Obamacare to cause rate of insured to drop

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Wow, so many issues with this system...

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-briefed-earlier-health-website-problems-001300815--sector.html

"Republican lawmakers who oppose Obamacare released a report and recommendations prepared by McKinsey & Co at the government's request in March 2013.

It cited, among other things, a rushed process that left insufficient time for testing and a focus by officials on getting people enrolled versus making the system work right.

The consequence, it said, could be system failures that could make enrollment slow or at times impossible for consumers, which is exactly what happened.

Questioned about the McKinsey study, White House spokesman Jay Carney said the president had been briefed on it in the spring."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101211556?__...yahoo&doc=101211556|Senior official drops Oba

"A crucial system for making payments to insurers from people who enroll in that federal Obamacare marketplace has yet to be built, a senior government IT official admitted Tuesday."

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-exp...care-gov-security-bugs-144729835--sector.html

"President Barack Obama's HealthCare.gov site is riddled with security flaws that put user data of millions of people at risk and it should be shut down until fixed, several technology experts warned lawmakers on Tuesday."

"The experts said the site needed to be completely rebuilt to run more efficiently, making it easier to protect. They said HealthCare.gov runs on 500 million lines of code, or 25 times the size of Facebook, one of the world's busiest sites."

"When your code base is that large it's going to be indefensible,"

"In written testimony, Kennedy said it would take a minimum of seven to 12 months to fix the problems with the site shut down, given the site's complexity and size."
 
benjamen said:
"The experts said the site needed to be completely rebuilt to run more efficiently, making it easier to protect. They said HealthCare.gov runs on 500 million lines of code, or 25 times the size of Facebook, one of the world's busiest sites."

"When your code base is that large it's going to be indefensible,"

"In written testimony, Kennedy said it would take a minimum of seven to 12 months to fix the problems with the site shut down, given the site's complexity and size."
Click to expand...

It's a safe bet that in another seven to 12 months it will be over a billion lines of code and still not working right. :flushed:
 
I'm gonna have to call bullshit on the 500 million lines of code. There is no way it's that big.
 
I don't know but they've already written over 20,000 pages of new regulations just for health care. 500 million lines might be on the low side .:flail:
 
"Lines of code" could include comments and whitespace. 500 million lines could easily mean 10 - 100 million lines of actual instruction code.
 
It doesn't matter how many lines of code the thing has, I still can't afford to buy it. The rates are ridiculous, include far too much bullshit and fluff crap that i neither want nor will ever need. I pray this thing explodes in to a million little bits.
 
I think the whole country should call every doctor they know on the same day and ask for an appointment. Call it "Affordable Care Day" :D
 
Obamacare Train Wreck

...

It is at least as bad as it looks. Almost every day I hear more about what a disaster it is. So, I dug around Zero Hedge as well as posted up some stuff I heard on the radio.

"This is going to hurt." Yes, it will. One guy I know lost his family's medical insurance (from Aetna).

http://tinyurl.com/m9trlj5
 
http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-signs-up-its-first-dog--so-there-s-that--at-least-161850233.html

"Shane Smith of Fort Collins, Colo., recently found a little surprise when he signed up for coverage under the Affordable Care Act. After proceeding through all the registration hurdles with Connect for Health Colorado, he learned that his dog Baxter had gotten insured, not Smith himself."
:rotflmbo::rotflmbo::rotflmbo:


"Smith said he guessed the mistake happened when he gave Baxter's name as one of the security questions."
:doodoo:
 
I just heard the girls at a local spot we go for lunch talking about their insurance. When our waitress came around again I asked her about it and what she told me was infuriating. Apparently, these folks had a decent insurance plan through their work because the owner has five different places and could negotiate good rates for them. As a bonus, he split the costs with the employees. Now, their plan is cancelled and the owner is unable to split the premiums any more because they quadrupled under Obamacare. She was nearly in tears because the alternative is Medicaid for her and her kid, because she doesn't make enough to get a better plan, and she knows what a total horror story Medicaid will be.

Since I refuse to sign up, I cannot see what the ultimate cost will be for me and mine, but at two of the sites I went to that aggregate all the prices for published plans, I have to shell out a huge chunk of my after tax income. That's on top of paying 27% of my money to the government for Fed withholding, SSI, Medicare, FUTA, and SUTA.

At the end of the day, I feel like there's never enough left over anyhow, so this is just a kick in the balls for me. When the full force of this law kicks in, this country is in for one hell of a shock-wave. The amount of money this will pull out of our economy will cripple business. When big business gets the bill for insurance demanded by unions and municipalities get their bill for state and local government employees, the backlash will be biblical. This will go a long way toward emptying union states of businesses, because what little competitiveness remaining will be lost to Obamacare costs doubling their health care contributions.
 
PMBug said:
"Lines of code" could include comments and whitespace. 500 million lines could easily mean 10 - 100 million lines of actual instruction code.
Click to expand...

I was looking at one of the javascript files from the site and believe it or not, they did have hundreds of blank lines.
 
"Lines of code" could include comments and whitespace. 500 million lines could easily mean 10 - 100 million lines of actual instruction code.

Well, as a long time programmer, largely of ring 0 drivers and embedded code in uP's, I've thought for a long time that a zillion lines of code tells you not how hard some one worked at any stage, but how lazy they were.

Good code is short, well organized, and compact. It might take longer per line to write - since a lot of your time is in design, not typing, so the result will be fast, efficient, and short. It's a horrible metric used as it is, that LOC crap. I used to reward my employees for getting it done with less, like you would an *any* engineering firm. Any fool can do for a dollar what a real engineer can get done for a nickel.

Or in the case of coding - copy-paste, use libraries you don't understand and so forth - cost and LOC go to the sky, but then you can use what I call "monkey programmers" you don't have to actually pay a living wage to. That's evidently the case here, along with all the problems with trying to get a bunch of legacy dingleberries to talk to one another, since they are all in-house white elephants of different houses. I'm glad this is not my job, but gheez - my team (back when I had them) could have done a heck of a lot better, faster and for a lot less money, and it wouldn't have the gaping security holes (client side validation? Heck, that was in the "don't do that, stupid" books a decade ago. The big stunning example of that was someone who downloaded the source from a Victoria's secret page, changed the JS to allow orders for negative numbers of sweaters, and posted it back to their site - and got a refund credit to their CC...LMAO.

I'd guess part of the problem (since I have done government work) is that no single person really has the whole picture. They have a penchant for trying to divide jobs up into lots of little ones, so we have the classic "take 9 women to make a baby in a month" set of issues, as well as a bunch of time spent making sure those pieces are all well enough specified so that they actually talk to one another correctly and efficiently. Which takes at least one person, if not a team, that understands the entire problem space and is responsible for the system design. Even then, you run into the problem of people not understanding the spec fully, and kludging at the keyboard till something appears to work, not testing the edge cases, not even knowing what they are, and so on - even if you don't have monkeys for programmers you have this issue.

At any rate, I'm not going to sign up to pay half my income out of pocket before the first dime of payback happens, not ever (hey, it would only be 1/3 or 1/4 if I was a 25 yo non smoker with no existing conditions, a state I've never been in). Put me in jail if you like. I don't care anymore - they can cook for me for awhile, I'm getting tired of doing it for the last 45 years. You gotta be kidding.

The revolt starts now.
 
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Volunteers may count as employees that require medical coverage....
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog...volunteer_firefighter_companies_to_close.html

"Since the Obamacare law doesn't specifically carve out an exemption for them, fire departments where 50 or more people work - either as volunteers or officially as employees - are expected to provide health insurance for every one of them."

"Nationally, the Federal Emergency Management Agency reports that volunteer fire departments make up 71 per cent of America's 1 million firehouses."

:noevil:
 
benjamen said:
Volunteers may count as employees that require medical coverage....
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog...volunteer_firefighter_companies_to_close.html

"Since the Obamacare law doesn't specifically carve out an exemption for them, fire departments where 50 or more people work - either as volunteers or officially as employees - are expected to provide health insurance for every one of them."

"Nationally, the Federal Emergency Management Agency reports that volunteer fire departments make up 71 per cent of America's 1 million firehouses."

:noevil:
Click to expand...

I'm sure they won't raise our taxes/sarc. Our town of 5000 has the largest fire department you can imagine. They are nearly finished with the new four square block fire complex. It's ridiculous. Add that to the mile square County sheriff/Burnet police department/fire department/EMS complex a couple of miles away (we need all these new vehicles to respond to the breathing problem calls from the Section 8 houses). The lady down the street has to be transported once a week to Round Rock (thirty miles away) for breathing treatments. She broke the floor out of the ambulance (the ambulance driver told me). grrrrr.
 
mike said:
I was looking at one of the javascript files from the site and believe it or not, they did have hundreds of blank lines.
Click to expand...

A reasonable amount of white space is normal when writing code to make it easier to read and debug. Excessive white space and/or sloppy coding practices (especially spaghetti code) is a red flag. Such code never works correctly simply because there is no way to know about, much less test for, all of the possible places where it could break.

Except for pages with minimal javascript, all runtime javascript files (NO MATTER HOW LONG) should ALWAYS be condensed into ONE, and ONLY ONE, line to save bandwidth and to speed up execution on the host computers. In addition ALL javascript variables (with extremely RARE exceptions) in that one line of code should NEVER be more than two characters long.

White space and long variable names in runtime javascript code are signs of INCOMPETENT programmers which apparently are very common in government work. Such programmers would never work for me.

Bottom line is that those umpteen thousands of lines of javascript code should all be on a SINGLE line.

For those of you who do not know, I have been a computer programmer for 33 years (years before the PC existed), and I would never allow massive uncondensed javascript out into the wild for several reasons. One, condensed code is much harder to reverse engineer, thereby lessening theft of code and ideas. Two, condensed code runs faster on the host computer. And, three, condensed code uses less bandwidth (loads faster and costs less) when run.
 
mmerlinn, can you imagine designing a website like this...
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...bamacare-website-plagued-by-security-problems

"The ObamaCare exchange at Healthcare.gov is so insecure that multiple cyber-security experts and lawmakers are calling for it to be shut down."

"At the federal site, the issues are even more severe. Indeed, security for the controversial site is so poor that top analysts in the field say it appears to have been built without considering user privacy at all."

“It's really hard to go back and fix the security around it because security wasn't built into it”

"Even basic industry standards on security have not been followed, they said. Incredibly, despite strong pressure, the Obama administration also refused to adopt rules requiring federal officials to notify Americans whose private information has been breached via the government health-insurance website. In other words, anyone who uses the ObamaCare site could have their personal data stolen — and never even know about it"

"ObamaCare site participants essentially must agree to have “no reasonable expectation of privacy” when it comes to their most private and sensitive information."
 
Insane price raises for Obamacare preditcted for next year...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-obamacare-premiums-rise-094500177.html

Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini first raised concerns over a potential rate shock in December, when he told investors that “in some markets,” individual-market premium increases “could go as high as 100 percent.”

one unnamed insurer expects that his company will "triple its rates next year on the Obamacare exchange.”

"Insurers are required to submit their proposed rates later this spring, so by early fall, we will know what the rates are for next year."

:flushed:
 
I have a few employees that signed up early and didn't get their premiums until February. Needless to say, none of them payed and all of them have found it impossible to cancel.

To add insult to injury, one guy said that the non-payment shows up on his credit report, screwing him over again. Folks, this was all by design, with the socialist in chief following Cloward Piven to the letter. Destroy the economy and the people will all come begging to the state to save them.
 
That's the problem for the last 80+ years, anytime there is a problem or perceived problem, lets create a new department, pass a law, appoint a czar, make an executive order, etc. The govt. should be more like a referee ensuring that everyone is playing by the same rules and fighting fair, not trying to prop up one class or another.
 
benjamen said:
Insane price raises for Obamacare preditcted for next year...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/4-reasons-obamacare-premiums-rise-094500177.html

Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini first raised concerns over a potential rate shock in December, when he told investors that “in some markets,” individual-market premium increases “could go as high as 100 percent.”

one unnamed insurer expects that his company will "triple its rates next year on the Obamacare exchange.”

"Insurers are required to submit their proposed rates later this spring, so by early fall, we will know what the rates are for next year."

:flushed:
Click to expand...

Just in time for mid-term elections. The idiots that passed this abomination have got to be shaking in their boots for fear of losing this election.
 
Good! I hope they lose the senate to a super majority of republicans. In addition, I pray we keep the house. Also, gubernatorial elections are this year, so we may as well go for the clean sweep. With both the house and senate, Obama becomes neutered in the face of congressional opposition, which could use a majority in the senate to disembowel all or most of his dictatorial presidential orders.
 
I am sure the republicans will win the house, but not a super majority, and they will keep the house, unfortunately they will also keep that useless pile of tanning product as speaker of the house. The mainstream media will do their job to make sure and say that any problems with barrycare are "teeny tiny" and are the republicans and the tea party's fault anyway. So most moderates will still give the dems the benefit of the medias lack of doubt, or just stay home, and that will help stave off a complete republican landslide this Nov.
 
While Boehner may possibly keep his spot as speaker, the very real possibility exists that republicans will oust him and replace him with someone that won't bend over and take it up the ass on immigration and amnesty [which had better not happen, or this economy will never recover].
 
Yeah, the reason the rates have to go up is that healthy people who pay, but don't get anything back are saying screw this, en masse. Like myself. They want essentially more than I live on - all expenses combined (sans my fusion hobby) for insurance that I'm pretty unlikely to use, if the past few decades is any indication. We're not all as dumb as they seem to think. It might even be a correlation with health - smart people don't get sick as much? Because their behavior is different?

And if I did use it, I'd be out of pocket for more than a year of my total income before it pays the first dime, after the deductibles/copay. Why would I volunteer for that? Even getting all my ribs crushed in an accident or a mauser bolt through my face didn't cost that much. And that covers all my serious injuries in over 3 decades - total cost of them is less than one year of O care for me.

And if I get evil cancer, well, they don't know how to cure that - just charge in the millions range to attempt it, and fail - maybe extend a life a few months in utter misery, oh wow. I'll just die in that case (anyway!).
 
We just received our compliance kit from our accountant. Obamacare will now cause me to have to hire at least one person [if not two] to comply with these byzantine regulations.

Thanks Obama!
 
ancona said:
We just received our compliance kit from our accountant. Obamacare will now cause me to have to hire at least one person [if not two] to comply with these byzantine regulations.

Thanks Obama!
Click to expand...

And don't forget that you will either need to hire a nanny for those people or be a nanny yourself. You can't win.
 
ancona said:
We just received our compliance kit from our accountant. Obamacare will now cause me to have to hire at least one person [if not two] to comply with these byzantine regulations.

Thanks Obama!
Click to expand...

Now they'll just say "See barrycare CREATES jobs, not kill them!" The liberal messaging machine could get a wet noodle sitting in pudding to spin like a top.
 
Data on what people are actually paying is starting to come out:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-obamacare-subsidy-3-312-102000738.html

"Monthly premiums for silver plans – the standard insurance policy sold on the exchanges – cost an average of $345 a month this year for people who did not qualify for subsidies, a new analysis from the administration shows."

"However, for the overwhelming majority of Obamacare enrollees (87 percent) who did qualify for financial assistance, the average monthly premium on the silver plan costs about $69."

Shall we do a little math? On average, the government is paying (0.87 * (345-69)) = 69.6% of each person's silver plan premium.

"So far this year the federal government has paid out $4.7 billion in subsidies. The Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation currently estimate that the ACA’s insurance provisions will cost just under 41.1 trillion over 10 years."

Let me get this straight, the official forecast (which is almost always low) is predicting (41.1 / 10) = 4.11 trillion dollars per year in new costs?!!?!

Keep in mind, the total federal 2013 budget was...
Revenue: $2.9 trillion
Outlays: $3.8 trillion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget

We are predicting this boondoggle is going to more than double the entire federal expenditure?!!?!?!
:flushed:
 
I think trillion was supposed to be billion. Latest I could find directly from the CBO:
... The agencies currently project a net cost of $36 billion for 2014, $5 billion less than the previous projection for the year; and $1,383 billion for the 2015–2024 period, ...
Click to expand...

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45231
 
I know of four sizeable local businesses that recently changed their production model to the part-time method. Employees that once got forty hours and were provided a bare bones insurance plan for free, or a much more inclusive one for about forty bucks every other week, will now be on the Obamacare program. Since they no longer get forty hours, these people will qualify for Medicaid. Ain't Obamacare grand??
 
Didn't want to start a new thread so I thought I'd drop this here.

Federal judge strikes down preventative coverage requirements, setting up latest Obamacare battle​


WASHINGTON – A federal judge in Texas blocked enforcement Thursday of preventative health care mandates included in the Affordable Care Act, setting up the latest legal brawl over Obamacare and threatening to reduce free access to HIV-prevention pills, screenings for cancer and other services.


__________________________________________________________-

As for the thread title, "Obamacare to cause rate of insured to drop", it had the opposite effect.
 
benjamen said:
The entire basic idea of insurance is risk pooling. If the pool of insured shrinks, there are less people to share the risk and the price goes up. If those remaining in the pool are riskier people, the cost of sharing that risk goes up.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Therefor the very idea of "health insurance" is kinda dumb.

After all, it's the only kind of insurance that once people have it, they want to use it. With any other kind of insurance, having to file a claim is the LAST thing a person wnats to have to do. it'll mean that either your house got damaged, your car got damaged, or someone you (prolly) care for has died.

However with health insurance, virtually everyone either has, or will have a need to go to the doctor (or worse, the hospital) and everyone with insurance would like to be able to get treatment at lower cost than they would if they had no insurance.

What it ends up being, is a system that requires patients to pay not only for a medical care system, but also support an insurance system too.
....and do so while thinking they are getting a deal on the medical portion of their bill.


If ya want affordable healthcare, all they (gov) has to do is to outlaw health insurance. Once that cash cow goes away, health care costs in America will come back to Earth.
 
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