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Old 11-02-2018, 08:51 AM   #101
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Apparently, using gold as money is a yuge problem.
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Old 11-02-2018, 11:50 AM   #102
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1. how does a trade sanction stop this ?

2. As the controllers cannot admit this, what is the justification given ?

and as a general observation, doesnt this signal the importance of the barborus relic ?
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:36 AM   #103
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1. No idea

2. No idea.

3. Yes.
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Old 11-06-2018, 07:07 AM   #104
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Quote :
Venezuela is seeking to repatriate about $550 million in gold bars from the Bank of England because of fears it could be caught up in international sanctions on the country, two sources with direct knowledge of the effort told Reuters.

Venezuela’s hard currency holdings have dwindled as existing U.S. financial sanctions have effectively blocked President Nicolas Maduro’s government from borrowing on international markets.
...
Maduro’s government is seeking to bring 14 tonnes of gold held in the Bank of England back to Venezuela, according to two public officials with direct knowledge of the operation, who asked not to be identified.

The Bank of England has sought to clarify what Venezuela wants to do with the gold, one of the officials said.

Venezuela’s central bank did not respond to a request for comment. The Bank of England declined to comment.

The plan has been held up for nearly two months due to difficulty in obtaining insurance for the shipment, needed to move a large gold cargo, one of the officials said.

“They are still trying to find insurance coverage, because the costs are high,” the official said.
...
The amount is equivalent to five times the total hard currency that Venezuela has sold in 2018 via hard currency auctions that are carried out under the country’s 15-year-old exchange control system, according figures compiled by local consultancy Sintesis Financiera.
...
But even if Venezuela manages to repatriate the gold, the new U.S. sanctions could make selling it to raise hard currency difficult.

“If the government wants to carry out operations with the gold that it plans to bring, it would have to be done with allied countries because of the sanctions,” said Tamara Herrera, an economist with Sintesis Financiera.
...
The country’s late socialist leader Hugo Chavez, citing the need for Venezuela to have physical control of central bank assets, in 2011 repatriated around 160 tonnes of gold from banks in the United States and Europe to the central bank in Caracas.

But some of Venezuela’s gold remained in the Bank of England. Starting in 2014, Venezuela used this gold for “swap” operations in which global banks lent Venezuela several billion dollars with the gold as collateral.

Venezuelan central bank statistics show the central bank’s gold holdings by June this year had dropped to 160 tonnes from 364 tonnes in 2014, as some of the swap agreements expired without Venezuela returning the funds - leaving the gold in the hands of the banks.

In 2017, such swap agreements became difficult due to U.S. sanctions, which blocked U.S. financial institutions from bankrolling any new financing operations.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN1NA1Q7

"The Bank of England has sought to clarify what Venezuela wants to do with the gold ..."

What? If I make a withdrawal at a bank, and the banks "seeks to clarify what I want to do with my money", I tell them instead of a withdrawal, I'm closing my account. It's none of their business. Maybe the reporting here was just really bad (vague) and they meant they sought clarity in how the gold was to be shipped, but as written, the sentence is a head scratcher.

Held up for two months because insurance? Right... They manged to ship 160 tonnes home in 2011 but now face insurmountable hurdles shipping 14 tonnes. Very believable.

"But even if Venezuela manages to repatriate the gold ..."

I find it really odd for Reuters to suggest that Venezuela would not be able to repatriate their gold.
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Old 11-06-2018, 01:58 PM   #105
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My guess is that that there are a lot of claims on that gold. There are currently a hell of a lot of unpaid vendors owed a boatload of money by Venezuela, and they are all waiting in line for their pound of flesh. That tiny bit of gold would do a little bit to pay a few creditors, but my money goes towards the cronies taking a huge vig for themselves and spending the rest on everything besides infrastructure or medicine for the people.

That is probably why the delay.
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:49 AM   #106
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Ah yes the BOE wants to be sure it goes to help the starving population

They are probably putting together a couple of boatloads of out of date food and pharmacuticals and keeping the gold as payment ...............

Of course it will be stolen/ mis-appropriated, the Central Banks of the world have already shown us how its done, many times over.

To who does the gold belong and how does it get to them ? Dont ask )-:
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Old 11-09-2018, 07:40 AM   #107
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So it looks like I might have understood that Reuters report correctly...

Quote :
...
The Bank has refused to release the gold bars, worth about £420 million, according to sources. British officials are understood to have insisted that standard measures to prevent money-laundering be taken — including clarification of the Venezuelan government’s intentions for the gold.

There are concerns that Mr Maduro may seize the gold, which is owned by the state, and sell it for personal gain.
...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...e-uk-0p29xp99w

I really don't see where the BoE has any jurisdiction to police financial crimes in other countries. What a wacky world we live in today.
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:27 AM   #108
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The same 'logic' could be applied to any fiat money the bank holds on anyones behalf .....

This is a worrying principle to add to their 'justifications' already in place to stop honestly held assets from returning to their lawful owner.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:47 AM   #109
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... and here is the crux of the matter:
Quote :
...
President Trump moved this month to increase pressure on Caracas by signing an executive order sanctioning Venezuelan gold exports and banning U.S. citizens from dealing with anyone involved in “corrupt or deceptive” Venezuelan gold sales.

“The Maduro regime has used this [gold] sector as a bastion to finance illicit activities, to fill its coffers and to support criminal groups,” National Security Advisor John R. Bolton said in a Nov. 1 policy speech in Miami.

Mr. Bolton said Venezuela was among a “Troika of Tyranny” with Cuba and Nicaragua. He said those nations collectively threaten U.S. interests in the Western Hemisphere in a way that justifies “direct action” by the administration “against all three regimes.”

South America observers say the urgency to thwart Venezuela’s gold exports is driven from within the Treasury Department’s office combating illicit finance.

Marshall Billingslea, Treasury’s assistant secretary for terrorist financing, has drawn specific attention to the dangers of the Maduro government’s dealings in gold and accused the Venezuelan president of looting his country.

“This gold is being removed from the country without any of the customary safeguards that would ensure the funds are accounted for and properly cataloged as belonging to the Venezuelan people,” Mr. Billingslea told an audience late last month at the Brookings Institution.
...
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...argeted-trump/
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:13 AM   #110
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Quote :
Venezuelan opposition leaders are asking the Bank of England to keep 14 tons of Venezuelan bullion safely locked up in Britain rather than return it to the administration of President Nicolás Maduro because he’s likely to steal or squander it amid the country’s economic collapse.

In a letter sent Friday, former National Assembly President Julio Borges and the political coordinator for the Voluntad Popular party, Carlos Vecchio — both in exile — asked bank governor Mark Carney to refuse Venezuela’s request for the gold.
...
The Times of London has reported that the Bank of England is dragging its feet — and perhaps refusing — to send the gold back. The bank has not made any public statements about the issue.

The bank holds about 400,000 gold bars for central banks around the world, making it the second-largest depository of the metal after the New York Federal Reserve. For it to refuse a request from one of its clients would be highly unusual.
...
... Caracas Capital Markets, which tracks Venezuela’s finances, says that in 2011, the country had $21.3 billion in gold reserves. But “after a rash of selling gold,” the country had just $6.8 billion as of August, the firm said. ...
http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nati...222443960.html

Quote :
Venezuela’s central bank sent key economic data to the International Monetary Fund last week to avoid penalties in the most significant trove of statistics compiled for the lender in about two years, according to three people with direct knowledge of the matter.

The official figures admit that inflation spiraled out of control to 860 percent in 2017 while the economy contracted 15.7 percent, the fourth straight year of recession, according to one of the people who isn’t authorized to speak publicly on the matter. After Venezuela suspended the publication of growth and inflation data in the midst of the unprecedented crisis, the IMF warned of possible sanctions for withholding statistics and the central bank complied by sharing the figures Nov. 20, the people said.
...
More: https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...-860-last-year

Quote :
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro insists that national gold exports should continue despite sweeping US sanctions targeting the industry. It comes after the UK refused to release around $550 million in gold owned by Caracas.

“Venezuela has the right to sell what it produces. We are moving forward with the plan on gold output as the new source of prosperity,” Maduro stated, as cited by media, after the meeting with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Monday.
...
https://www.rt.com/business/445526-m...enezuela-gold/
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:25 PM   #111
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.

They just don't make communist utopia's like they used to.

.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:36 PM   #112
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Quote :
“This gold is being removed from the country without any of the customary safeguards that would ensure the funds are accounted for and properly cataloged as belonging to the Venezuelan people,” Mr. Billingslea told an audience late last month at the Brookings Institution.

note, its properly cataloged as belonging to the Venezuelan people !

Does this apply to gold held by other countries ?
Perhaps it could all be returned to its rightful owners ?
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:44 PM   #113
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It's probably typical hot air bluster, but Maduro's quote in the last snippet really stood out to me.
Quote :
We are moving forward with the plan on gold output as the new source of prosperity
Does this mean that the Chinese gold mining deal they struck is more lucrative than their oil industry (PDVSA)? Or maybe PDVSA is too broken now to continue functioning as a business engine. Either way, I have a hard time imagining that Venezuela's gold mining industry could sustain the entire country's economy.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:21 AM   #114
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So you might recall that two months ago, Venezuela announced a "strategic alliance on gold mining" with China: https://www.pmbug.com/forum/f4/venez...html#post33494

I wonder how China feels about Russia potentially moving in on that business:
Quote :
Venezuelan authorities have offered Russian companies to take part in gold exploration and gold mining in the country, according to Russian Ambassador to Venezuela Vladimir Zaemsky.

“As for Russia’s participation in gold-mining or other mining projects, Venezuela has made a wide range of interesting proposals that are currently under consideration by interested Russian operators,” the ambassador said.

The official added that Caracas is deeply interested in cooperating with Russia in the sector of exploration of the country’s solid extractable resources, including gold, diamonds and coltan, which is used for the extraction of elements such as niobium and tantalum.
...
https://www.rt.com/business/447438-v...d-exploration/
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Old 01-01-2019, 12:35 PM   #115
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Unlikely Russia or China are going to be that interested as Venezuela has a bad track record with such arrangements .......

A deep water port might be of interest though ?
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:15 AM   #116
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Considering history with the Cuban Missile crisis, I'd be really surprised if Venezuela opened the door for either nation to establish a significant military presence there. But these are (apparently) desperate times, so who knows what they might do.
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:31 PM   #117
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I would like to think the Monroe doctrine would apply here. I know it was meant for European countries, while part of Russia lies in Europe, I consider it an Asian country & of course China is 100% in Asia, maybe a few small islands that aren't technically part of Asia. Letting them become the puppet master of a puppet govt. & letting them establish a strong presence that close to our border is not something I want to see. I doubt if the dummy in the White House even knows what the Monroe doctrine is, hopefully someone can explain it to him without him attacking them of twitter.

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Old 01-03-2019, 07:34 PM   #118
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Is there a reverse Monroe doctrine that might stop the bringers of democracy ( NATO ) from setting up bases in places like Poland or Ukraine or even Afghanistan ?
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:41 AM   #119
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Quote :
A committee from Venezuela is set to arrive in Turkey to discuss a gold refining deal between Ankara and Caracas, pro-government Yeni Şafak daily reported.

The group sent by Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro will visit Turkey’s central province of Çorum, where it’s looking to conduct bilateral trade talks and refine thousands of tons of Venezuelan gold as part of an inspection of Turkey’s gold refining facilities, the newspaper said.

The delegation arrives as Turkey continues to set up joint ventures with the Venezuelan government for gold and coal exploration and has started investing in the country’s oil industry.

Venezuela’s central bank began refining gold in Turkey in 2018. Gold, worth $834 million in the first 7 months of 2018 alone, is being shipped to Turkey for refinement and procession, with U.S. officials alleging that some may be making its way onto Iran in a violation of sanctions.
...
https://ahvalnews.com/venezuela-turk...ends-committee

So Venezuela is getting China and Russia to help mine their gold and then they ship it across the globe to Turkey to be refined. Crazy. Except having the refined gold in turkey does offer a wide range of opportunity for trading it away.
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:16 PM   #120
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So you might remember back in October of 2017, Venezuela let a gold swap with Deutsche Bank lapse (as mentioned here). Apparently, they continued to load gold to DB and recently actually paid off one of those loans:
Quote :
Venezuela’s gold holdings in the Bank of England have jumped after it closed out a gold swap deal with Deutsche Bank, according to two sources, as Britain remains reluctant to release gold held for the troubled OPEC nation.

The government of Nicolas Maduro has since last year been seeking to repatriate about $550 million in gold from the Bank of England on fears it could be caught up in international sanctions on the country.

Its holdings at the bank more than doubled in December to 31 tonnes, or around $1.2 billion, after Venezuela returned funds it had borrowed from Deutsche Bank AG through a financing arrangement that uses gold as collateral, known as a swap, one of the sources said.

Under the deal struck with Deutsche Bank in 2015, Venezuela put up 17 tonnes of gold in exchange for a loan, according to one of the sources who asked not to be identified because it is not authorized to speak publicly about the issue.

The country’s gold holdings fell to 134 tonnes in November compared with 150 tonnes at the start of 2018, according to central bank statistics.

This is in part because Venezuela last year started carrying out gold barter operations with Turkey to import food following U.S. sanctions that have made international banks reluctant to handle Venezuelan transactions.

The motivation for paying back the funds from the Deutsche swap was not immediately evident. But redeeming the swap would give Venezuela more gold for barter operations with Turkey.
...
https://www.reuters.com/article/vene...-idUSL1N1ZI19I
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