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Old 01-17-2013, 04:49 PM   #1
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Does Revelations talk about the collapse of fiat?

I might have too much Federal Reserve and Fiat money on the brain, but reading Revelations 17, it really seemed to me that the lady it refers to could be the statue of liberty and Manhattan, New York and the beast it refers to could be the federal reserve and the fiat money system.

This was made more plausible by the fact that in revelations 18,
the disaster described in revelations 17 is clearly one that affects merchants and merchandising - I.e. a great financial disaster and collapse.

It might seem implausible that God would have much against the fiat money system and the Federal reserve but then I remembered that the only time we ever saw Jesus get extremely angry and use physical aggression was here...

Quote :
"And they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the Temple [see Temples] and began to drive out those who sold and those who bought in the Temple, and He overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons; and He would not allow any one to carry anything through the Temple. And He taught, and said to them, "Is it not written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations'? But you have made it a den of robbers." (Mark 11:15-17 RSV)
An explanation for this is given here... http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000315.htm

Quote :
During the time of the New Testament, Jerusalem was under Roman occupation (see Ancient Empires - Rome), and Roman money was in common use. The Jewish authorities however required that only Hebrew money was acceptable payment for the Temple tax. So, money changers were allowed to set up tables and benches (the English word bank is derived from the word bench) for themselves in the court of the Gentiles where they exchanged not just local Roman money, but also foreign currency from distant travelers, for shekels. Along with them were peddlers who sold animals, birds and various items for worship and sacrifice.
The money changers profited greatly from the exchange rates that they charged worshipers for shekels to pay the priests, and then from the priests to convert it back into Roman money - they were "cashing in" from both ends. They also profited exorbitantly from loans that they made - with interest rates up to 300 per cent. While there is nothing wrong with capitalism, or providing a useful and convenient banking service, these particular "bankers" were greedy profiteers who cared nothing about using God's Temple, and His worshipers, as a means to get rich.
With this in mind I thought it's possible that God would describe the fiat money system which robs the wealth of the people and countries and causes wars and violence as one of the greatest evils.

From Revelations 17:

Quote :
"I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:"
The statue of Liberty is on an island. Manhattan is an island.

Quote :
" ...having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication"
The statue of Liberty holds a golden flame in her hand.
Quote :
The name written on her forehead was a mystery: BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES, AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
Looking at the Plaque of the statue of liberty, which is also all in capital letters.



THE NEW COLUSSUS____________________________(BABYLON THE GREAT?)
THE MOTHER OF EXILES_________________________(THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES?)
THE WRETCHED REFUSE OF YOUR TEEMING SHORE___(THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH?)

Quote :
"The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."
New York was also the entry point (Ellis Island at southern tip of Manhattan) for the greatest multitudes of people from many nations and many languages in history.

Quote :
"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."
Manhattan, New York is the financial centre of the most powerful country in the world.

Part 2: How did I get to link this description of the Statue of Liberty and New York with the Federal Reserve and our fiat money system?

Quote :
"I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns"
Quote :
"They are ... seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while."
This could refer to the central banks of the G7, five of the countries once had a great empire which has fallen England, Germany, Japan, Italy & France. The 'One that is' is obviously America and the one that is yet to come is Canada the only one who has not had an empire yet.

Quote :
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit"
It says the beast was not and is not, i.e. it is some kind of creation like a fiat money system and what better description is there for fiat money not backed by Gold than a bottomless pit?

Quote :
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."
Again it suggests that the Beast is like a king and has been made and empowered by the seven like the Federal Reserve & fiat money system.

Quote :
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."
The ten horns are not countries as they have no kingdom but yet they are like kings and receive their power as kings with the beast. (The federal reserve is owned by 10 private banks.)

Quote :
"These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."
"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."
I have already described how the Whore could be New York & America and we already know that the Federal Reserve and ten private banks it is owned by are getting rich by destroying and bankrupting America and sending her into unjust wars.

Now onto Revelations 18

This one is so self explanatory as a possible collapse of a fiat money system

Quote :
"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her"
It seems to suggest that because she tried to delay her pain, i.e. kept raising the debt ceiling, lowering interest rates and causing bubbles she will have all her plagues in one day in a terrible dreadful collapse.

The following verse also suggest that America is going to be financially destroyed not physically as in a nuclear disaster because people are still afraid of her

Quote :
And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Quote :
And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
I put the last verse in capitals for effect.

Quote :
FOR THY MERCHANTS WERE THE GREAT MEN OF THE EARTH, FOR BY THY SORCERIES WERE ALL NATIONS DECEIVED. AND IN HER WAS FOUND THE BLOOD OF PROPHETS AND OF SAINTS, AND OF ALL THAT WERE SLAIN UPON THE EARTH.
This is the first time we have a global monetary system and reserve currency that in someway permeates the activities of every nation on earth.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #2
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Just when you think you've heard every possible explanation of this last book of the Bible, out comes another one! Incredible.

I assure you that the book of the Revelation has absolutely nothing, nothing at all to do with the Statue of Liberty, Manhattan, the United States, etc., etc.

If you want me to prove this statement, I can easily do so using the book of Revelation itself.

Every wingnut prophecy "expert" has tried to fit the book of Revelation into their time period only to be woefully embarrassed by their ignorance.

The book of Revelation had a very specific purpose, and was written to that end.

Don't get me wrong, there are biblical principles throughout the whole Bible that can be safely applied in an applicatory sense to these situations, but they are not prophetic pronouncements on them
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:12 PM   #3
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Yes I probably have too much Fiat on the brain so that when I read something like Revelations it creates links that aren't there.

Having said that when the collapse of the dollar does come, and the inevitable global suffering that occurs as a result. I can see more people linking this event to the bible.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:40 AM   #4
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I think the whole purpose of prophecies and other books like that, is to teach people, by igniting their imagination, make otherwise theoretical lessons alive, and therefore, people can relate to them in a meaningful way. Truth is, very few people (by percentage) are wired by nature with analytic minds, so they can be taught in abstract way (philosophers), and then apply this abstract, theoretical knowledge to the real world situations, is another level of mastery. Great majority of people, prefers examples (i.e. STORIES), to be able to relate to them and find parallels to their daily lives. That's just the way our brains evolved - not solving puzzles, but observing surroundings and "stories" unfolding around us - to help us avoid sabretooths, and find other more pleasant stuff around, instead

There lies the power of "holy" books - their authors knew that, and knew how to teach people, in a way that would engage them - by telling stories, that many can relate to in their daily struggles - or indeed, socio-economic teachings. Often these stories are of universal value - can be mixed and matched to suit. And that's good, and that's why so many people see them so unbelievably fitting to so diverse real life situations, and helpful to them - they were meant to be

my

Or, in the light of the above, shall I rather write:

"Thou shall not bore to deathththththt your audiencesththt, withthth stupideththt academicthth monologues, but tell them interesting story to kiskctarth theirth imaginationththt insteadthth "
(that's my take on ancient English)
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:01 AM   #5
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Yes, I agree that many stories in the bible work so well because as you say, the lessons are taught in the form of stories that even the uneducated can understand, be interested in, relate to & apply in a meaningful way.


I don't know what you believe and each to his own, but personally I believe that it is historically factual that Jesus existed even if some of the details of his life are debatable.


Besides some of his other inspiring & inspired moments, the fact that the only story of him using physical aggression was going through the temple and overturning the tables (banks) of the money changers, does give me a great deal of respect for someone who was certainly very wise (esp. for a carpenter...) and brave.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:58 PM   #6
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The thing that bothers me about this stuff, if the constant statements around being burned and fire. I'm very much a believer of Karma, positive and negative energies, not religion- but that scares me when they say fire/burning because NASA says solar flares are going to get worse and worse starting 2013... Just sayin..

One bad flare can knock out the grid and- OOPS!- We're now 100 years back in the past( living standards). No phones, electricity, food, water, money, you name it. Sh*t gets real.

Guns would work tho.

Good post tho I like it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bushi View Post:
I think the whole purpose of prophecies...
The major purpose of prophecies in the Bible was to prove its authenticity. If the prophecies did not come to pass, then people were to reject both the message and the messenger.

That is what makes the Bible unique amongst the holy books of various religions.

But, real-life histories were written so that we might learn from the actions (both good and bad) of others.

Sadly, as has often been said, "the one thing we don't learn from history, is that we don't learn from history".
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ILOVETRADING View Post:
The thing that bothers me about this stuff, if the constant statements around being burned and fire. I'm very much a believer of Karma, positive and negative energies, not religion- but that scares me when they say fire/burning because NASA says solar flares are going to get worse and worse starting 2013... Just sayin..

One bad flare can knock out the grid and- OOPS!- We're now 100 years back in the past( living standards). No phones, electricity, food, water, money, you name it. Sh*t gets real.

Guns would work tho.

Good post tho I like it.
I absolutely, utterly, without hesitation guarantee you this world will not end by a burst of solar flare in 2013. If I was a betting man, I would be willing to put everything I owned on it, and settle accounts on December 31st at midnight.
"While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (God, in Genesis 8:22)

Personally, I'll take God over NASA any day. :-)
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:18 PM   #9
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Sucker bet, Jetstream - if the world does end by any means at all - you don't have to pay. I like making that kind of bet - the kind you cannot lose.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post:
I absolutely, utterly, without hesitation guarantee you this world will not end by a burst of solar flare in 2013. If I was a betting man, I would be willing to put everything I owned on it, and settle accounts on December 31st at midnight.
"While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (God, in Genesis 8:22)

Personally, I'll take God over NASA any day. :-)
Touche' my friend, touche'. I like hearing that!
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:20 AM   #11
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The world as we know it will be destroyed by man. Nuclear reactors around the planet are getting older and older, and rather than retire and dismantle them, authorities simply re-certify them. At some point we will have a major disaster and major release. The on-going conflagration at Fukushima may even already be this very disaster unfolding as I type. Why the entire world has not demanded to be allowed to help the Japanese is absolutely astounding. Even more crazy is the notion that Tepco, a private company, is capable [and trusted] to do what is in the best interest of the people of earth, rather than in their own fianncial interest.

This disaster is still unfolding and may never be completely resolved. The reactor cores are now ex-vessel and Tepco admits that they do not know exactly where they are. Radioactive water is constantly pouring in to the ocean from the site and will continue to do so.

I believe we are already doomed, we just don't know it yet.

Humans are the only animal that will knowingly destroy their own habitat.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:49 PM   #12
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While there are no scientific reasons you can't do fission safely - human nature isn't mature enough yet and might never be. One reactor won't do us in - it's just one more on top of the 6-7 fully running wide open reactors the Russians and we have lost on the ocean floor in sub accidents. If it hadn't been painted out of all satellite IR photography, you could even see their thermal blooms on the surface.

That aside, I happen to agree. We are destroying our habitat (well, I walk pretty lightly on the planet myself, but as a species...not so much).

How vain of us, however, to think that just because we make the earth hard to inhabit for us, that it ends the earth. Nope, most of the other 99.9???% of biology will do fine (by weight, most living things are bacteria and ants and termites), the planet will do fine; hell, it's already been hit by some pretty big space rocks and here we are, still - it's just us humans that will suffer, mostly. Yeah, my oak and locust trees can't go on a hike north to stay in a place where global warming - and tropical pests moving north - doesn't kill them, but something else will grow instead I'm pretty sure.

The big issue with humans right now and for a long time is vanity. It even tops greed in doing damage.

First, we were coolest because only we used tools. Then Jane Goodall and a bunch of other people found other animals using them. Now we know even buzzards use cars to smash their food for them...

Then we were cool because only we had language. Now we find that monkeys can learn ASL, and other animals can communicate specific ideas - even some fish.

And science was so cool it invented the "big crunch" so there wouldn't have to be a god, and we could just be one of the many random universes in the great recycling scheme of things. Except, unlike religion, the glory of science is to once in awhile say, hey, we were really wrong - but now we know more, and you can now be a Christian and still get a job as a scientist (wasn't so for the last 90 years or so - funded science was almost utterly closed to all professing Christians).

I do believe we're going to make it hard to be a human on this rock, but I think the rock and much life will do just fine (and probably better) without us for a very long time after that. Something just as smart - but not as vain and greedy, might arise during that time.

Sting's walking in your footsteps comes to mind on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhfld7g6vuM

Sorry I couldn't find a better one online just now. Some of the key lines in this great little bit of philosophy are drowned out/unintelligible in all the live versions, so I hope you have a better copy yourself.

"You were god's favourite creature, but you didn't have a future"
"Lord of everything you see, just a little bit like me, we're walking in your footsteps"
"You were built 3 stories high, yet you wouldn't hurt a fly"

Edit: I happen to own a few tens of pounds of the waste from a naturally occurring nuclear reactor that went critical over hundreds of miles area a few billion years back, in Africa. It's a collectors item, and the hottest rocks in my collection - not stored where I live! Even out in the shed, it's in lead pigs, and the rads come right on through that to a decent detector. There are untold billions of tons of that stuff...it's still a life-free zone for all but the simplest creatures. Remember, a few billion years back, all uranium was "enriched" by today's standards. All it took was a rainstorm for water to "moderate" this reactor enough to go critical at that point.

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Old 01-20-2013, 01:23 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post:
I absolutely, utterly, without hesitation guarantee you this world will not end by a burst of solar flare in 2013. If I was a betting man, I would be willing to put everything I owned on it, and settle accounts on December 31st at midnight.
"While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease" (God, in Genesis 8:22)

Personally, I'll take God over NASA any day. :-)
Was thinking about this yesterday and gotta say, I don't entirely agree with you. We can lose electricity and still have night and day (as you said shall not cease). This would still kill millions and millions because no one knows how to hunt,treat, eat, survive like they did without electricity.

All while still having heat (summer), cold (winter), night and day.

Just sayin!
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #14
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You can lose electricity, and might die. At this instant, I'm the only guy in about an 8 mile radius that has it, because I'm already off the grid (we just had an insane ice/show/wind storm). And yes, I have the other B's in stock...and a farm.

All humans might die - seems we all do at some point. Earth, it'll still be here, just different. Will it miss us? I kind of doubt it. We seem mostly good at creating massive monuments to stupidity. Some (alien?) archeologist is going to have a blast figuring us out someday...not that we will care by then.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:35 AM   #15
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Again just crazy hypothesising...

The pope has announced his resignation today and will step down on Feb 28th...

On the Eve if his resignation the global monetary system will be timed to collapse. This will cause complete and utter worldwide chaos in a matter of hours. Christians and especially Catholics will link or at least wonder if this apocalyptic event is related to the popes, 'God's representative on earths' resignation. Some will say it was not Gods' will for him to resign and that the global chaos is God's wrath. They will beg for him to be re-instated & beg forgiveness from God. He will agree.

On the Eve of his reinstatement or close to, world leaders will announce that they have sorted out the details for the implementation of a global IMF currency which will return the world to normality. Catholics and even non Catholic Christians will thank God for this miracle & revere the power of the Catholic Church which was previously waning.

And so Satan's currency will be made to look like God's currency in the eyes of Christians (1/3 of the world's population)
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:05 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Unbeatable View Post:
...
The pope has announced his resignation today and will step down on Feb 28th...

...On the Eve of his reinstatement or close to, world leaders will announce that they have sorted out the details for the implementation of a global IMF currency which will return the world to normality. ...

And so Satan's currency will be made to look like God's currency in the eyes of Christians (1/3 of the world's population)
http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f4/vatica...-authority-73/
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:49 AM   #17
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Wow great thread, so turns out they are part of the program.

(Extract you quoted from article dated Mon Oct 24, 2011)

Quote :
The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises. ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...45887020111024

My crazy idea is probably pretty crazy but your thread does show they are certainly on board with the IMF global currency etc. when it comes.

From the same article

Quote :
The Vatican called for the establishment of "a supranational authority" with worldwide scope and "universal jurisdiction" to guide economic policies and decisions.


& they frame it as being good for the people of the world.

Quote :
Urging Wall Street powerbrokers to examine the impact of their decisions on humanity, the Vatican called on those who wanted to change economic structures to "not be afraid to propose new ideas, even if they might destabilise pre-existing balances of power that prevail over the weakest."
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:44 PM   #18
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El Popo was probably getting too much flack for the size of his stash .......

He knows too much and has to go ....... ( like all those mysterious bankster resignations )

The kids are just too much of a handful these days ..........


Sadly, I find it hard to have much respect for this vast controlling organisation that sees the numbers game as the only thing that matters.

edit -

heh - great minds ........

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...mpathy-popexit
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