Different take on a Bug Out Location

[69mach351]

In the right circumstance, a boat would be great - it keeps you mobile, out of the way, and still gives you access to food. Just like anything else though, it will have its drawbacks that are mentioned above. It sounds like the country is going to be a crowded place if something ever happens

[DCFusor]

I believe a lot of people think that if they just somehow manage to show up in a rural area after a crisis with a buncha shiny they've got it made. They're going to find it's not for sale at any price in anything...they might just get turned back at the door.

It's even that way to a certain extent already. Takes awhile to become accepted to the point where anyone will help you buy any land out here. Basically, we love our land and don't want to sell it except to "good hands". And then it's more like, you have to wait for someone to die and make the land available at all from their heirs who've moved to cities and now just want to cash out daddies money. Could be that most of them think of daddie's farm they've not yet sold (prices are down everywhere so some are just waiting) is their own bugout...and sales of land will go down, not up.

Some guy who thinks money (of any sort) makes him superior or entitled to whatever he wants is going to get a big surprise - that only works when things are normal. Or when people feel they have a need for whatever you have to offer.
It's not like farmers don't stack themselves, FYI. They stack a lotta things.

EG, my own advice (and my money is very much where my mouth is), is bug out now if anything like that is in your plans - learn how to live more independently of the system now, it's not a trivial pursuit.

When we trade, we talk of crowded trades being dangerous - the exit ramp has a finite size (and so does the on ramp) - the same idea applies here.

[benjamen]

I believe a lot of people think that if they just somehow manage to show up in a rural area after a crisis with a buncha shiny they've got it made. They're going to find it's not for sale at any price in anything...they might just get turned back at the door.

It's even that way to a certain extent already. Takes awhile to become accepted to the point where anyone will help you buy any land out here. Basically, we love our land and don't want to sell it except to "good hands". And then it's more like, you have to wait for someone to die and make the land available at all from their heirs who've moved to cities and now just want to cash out daddies money. Could be that most of them think of daddie's farm they've not yet sold (prices are down everywhere so some are just waiting) is their own bugout...and sales of land will go down, not up.

Some guy who thinks money (of any sort) makes him superior or entitled to whatever he wants is going to get a big surprise - that only works when things are normal. Or when people feel they have a need for whatever you have to offer.
It's not like farmers don't stack themselves, FYI. They stack a lotta things.

EG, my own advice (and my money is very much where my mouth is), is bug out now if anything like that is in your plans - learn how to live more independently of the system now, it's not a trivial pursuit.

When we trade, we talk of crowded trades being dangerous - the exit ramp has a finite size (and so does the on ramp) - the same idea applies here.

Take a look at post #18 and read the article attached. It is an account of what happens when your country (Zimbabwe in this case) goes to hell and mobs and/or the government decides to kick you off your rural land. In this case the government made everything about race and essentially drove all the white land owners.

"These friends had plenty of stockpiled weapons and ammunition; they had water, food, and ham radio contact with nearby farms. But what they didn't have was the hundreds (note this is what I was told, so I am unsure if this number is an exaggeration) of people that the mob that came for their farm had. Their guns were useless against this large mob. They couldn't just shoot indiscriminately into the crowd without drawing the ire of the military [which was tacitly supporting the farm invasions]. Shots fired to try to disperse the crowd led them to charge. The sons at the farm were seriously beaten up trying to stand their ground."

“...at least 90 per cent of formerly white-owned farms - more than 20 million acres - lie fallow since Mr Mugabe began chasing whites off their rural properties, while agricultural exports, which once earned 40 per cent of Zimbabwe's foreign exchange, have collapsed, and more than half the population needs food aid.”

[69mach351]

Take a look at post #18 and read the article attached. It is an account of what happens when your country (Zimbabwe in this case) goes to hell and mobs and/or the government decides to kick you off your rural land. In this case the government made everything about race and essentially drove all the white land owners.

"These friends had plenty of stockpiled weapons and ammunition; they had water, food, and ham radio contact with nearby farms. But what they didn't have was the hundreds (note this is what I was told, so I am unsure if this number is an exaggeration) of people that the mob that came for their farm had. Their guns were useless against this large mob. They couldn't just shoot indiscriminately into the crowd without drawing the ire of the military [which was tacitly supporting the farm invasions]. Shots fired to try to disperse the crowd led them to charge. The sons at the farm were seriously beaten up trying to stand their ground."

“...at least 90 per cent of formerly white-owned farms - more than 20 million acres - lie fallow since Mr Mugabe began chasing whites off their rural properties, while agricultural exports, which once earned 40 per cent of Zimbabwe's foreign exchange, have collapsed, and more than half the population needs food aid.”

A good example of acting on emotion rather than with reason. That tends to bite people more times than not.

[DCFusor]

Well, "the US isn't Zimbabwe" in any close comparison. We don't have a zillion repressed people who live to "get even" with the hated rich farmers, for one thing, and while I don't consider this a terribly moral place by absolute standards, I do find that people are better than their governments (this is especially borne out by the self-selection on google+ hangouts much of the time - sure there's plenty of losers, but also some great people out there).

This is a big country. Where I live, you couldn't even collect such a mob without hiring tour buses - even if they had cars, there wouldn't be enough places to put them to get a big group together to attack you -or at least me with my own prep. The nearest city in any direction that could contain such a "zombie hoard" is 50 miles away - farther in every other direction. So, that doesn't figure high on my personal risk assessment.

We also wouldn't have the army defending the bad guys...no way.

Sure in Zimbabwe where you have just a couple of hated rich sitting right next to 100k+ totally disenfranchised people - walking distance - you've got a recipe for that kind of trouble. Here, the only people within walking distance are 5-6 like minded neighbors, and the entire county only has about 20k souls. Just very very different.

There are only a couple of major roads into here from "civilization" at any rate. Remember ancona's fantasy of simply whacking the choke points? There's more than one way to achieve that since in this case, they all cross rivers on small bridges.
One lane each way. Not too hard to shut off if we wanted to do that, but it's enough of a choke point into what is a lotta square miles that the chance of any concerted action developing against one farm is nil. Most of 'em take considerable effort to even find, much less be a focal point of some attack.

[ancona]

We have our plan in place in case shit gets to real do deal when the balloon goes up. Those plans include a track hoe to tear up access roads, which will slow down all but the very motivated. Our vehhicles are not really set up to deal with true off road conditions, which I intend to artificially create. One of only two easy routes in to our area can be schwacked at the base of a bridge on what is essentially a causeway across the lower St. Johns at a very big lake. Wipe out that and there is no way in or out.

[benjamen]

My worry is not a traditional idea of a full blow SHTF situation. It is more along the lines of things get just bad enough (accidentally or on purpose) to allow people to accept a more facist form of government. Then you get things like this:

1) anti home gardens and off the grid living:
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/06/...agents-of.html

2) anti privacy and cash usage:
http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-pr...letin_08112011

3) anti abortion, pro gold, ect. = domestic terrorists:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/police-t...errorists.html

4) property-rights activists = domestic terrorists:
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/mar...ningmanual.htm

For good illustration, go look at the Yahoo homepage's current poll. Over half the votes think it is a good idea to have drones patrolling the U.S. skies.

[DoChenRollingBearing]

Yikes! Half of our people LIKE drones...? Oh boy...

[Jay]

I see many people talk about the idea of having a seperate property far away from cities to retreat to called a Bug Out Location (BOL). Assuming you live near water, has anyone ever thought of a sailboat as a BOL?

For similar, or even cheaper, price of a land based BOL, you could buy a sailboat capable of sailing far away from the SHTF incident.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/

Discuss!

there are very many people banding together in sailboats for SHTF scenarios. Some can be found on PeakOil.com and Malthusia.com. And they are HEAVILY armed. However, Malthusia is by invitation only. PS It might behoove you to find out who Reverend Malthus was:

you truly can't eat gold or silver (although I have some)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus

[rblong2us]

you truly can't eat gold or silver (although I have some)

did you just swallow it whole ?

[DCFusor]

I personally found this amusing:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/surviv...lypse-lifeboat

So, how to test that a tsunami doesn't just crack this thing in half? Concrete boats!
Join the Donner party!

[rblong2us]

I personally found this amusing:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/surviv...lypse-lifeboat

So, how to test that a tsunami doesn't just crack this thing in half? Concrete boats!
Join the Donner party!

Nothing wrong with that design DCF.
Anything that would smash open a nearly circular reinforced concrete section would almost certainly break any other similarly priced hull design.
Its very stable, sits low in the water, doesnt mind total immersion for a few minutes and is quick to self right. Everyone inside it remains dry, has enough air to breath and will not get beaten to jelly by the pods likely movements.

Ok its attempting to plan for a situation that i will not be worrying about
but theres a lot of predictions for such events, One referenced on ZH recently from Clif High, whose podcast regarding this subject and a bunch of work done by teams of remote viewers can be found here -

http://halfpasthuman.com/index.html

remote viewers work here -

http://www.farsight.org/demo/Demo200...008_Page1.html

[Jay]

did you just swallow it whole ?

my neighbor turned blue from colloidal silver....

[Jay]

Nothing wrong with that design DCF.
Anything that would smash open a nearly circular reinforced concrete section would almost certainly break any other similarly priced hull design.
Its very stable, sits low in the water, doesnt mind total immersion for a few minutes and is quick to self right. Everyone inside it remains dry, has enough air to breath and will not get beaten to jelly by the pods likely movements.

Ok its attempting to plan for a situation that i will not be worrying about
but theres a lot of predictions for such events, One referenced on ZH recently from Clif High, whose podcast regarding this subject and a bunch of work done by teams of remote viewers can be found here -

http://halfpasthuman.com/index.html

remote viewers work here -

http://www.farsight.org/demo/Demo200...008_Page1.html

asteroid strike soon?:

So how big will the meteor be that gives us that global coastal event? About abou 1,350 feet across figures G.A. Stewart (with more detail on the Peoplenomics site). Stu's website The Age of Desolation is starting to line up with the language hints from Clif's work to some degree. Odd that Nostradamus would hint at the size of it with some precision. To share more of Stu's views:



Nostradamus Quatrain I-69
A great round mountain of seven stades, [4247 feet]
When peace will end, war, famine, and flood:
It will roll far and sink great countries,
Even the ancient ones, of great foundations.

A stade is six-hundred and six feet and nine inches. Since Nostradamus mentions a great round mountain, I presume he is mentioning a circumference of 4,247 feet 3 inches, which gives the meteorite a radius of approximately 676 feet.

linky:
http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

[DCFusor]

Just because it wouldn't also break anything else doesn't mean this one is good.
Sections would likely separate when hit with 60 mph water wave from a tsunami, and in fact, lots of stuff in Japan better built than this did break.

Then what? Even if you live packed like sardines, it's no bugout, which is why I mentioned the Donner party. Doesn't even look like there's a place to take a dump, much less enough food to eat for a buncha people packed like sardines for even one day.

I'm just generally amused by the thought that you can live on a boat - I've done it for weeks on end, and boy, you really have to want to unless it's a cruise ship, and those are well re-supplied every few days normally. Eg utterly useless in a SHTF situation.

[rblong2us]

DCF - i read the article as it being a lifeboat rather than a bugout
and agree that its not a good bugout

Why would the sections separate ?
They are connected with tensioned steel cables and nice fat compressible gaskets between the sections
A very shock resistant design that i would be happy to drop off a big waterfall with me inside ...........

Sure all designs have limits. This one is very cost effective and just like a bottle in its behaviour apart from a bit of weight to keep it from rotating axially.

So if you are concerned about a possible big water displacement event, you can either find a place on higher ground and hope its high enough, organise a cheap but sturdy lifeboat and hope you get picked up and taken somewhere theres food n shelter or accept its too big to plan for and accept the potential consequences of not preparing for such a possibility.

I suspect for most its 1 or 3.

Jay - While i find the predictive stuff interesting, i try to apply the 'fear filter'

I choose to immerse myself in positive ideas and avoid things that make us fearful of the future, mainly because fear is the main weapon of control.

Which arguably begs the question why am i fully loaded with pm's and multiple bugouts ?
Think its a bit of 'Trust in God but tie up your camel' and i just enjoy being a bit different ........

[sthprkmp5]

If there was a deserted island near by ,and you could sail to it, then it would be great.

[KMS]

Any body of freshwater, moving or not typically has some form of human interference be it a lock, a dam, levee, etc. You run the gambit of being trapped within a certain range of movement, unless you're on the open sea. If you are on the open sea, you better have a big boat. I'd hope you were also very well versed in surviving inclement weather if on the open sea. That shit can get pretty choppy, even just on a big lake, like the Great Lakes. The bigger that you are, the slower you're going to move and be more easily caught if 'pirates' in fast moving small intercepting craft see you, which is easy because of a lack of concealment.

Not saying its a bad idea, but man, sure seems to add a lot more troubles and worries. Wouldn't suit me anyway. Just saying.

[silvercoinrn]

Hard to defend a boat. Its hard to live to far out to sea. Lots of other people will be on their boats. and only a sail boat would be worth it, than what if there is no wind. too many possibilities.
I wanna be in the country hiddin. id love one of those old Nuke buildings in the mid west.

[benjamen]

Hard to defend a boat. Its hard to live to far out to sea. Lots of other people will be on their boats. and only a sail boat would be worth it, than what if there is no wind. too many possibilities.
I wanna be in the country hiddin. id love one of those old Nuke buildings in the mid west.

Nice long discussion about the same topic here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/genera...-out-boat.html

Essentially, a bug out boat is nice if the bad situation is restricted to your area or country. If your country is going bananas, quietly leave for another country.

Also, if the bad situation is your personal finances, you can always live on the boat.