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Old 02-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #1
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World’s biggest gold storage company dumps US citizens

http://www.sovereignman.com/importan...itizens-10958/

“We are currently experiencing rapid and substantial changes in the general regulations within this business. The changes mainly relate to the tax structures and taxation systems of various countries. As a consequence of these changes VIA MAT INTERNATIONAL has taken the decision to stop offering this service at its vault [sic] outside of the US to private customers with potential US-tax liability.”

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Old 02-22-2013, 11:08 AM   #2
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That is a big deal.

Please explain to me how pm holdings of US citizens are taxed.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by swissaustrian View Post:
That is a big deal.

Please explain to me how pm holdings of US citizens are taxed.
If I sell precious metals for more than I bought them, it is considered a capital gain and I would be subject to capital gains taxes.

Example:
Buy 10 ounces of gold at $1,000 an ounce
Sell 10 ounces of gold at $2,000 an ounce
say my capital gains tax rate is 20% (this can vary for several reasons)
I would owe: 10*(2000-1000)*0.2 = $2,000 in taxes despite the fact that the majority of the increase in the USD to gold price is due to the USD being printed by the U.S. government.

The other big issue would be the fact that for about 40 years of the 20th centurty the U.S. government actually made it illegal to own gold in the U.S. The smart people held their gold outside the country to get around this problem.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #4
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:08 PM   #5
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Bullionvault and Goldmoney use Viamat vaults in London, Zurich and possibly elsewhere...........

I wonder how that aspect will work out ?

Could be a lot of people selling )-:
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
Bullionvault and Goldmoney use Viamat vaults in London, Zurich and possibly elsewhere...........

I wonder how that aspect will work out ?

Could be a lot of people selling )-:
As far as I understand, BV and GM offer pool accounts, ie you only have a claim on the metal?
If that's true than the companies own it. They're not US based as far as I know. So there shouldn't be an issue?
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:57 PM   #7
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Some posters at ZH are bashing this article as beeing untrue and just an ad for a company in Singapore. This might be true, from the article above:

Quote :
For nearly a year, I’ve been encouraging our premium subscribers to store their gold with a Singapore-based company that has the most advanced, transparent operation on the planet.

They are 100% Singaporean, and their US regulatory exposure is effectively zero.

They’re also one of the only firms on the planet that actually tests the gold it sells (and stores) through three different methods, including X-ray and ultrasound. This way you know that your gold is, in fact, gold… and not tungsten.

Best of all, they’re launching a new service to receive your existing gold at their facilities in Singapore. So if you’ve just been shut out of ViaMat, or you want to transfer your gold from another facility that has heavy US exposure, these guys will be able to do it.

They are, without a doubt, the best solution out there. And Sovereign Man: Confidential members have received unprecedented discounts and exclusive access to new services offered by this firm.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:51 PM   #8
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What a mess. Shame on Sovereign Man if he did just shill for a company by printing fake news targeted at another. That's a low blow.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:49 PM   #9
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This is mearly the Swiss trying to keep the integrity of their secret banking system intact.
They want their foreign U.S. holders in unallocated accounts to find allocated accounts because the Swiss banking system is obligated now to rat out U.S. taxpayers that have Gold in unallocated accounts. U.S. holders of Gold that have allocated accounts in Swiss banks are obligated to rat themselves out. Shifting the responsibility to the Gold owner.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by stockjockee View Post:
This is mearly the Swiss trying to keep the integrity of their secret banking system intact.
They want their foreign U.S. holders in unallocated accounts to find allocated accounts because the Swiss banking system is obligated now to rat out U.S. taxpayers that have Gold in unallocated accounts. U.S. holders of Gold that have allocated accounts in Swiss banks are obligated to rat themselves out. Shifting the responsibility to the Gold owner.
I don't know if that's really the reason. Viamat doesn't offer unallocated gold storage as far as I know (quick google search didn't get me any results). I think the only way to have UNallocated gold at Viamat is via Bullionvault or Goldmoney.
In terms of Switzerland cooperating with the IRS on bank and brokerage accounts, yes that's true (and a tragedy). I doubt that non-banking institutions are part of the new tax treaty, however.

EDIT: also note that the letter below doesn't just mention storage inside Switzerland, it mentions any storage outside the US.

Last edited by swissaustrian; 02-22-2013 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
What a mess. Shame on Sovereign Man if he did just shill for a company by printing fake news targeted at another. That's a low blow.
I don't have 100% proof for that but it certainly looks that way. Maybe we should ask Viamat directly what this letter is all about:



I'm not from the US, so I'm not the best person to ask. If somebody here at pmbug wants to do it, go ahead
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:13 PM   #12
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Goldmoney customers are NOT affected by this:

From Viamat's letter to Goldmoney (http://www.goldmoney.com/documents/US-VIAMAT.pdf )
Quote :
This decision has no impact whatsoever on the existing services VIA MAT
INTERNATIONAL is offering to your company, we wanted to share this information with
you at first hand to avoid any potential uncertainties
Goldmoney's FAQ:
Quote :
Are US residents allowed to hold metal with GoldMoney at VIA MAT vaults?

Yes. Although VIA MAT has changed its customer acceptance policy regarding individuals with potential US tax liabilities, this will not affect individuals who have an indirect relationship with VIA MAT through GoldMoney.
http://www.goldmoney.com/faq/are-us-...gmrefcode=gata
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Old 02-25-2013, 05:02 AM   #13
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well that is very inconsistent, in my view: companies like BullionVault, GoldMoney, they claim, that you own ALLOCATED gold, in that sense, I cannot see the difference if the gold is stored via intermediary or by the person directly???

OR

Is it just VIA MAT covering their arse - sending letter to all customers, that "if you are liable to US taxation, you cannot store your gold with us". Question is, if you DON'T turn yourself in, will they go after their existing customers, and start actively researching if any one of them is US Tax-liable?? I do not think so.

OK, now imagine, IRS knocks on their door in some later time, and asks them to turn all US tax liable people in. And VIA MAT, in response, sends them a very polite letter, which contents says (in a slightly different wording, I suppose): "dear sirs, we don't have any US tax-liable customers, in fact, due to your fascists policies, we must've ask them all to take their business somewhere else, so why don't you do the same, good day"
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:33 AM   #14
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WSJ now reporting this story. Interesting bit:
Quote :
...
Via Mat's response to shifting financial regulations comes just weeks after Swiss banks USB and Credit Suisse adjusted their gold storage fees to encourage customers to hold individual storage accounts. Previously, the banks pooled their clients' gold and kept it on their own balance sheets, but post-financial crisis regulations prompted the shift by requiring banks to set aside more capital to back such assets.
...
http://gata.org/node/12278
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