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Old 08-17-2015, 02:26 PM   #1
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Minimum wage

While I know it would never pass congress, but since we already to have a federal minimum wage, why can't their be tiered min wage? For instance those "beginner" type jobs that most teens get while in H.S. and/or college could be at a lower rate until that employee hits 18 or 19 and got their diploma. Also a lower wage for an employee who is in a kind of probationary period, maybe 6-months to a year. Then another bump for those people who are life long min wage employees who stay consistently employed for X amount of years, and if a company starts firing people near these incentive dates, they could get hit with a big fine unless they can show VERY good cause as to why they had to fire the employee. I think these kind of steps would be a lot better than just blanket raising the min wage for everyone everywhere to $15 or $20 an hour. I'm sure there are other possibilities as well, maybe a bit lower for part time or seasonal employees, etc. Maybe a regional difference (this is why it should be left up to the states to start with) This way small business could still afford to hire employees to keep their places well staffed, especially during busy seasons without driving up prices more than they already are, and these young whipper snappers can hopefully start getting jobs at a young age to find out what it means to earn money, gain some work experience for later in life and get out of their parents basements!
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Old 08-18-2015, 05:36 AM   #2
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Personally, I am against a minimum wage for several reasons.

First, everything has a labor component to it and any time the value of the labor component changes, all prices rise or fall relative to the change in value. In other words, there is no gain to raising the minimum wage as ALL prices will be forced up negating any advantage. To put it another way, if something costs 1 hour of labor when the minimum wage is $7 per hour, that same something will still cost 1 hour of labor when the minimum wage is $15 per hour. Who gains? Mostly the government with bracket creep giving the government a higher percentage of taxes with EVERY worker losing to bracket creep.

Second, minimum wages tend to disincentivize workers from improving their education so they can get and keep a better job. Keeping a minimum wage low or better yet non-existent encourages workers to improve themselves towards getting better jobs.

Third, minimum wages only apply to entry type jobs. They do not apply to any other type of job where the pay level is dictated by the needs of the company and the abilities of the workers that the company needs.

Fourth, a mandated minimum wage is always too low or to high depending on prevailing LOCAL costs and LOCAL wages. A minimum wage "right" for New York City is way too high for Podunkville, New York. A minimum wage "right" for Podunkville would be useless for New York City. Bottom line is that a minimum wage "right" for NYC would distort the Podunkville economy while a minimum wage "right" for Podunkville would have absolutely no effect on the NYC economy.

Fifth, minimum wages ENCOURAGE entry level workers to STAY entry level workers. That increases the entry level labor pool, keeping entry level wages low. It also forces non-entry level wages UP because the non-entry level labor pool is smaller than it would be if entry level workers moved up the ladder instead of congregating at the entry level labor pool. In other words, minimum wages widen the pay gap between entry level and non-entry level jobs.

Finally, I read somewhere that if the minimum wage is Federally set at $15 per hour that in Puerto Rico the minimum wage would be higher than the current AVERAGE wage there, which, if I remember correctly, is $13 per hour. PR is not exempt from the Federal minimum wage, so going to $15 per hour would decimate an already bankrupt PR, our own "Greece" if you will.

Multiple minimum wage levels violate the KISS rule. Anything that is not simple and straight forward is confusing to the users and is easily abused. Enforcing a complex minimum wage scheme is impossible without one or more new alphabet agencies that will eventually be as bad or worse than the IRS, EPA, and numerous other current government agencies. Thanks, but no thanks to encouraging bullies to "interpret" the minimum wage laws for us and if we don't bow to their wishes, they destroy us.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:29 AM   #3
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Not sure where you got out of my post that I am in favor of a minimum wage, but if you think it's going away anytime soon, you need to think again. They are also going to continue to raise the minimum wage, I'd just like to see it done in a more incremental way to do less damage to business and the economy. Even my suggestions at ways to restrain the min wage from going insane will probably never happen, at least not anytime soon. If individual states want to make a minimum wage that's their business but I don't think the feds should be telling the whole country what the min wage should be. The only form of wage controls I am in favor of is that of politicians. They should only be paid if they have a balanced budget. They should be paid whatever the average wage is for they type of office they hold, i.e. a U.S. Sen/Rep/Pres makes whatever the national average for income is, a state sen/rep/gov makes whatever the average income for his state is. That would encourage them to improve the economy. Also they need to have term limits for the Senators and Representatives as well.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:22 PM   #4
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I absolutely know it is not going away. And it will also get much more complicated. That is the way of EVERYTHING in government, witness the tax code. Anything to give more power to the regulators and trample on our freedoms. The only good thing is that sooner or later, the whole Ponzi scheme collapses on itself, but at the cost of much blood and heartache. That said, no matter what happens to the minimum wage, it no longer directly affects me. I just feel sorry for those who are currently getting hurt by it and those that will literally die when it all falls apart.
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:39 PM   #5
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I was thinking on this.

If min wage goes to $15. I paid into SS on a $6 wage. (min wage was $4.75 I think) I wonder if I could have SS adjusted. Supposedly SS kept up with inflation via COLAS. But if a wage of $15, which is 3x the min wage when I worked-if I took what would be the SS based on $15, and devided by 3- that shorts me- even if you factor for the COLA.

BTW_ I agree on the tier- a problem on that tho- is they would run into fire-rehires- sort of like you have to work 90 days to be permanent- and places would fire workers on the 89th day and then rehire them
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:40 PM   #6
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mm- on the other hand- if workers are asking to not get many hours- so as to keep section 8, food stamps- maybe we are paying- one way or the other- pick one
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:37 AM   #7
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The $15 dollar minimumwage thing is canard. No thought whatsoever has gone in to their argument for more money because they are incapable of critical thought and unable to understand the fundamentals of a free and open marketplace where the prices are set by supply and demand. There is a reason why low/no skill jobs don't pay a wage higher or much higher than minimum wage. It is because there are way more people willing to work those jobs than there are jobs for that pool of workers. This is a simple formula folks, but they simply don't get it. If we acquiesce, and pay these people their $15 bucks an hour, then prices necessarily need to rise to accommodate their increased wages. That, or parts of the process in that business need to become more efficient, or become automated, i.e. robots, or automated cashiers. That is the sum of it. What I mean to say is that jobs will be eliminated. Equilibrium will occur, that is a fact. Whenever entropy increases, the system will act to achieve equilibrium, that is a natural fact within any given system.

Look at any city with high, i.e. unnatural/forced minimum wages like San Francisco, or Seattle, or Boston. How much does a regular hamburger sandwich cost there as opposed to someplace like where I live? That's right, something approaching double folks.
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Old 08-19-2015, 10:34 PM   #8
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My state right now minimum wage is pretty much $11-$12/hour, not by govt. mandate, but that is about the least you can pay to get an employee. Mind you that even with skyrocketing cost of living here, we are still cheaper than most places. Many places still are WAY understaffed. Out in the oil patch starting pay for a burger flipper job is $20/hr and they cant fill those. Lots of places are only open 40-60 hours a week, not cause they don't have the business, but they can't get the staff, even at $20+ per hour. We're talking restaurants that there is a line when they open Mon morning at 6am, and have to turn people away when they are closing at 6pm on Fri night. I think if it wasn't for all the govt. programs there would be an even bigger migration of people here for the work, but since they can live on a warm beach and get govt. assistance why move to someplace where it snows for $20+ an hour? If we passed a state law tomorrow saying our min wage was $25/hr I don't think it would change much in the foreseeable future. I'm ok with that cause I'm sick of the crime, pollution, traffic, and idiotic drivers.
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