Gerald Celente loses his paper gold

**PMBug** · 11-12-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote :

... Celente admitted in an interview Friday that he has been caught up in the MF Global client fund scandal. Apparently Celente, a major gold proponent, did not own phyzz, but rather COMEX gold futures contracts (paper), and would continually roll profits back into more futures paper! ...

More: http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/20...obal-gold.html

tsk tsk.

ancona · 11-12-2011, 04:21 PM

Umm..........isn't that traitorous??

DoChenRollingBearing · 11-12-2011, 05:09 PM

Whoops there Gerald!

That'll learn him, LOL...

Seraphim · 11-13-2011, 09:40 AM

I'll be honest - I would have thought Celente to be a physical holder.

DCFusor · 11-13-2011, 08:03 PM

Gheesh, even though I AM a fan of paper for trading purposes, even *I* hold some phyzz as a core holding. Duh.

More details would be good - how did he actually wind up losing his paper? Margin problem? Because I've not yet heard of any contracts not delivering anywhere - if you still had them...

**PMBug** · 11-14-2011, 06:32 AM

I think it is likely that the Silver Doctors may have made a tenuous assumption there. I'm guessing Mr. Celente does own some physical too.

DCF - He lost his paper because his trading accounts with MF Global got FUBARed.

DCFusor · 11-14-2011, 06:38 AM

Ah, that was my guess. So far...it seems no one has lost the gold attached to the paper, imaginary as that might be. If you've got the paper (again, so far) you've got the gold. There are reasons to think that might not be true forever, and I'm always on the lookout for that one, so I get out before it goes bad.
It does have the feeling of picking up pennies in front of a steamroller.

And of course, that's where phyzz comes in.

**dereksatkinson** · 11-14-2011, 08:02 AM

I don't really care for Celente but he certainly does have physical and wasn't shy about showing it.

**PMBug** · 11-15-2011, 08:08 AM

Gerald Celente hammers MF Global's "MF'ers" on Capital Account (11/14/11) - YouTube

**dereksatkinson** · 11-15-2011, 08:11 AM

oh snap.

At least it was only 6 figures.

I'm sure Celente has more than enough gold to make up for this loss.

Seraphim · 11-16-2011, 03:20 PM

He is a physical holder. He was using futures as a means to get MORE physical.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

:

I'll be honest - I would have thought Celente to be a physical holder.

Seraphim · 11-16-2011, 03:20 PM

It was a large portion of his retirement fun. It hurts him dearly.

Originally Posted by dereksatkinson

:

oh snap.

At least it was only 6 figures.

I'm sure Celente has more than enough gold to make up for this loss.

danda · 11-16-2011, 06:12 PM

Does anyone think that fallout from this MF Global thing will affect SLV or GLD? Why or why not?

**PMBug** · 11-17-2011, 06:08 AM

I think there are bigger issues with GLD ("Dilution Day", price suppression and see February 2011 entry) and SLV (price suppression), but yes, I think a lot of people are starting to see counterparty risks as a real concern. I would not be surprised if people were selling paper metal etfs and buying physical instead with the news.

white&yellow999 · 11-19-2011, 03:34 AM

I feel bad and I would be upset too but he should know there is always counterparty risk no matter how many years you have been doing it. At the point in time they took it, the gold was a mere digital number and they probably didn't have the physical gold yet to even deliver. At least he is getting the word out there to get the physical and not to trust these "mf'ers" (and i don't just mean MF global).

Silver_Bug · 12-27-2011, 05:57 PM

http://www.theundergroundinvestor.co...silver-prices/ pretty good analysis of paper gold and paper silver and why these paper games may be about to end.

ultimately, paper is not precious metal. paper is not metal. these games they played with Celente and thousands of others before him will end. nowadays large buyers go directly to the mine producers instead of the paper funds.

DCFusor · 12-27-2011, 06:26 PM

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...w-close-are-we

Points out the dangers of all paper when the authorities in a crony-capitalist society change the rules - JPM got money that should have been customer priority in any bankruptcy due to deliberate misreading of the law...so we know what happens when the next paper-house fails, precedent has been established that customer segregated funds needn't be anymore - this makes all paper, of any kind, no good in a crunch.

I doubt it reaches down to land/home deeds/titles anytime soon, but paper is just paper. It represents an agreement between humans. Should one decide not to keep his side of the bargain, all bets are off - this is why we had laws. But since we no longer seem to have much morality as a society, and bend the laws to suit the large over the small - the opposite of why they existed - paper is just trash.

It is just as illegal for the rich to sleep under bridges and steal bread as it is for the poor - but the rich don't care, because they don't want to do those things. And now, it's not actionable-illegal for the rich, while it remains so for the poor. Something to ponder. Corzine can steal a billion - OJ can murder his wife - examples abound...do you think you'd get away with any of that?

**dereksatkinson** · 12-28-2011, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by DCFusor

:

I doubt it reaches down to land/home deeds/titles anytime soon, but paper is just paper. It represents an agreement between humans. Should one decide not to keep his side of the bargain, all bets are off - this is why we had laws. But since we no longer seem to have much morality as a society, and bend the laws to suit the large over the small - the opposite of why they existed - paper is just trash.

I think it's quite a risk to not own your property outright.. Who is to say the bank you are making payments to even have legal rights to the deed in question?

Especially when you start having banks take on accounts of bailed out companies that are in lawsuits. The chances of someone else having a claim to your property is pretty damn high.

11-12-2011, 04:21 PM	#2
ancona PM Bug Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Waaay south Posts: 1,084 Liked: 343 times	Umm..........isn't that traitorous?? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter __________________ All things being equal, the simplest answer is quite often the correct answer - Occam

11-12-2011, 05:09 PM	#3
DoChenRollingBearing PM Bug Supporter Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: SE USA Posts: 549 Liked: 164 times	Whoops there Gerald! That'll learn him, LOL... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-13-2011, 09:40 AM	#4
Seraphim n00b Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 11 Liked: 0 times	I'll be honest - I would have thought Celente to be a physical holder. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-13-2011, 08:03 PM	#5
DCFusor PM Bug Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Floyd, Virginia Posts: 760 Liked: 396 times	Gheesh, even though I AM a fan of paper for trading purposes, even I hold some phyzz as a core holding. Duh. More details would be good - how did he actually wind up losing his paper? Margin problem? Because I've not yet heard of any contracts not delivering anywhere - if you still had them... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-14-2011, 06:32 AM	#6
PMBug Golden Cockroach Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault Posts: 1,926 Liked: 467 times	I think it is likely that the Silver Doctors may have made a tenuous assumption there. I'm guessing Mr. Celente does own some physical too. DCF - He lost his paper because his trading accounts with MF Global got FUBARed. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter __________________ The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu Do you have something to say about what I posted? Register and let your voice be heard.

11-14-2011, 06:38 AM	#7
DCFusor PM Bug Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Floyd, Virginia Posts: 760 Liked: 396 times	Ah, that was my guess. So far...it seems no one has lost the gold attached to the paper, imaginary as that might be. If you've got the paper (again, so far) you've got the gold. There are reasons to think that might not be true forever, and I'm always on the lookout for that one, so I get out before it goes bad. It does have the feeling of picking up pennies in front of a steamroller. And of course, that's where phyzz comes in. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-14-2011, 08:02 AM	#8
dereksatkinson Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 570 Liked: 166 times	I don't really care for Celente but he certainly does have physical and wasn't shy about showing it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-15-2011, 08:11 AM	#10
dereksatkinson Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 570 Liked: 166 times	oh snap. At least it was only 6 figures. I'm sure Celente has more than enough gold to make up for this loss. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-16-2011, 06:12 PM	#13
danda n00b Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1 Liked: 0 times	Does anyone think that fallout from this MF Global thing will affect SLV or GLD? Why or why not? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

11-17-2011, 06:08 AM	#14
PMBug Golden Cockroach Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault Posts: 1,926 Liked: 467 times	I think there are bigger issues with GLD ("Dilution Day", price suppression and see February 2011 entry) and SLV (price suppression), but yes, I think a lot of people are starting to see counterparty risks as a real concern. I would not be surprised if people were selling paper metal etfs and buying physical instead with the news. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter __________________ The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu Do you have something to say about what I posted? Register and let your voice be heard.

11-19-2011, 03:34 AM	#15
white&yellow999 Predaceous stink bug Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 169 Liked: 52 times	I feel bad and I would be upset too but he should know there is always counterparty risk no matter how many years you have been doing it. At the point in time *they* took it, the gold was a mere digital number and *they* probably didn't have the physical gold yet to even deliver. At least he is getting the word out there to get the physical and not to trust these "mf'ers" (and i don't just mean MF global). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter

12-27-2011, 05:57 PM	#16
Silver_Bug Fly on the wall Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Geneva Posts: 34 Liked: 7 times	http://www.theundergroundinvestor.co...silver-prices/ pretty good analysis of paper gold and paper silver and why these paper games may be about to end. ultimately, paper is not precious metal. paper is not metal. these games they played with Celente and thousands of others before him will end. nowadays large buyers go directly to the mine producers instead of the paper funds. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter Unobtanium likes this.

12-27-2011, 06:26 PM	#17
DCFusor PM Bug Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Floyd, Virginia Posts: 760 Liked: 396 times	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...w-close-are-we Points out the dangers of all paper when the authorities in a crony-capitalist society change the rules - JPM got money that should have been customer priority in any bankruptcy due to deliberate misreading of the law...so we know what happens when the next paper-house fails, precedent has been established that customer segregated funds needn't be anymore - this makes all paper, of any kind, no good in a crunch. I doubt it reaches down to land/home deeds/titles anytime soon, but paper is just paper. It represents an agreement between humans. Should one decide not to keep his side of the bargain, all bets are off - this is why we had laws. But since we no longer seem to have much morality as a society, and bend the laws to suit the large over the small - the opposite of why they existed - paper is just trash. It is just as illegal for the rich to sleep under bridges and steal bread as it is for the poor - but the rich don't care, because they don't want to do those things. And now, it's not actionable-illegal for the rich, while it remains so for the poor. Something to ponder. Corzine can steal a billion - OJ can murder his wife - examples abound...do you think you'd get away with any of that? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter Unobtanium likes this.