Precious Metals Forum

Go Back   Precious Metals Forum > Precious Metals and Economic News > Fiat Ponzi

Like Tree4Likes
  • 1 Post By PMBug
  • 3 Post By PMBug

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-20-2012, 06:39 AM   #1
Golden Cockroach
 
PMBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault
Posts: 7,017
Liked: 2443 times
Inflation-protected Treasury securities trading with negative interest rates

Quote :
Investors bought inflation-protected Treasury securities at a negative interest rate for the first time on Thursday, demonstrating the depth of concerns that Federal Reserve efforts to stimulate the economy could lead to higher inflation in the future.

The $15 billion in Treasury inflation protected securities, or Tips, were sold at a negative yield of about 0.046 per cent. Investors could still make money on their holdings because the principal of such securities increases if inflation rises.

Bill O'Donnell, strategist at RBS Securities, said that investors were accepting "a short-term cost for a potential long-term gain." Treasury securities of all kinds are finding favour as a haven as investors flee the market turmoil in the eurozone.

Investors are turning to Tips as the real returns on fixed-rate Treasuries also have turned negative, meaning the yields are less than the current rate of inflation.

Investors are buying 10-year Treasury notes with a yield of 1.99 per cent. Meanwhile, consumer price data released on Thursday showed that US core inflation, which excludes food and energy, for the year ending in December, advanced 2.2 per cent, its fastest pace of growth in four years. The consumer price index was flat for the second successive month.

The low yields on Treasury securities reflect the impact of Federal Reserve's Operation Twist programme, under which it buys longer-dated bonds, with the hope of pushing down long-term interest rates and thereby stimulating economic growth. US jobless claims dropped by 50,000 to 352,000 in the week ending January 14, the lowest level since April 2008, the Labour Department said.

"The big gorilla in the room is the Fed," Mr O'Donnell said. "They are buying up a lot of debt."
http://gata.org/node/10899

I know I'm seeing the world with gold and silver colored glasses, but seems to me there is a "more solid" vehicle for preserving and protecting wealth in these circumstances.

Penn likes this.
__________________
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu

Important stuff: PMBug 101 * Forum Guidelines * Support PMBug
PMBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 06:53 AM   #2
KMS
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cheesehead Land
Posts: 374
Liked: 119 times
Yay, inflation.... I like how they talk it down...
Quote :
"Meanwhile, consumer price data released on Thursday showed that US core inflation, which excludes food and energy, for the year ending in December, advanced 2.2 per cent, its fastest pace of growth in four years"
Yeah, just core inflation. Well I don't know how they get to work or how they keep their house warm at night but food and energy ain't cheap either.. Wish some people had the integrity to just man/woman up and call a spade a spade.

Of course like this news, we all get to see what the left hand is doing. However the right hand is busy has hell leasing out gold, giving sweet MBS deals, cash swaps to Europe @ lower interest rates, and buying it's own debt that the rest of the world is shedding.

We're gonna get slaughtered in this currency war...
__________________
“The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war.
Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin.
But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.”
– Ernest Hemingway

If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it - Mark Twain
KMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 08:18 AM   #3
Yellow Jacket
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,053
Liked: 925 times
I only pay attention to the shadowstats cpi.
swissaustrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 08:41 AM   #4
KMS
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cheesehead Land
Posts: 374
Liked: 119 times
Understood, but which rules do you really think we should see as the truth?
__________________
“The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war.
Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin.
But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists.”
– Ernest Hemingway

If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it - Mark Twain
KMS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 09:00 AM   #5
Yellow Jacket
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,053
Liked: 925 times
Originally Posted by KMS View Post:
Understood, but which rules do you really think we should see as the truth?
The hedonics and substitution bs of the official cpi discredit the it totally imho.
Shadowstats is better, because Mr Williams at least follows the primary rule of statistics which is: don't change the method.
The MIT has recently started an interesting project called "the billion dollar price project": http://bpp.mit.edu/ They track prices on a daily basis. I haven't look into the details of their calculations, though.
I think everyone should create an individual basket of goods and track prices at the local level. In the end, the only thing that matters to me is what I have to pay.
The Swiss authorities offer individual basket calculations on federal websites by the way. The changes in prices are based on national averages, though.

Generally speaking: I think it's a tragedy that prices go up in the current environment. We have massive gains in productivity due to all the great blessings of information technology. Emerging market workers produce goods at extremely cheap levels. Consumers can't enjoy the benefits of these circumstances, thx to global central bankers trying to save an imploding banking system.
swissaustrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #6
Yellow Jacket
 
ancona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Waaay south
Posts: 3,370
Liked: 2046 times
So........"Here's my hiundred grand, and I demand to be paid ninety nine thousand back in one year"? WTF are people thinking buying this shiite?
__________________
All things being equal, the simplest answer is quite often the correct answer - Occam
ancona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 08:34 AM   #7
Golden Cockroach
 
PMBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault
Posts: 7,017
Liked: 2443 times
Quote :
...
There's one indicator that clearly signals we're still in the bull market – and further, that we can expect prices to continue to rise. That indicator is negative real interest rates.

The real interest rate is simply the nominal rate minus inflation. For example, if you earn 4% on an interest-bearing investment and inflation is 2%, your real return is +2%. Conversely, if your investment earns 1% but inflation is 3%, your real rate is -2%.

This calculation is the same regardless of how high either rate may be: a 15% interest rate and 13% inflation still nets you 2%. This is why high interest rates are not necessarily negative for gold; it's the real rate that impacts what gold will ultimately do.

What History Tells Us

The chart below calculates the real interest rate by extracting annualized inflation from the 10-year Treasury nominal rate. Gray highlighted areas are the periods when the real interest rate was below zero, and as you can see, this is when gold has performed well.



Gold climbs when real interest rates are low or falling, while high or rising real rates negatively impact it. This pattern was true in the 1970s and it's true today.

A closer study of this chart tells us there's actually a critical number for real rates that seem to have the most impact on gold. Take a look at how gold performs when real rates are at 2% or below.


...
More: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...ritical-metric
escobar, ancona and rblong2us like this.
__________________
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu

Important stuff: PMBug 101 * Forum Guidelines * Support PMBug
PMBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #8
Golden Cockroach
 
PMBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault
Posts: 7,017
Liked: 2443 times
Ouch!
Quote :
The following extract from Charles Gave's (of GaveKal ) latest letter to clients is a must read for all, especially for the central planning members of the FOMC. The punchline is this statement which is so simple and obvious, it is no wonder virtually noone in control has figured it out yet: "One Cannot Operate A Capitalist System If The State Can Borrow At A Negative Cost."
...
More: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/one-ca...-negative-cost
__________________
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu

Important stuff: PMBug 101 * Forum Guidelines * Support PMBug
PMBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 07:32 PM   #9
Yellow Jacket
 
Penn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,566
Liked: 249 times
I got to hand it to you guys- I see threads here that I see no where else. I like that there is meat to them.

Nice!
Penn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Negative lease rates for gold (and silver) PMBug Gold Bug 219 12-12-2014 08:43 AM
Conflicts of interest at the Federal Reserve PMBug Fiat Ponzi 2 06-28-2012 08:56 AM
Treasury Bond Bubble Bursting? PMBug Fiat Ponzi 12 04-03-2012 07:53 PM
Rickards: Treasury shorting the Dollar PMBug Fiat Ponzi 5 12-17-2011 04:42 PM
Europeans worry about interest rate manipulation PMBug Fiat Ponzi 1 10-19-2011 07:57 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® from Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Content of PMBug.com copyright © 2011 - 2019 Measuring Up. All Rights Reserved.