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Old 11-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #21
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Funny how they call stealing "borrowing".
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:39 AM   #22
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Private pensions are the largest remaining pool of private money left in America today. The amount of cash is staggeing and it is more of an attraction every year. Were the government to force conversion of all these assets in to treasury bills, it would at least temporarily solve our money problems, that is until they spend it all. It doesn't really matter what they try to do, the debt is unsustainable and on a parabolic path from which we cannot return without chopping away 3/4 opf our government and 3/5 of our military [to include complete disengagement from all wars and all foreign bases].

This subject is brought up every year or so, then gets shot down. Our government is not quite desperate enough yet to implement such a controversial system/confiscation, but I would not put it past them as I believe the democrats in this administration capable of anything. One merely has to do a little reading to see how radical this group is.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:42 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mike View Post:
I don't know of this is new news or not, but according to an accountant buddy on the federal-government level, "the pensions of federal employees have already been collateralized and replaced with IOUs." Those were his exact words.
Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
Old news. It's what kept government running during the last stand-off over raising the debt ceiling. Timmy had to raid government pensions after the debt ceiling was reached. This was widely reported in the MSM: ...
It's happening again.

Quote :
The Treasury on Tuesday started dipping into federal pension funds in order to give the Obama administration more credit to pay government bills.

"I will be unable to invest fully" the federal employees retirement system fund beginning Tuesday, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said in a letter to Democratic and Republican leaders in Congress.
...
Geithner said Treasury started suspending reinvestments in a federal pension fund known as the G-Fund -- a tool Treasury has had to employ six times over the past 20 years in order to keep the country below the statutory debt limit.

The Treasury Department has already tapped another seldom-used fund in order to allow the government to continue borrowing without running afoul of the country's laws.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80G20R20120117
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:24 AM   #24
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Quote :
The U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is weighing whether it should take on a role in helping Americans manage the $19.4 trillion they have put into retirement savings, a move that would be the agency’s first foray into consumer investments.

“That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring and are interested in in terms of whether and what authority we have,” bureau director Richard Cordray said in an interview. He didn’t provide additional details.
...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...attention.html

"We're from the government. We're here to help you."
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:02 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...attention.html

"We're from the government. We're here to help you."
"The bureau’s core concern is that many Americans, notably those from the retiring Baby Boom generation, may fall prey to financial scams..."

Scams like the USD?
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:50 AM   #26
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I read a long article yesterday on ZH or some other, similar site. What struck me was the sheer amount of money we're talking about here. The number I saw was in excess of 19 trillion dollars. If ever there was a pool of money sloshing around, just waiting to get looted, it is this pool of savings. Alarm bells went off immediately as the conspiracy theorist in me woke up.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:53 AM   #27
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The scam could be (just gassing here) - OK, scaring people about gun controls sells guns and ammo, as we all know.

Now, scare them about their retirement, so they all pull out and have a huge tax liability just when the .gov needs it.

I am already pulling some retirement in the normal fashion, but so little my tax bill is effectively zero - cheap to live here and I already have plenty of toys. But if I yanked my retirement fund, I'd have quite a hit, the largest tax bill in my life.

Rock, Paper, Scissors, anyone?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:27 AM   #28
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Leave it to DC to see it from a different angle. I have to staart thinking more like a thief in the night.

That's actually more plausible than simply forcing conversion to T-bills, and in the end it means significantly more revenue!

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Old 04-13-2013, 11:25 AM   #29
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Haha... WSJ is clueless...
Quote :
How many times have you read financial-advice stories lecturing you to max-out on your IRA, save as much as you can in your 401(k), and even pay taxes now to change your regular IRA into a Roth IRA that will be tax-free until you die?

Well, be careful how much you save.

That's the message in President Obama's budget for fiscal 2014, which for the first time proposes to cap the amount Americans can save in these tax-sheltered investment vehicles. The White House explanation is that some people have accumulated "substantially more than is needed to fund reasonable levels of retirement saving." So Mr. Obama proposes to "limit an individual's total balance across tax-preferred accounts to an amount sufficient to finance an annuity of not more than $205,000 per year in retirement, or about $3 million for someone retiring in 2013."

Thus do our political betters now feel free to define for everyone what is "needed" for a "reasonable" retirement. ...

...

Amazingly, Mr. Obama has surveyed the economic landscape and somehow decided that it's time to discourage savings if you make more than he thinks is "reasonable."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...p_mostpop_read

WTF does the author think ZIRP et. al. is all about?!?!?
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:50 AM   #30
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Quote :
Poland said on Wednesday it will transfer to the state many of the assets held by private pension funds, slashing public debt but putting in doubt the future of the multi-billion-euro funds, many of them foreign-owned.
...
More: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...0H02UV20130904
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:45 AM   #31
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Soon to come to our shores. Congress has been eyeballing the trillions of dollars in private pensions and private 401-K accounts for some time now. If this huge pile of cash were transferred to the Treasury, we would [on paper] eliminate all public debts and offload all those treasuries to the pension slush fund. In one fell swoop, we would regain total global monetary hegemony.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
Soon to come to our shores. Congress has been eyeballing the trillions of dollars in private pensions and private 401-K accounts for some time now. If this huge pile of cash were transferred to the Treasury, we would [on paper] eliminate all public debts and offload all those treasuries to the pension slush fund. In one fell swoop, we would regain total global monetary hegemony.
Sadly, I was just talking about this same idea with a friend. 401k, IRAs, 403b, ect programs are all under the controll of Congress. They could easily pass a bill that forces the money in those programs to flow into an "investment" that helps the government such as U.S. treasury bonds that pay less than 1% interest. It is one of the best ways (if you look at it from the big government, keep the party going standpoint) to deal with the monster national debt.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:39 PM   #33
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I was just about a year ago that the idea was being floated in the press ...

http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f4/mandatory-401k-1351/
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:17 PM   #34
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See my post above. It's one heck of a risk to pull out all of my IRA at once - certain huge tax bill.
It's another class/amount (unknown) to leave it in there. If they do this stuff, it's not like they're going to warn anyone - it'll be like one of those massive opening gaps in the market - when you know, it's already too late. I suppose I could get lucky and them go for the 401's before the IRA's; it's legally easier and most can't do much about their 401s compared to what I can do with my IRA - trade it myself for example, put it all in cash and so on, at a whim, or just write myself a huge check now.

Maybe a one day warning, with the proviso that it'll take 2-3 days to get that wire transfer from the IRA? This is sickening. No way to alter the odds I can see, even with being smart and attentive.
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Old 09-06-2013, 04:00 PM   #35
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I don't think of it in terms of "if", I think in terms of "when", because it has become a near mathematical certainty. Our untenable debt cannot and will not be serviced with tax revenues because it has grown so fucking large. People are panicking over 10 year rates at 3% for crimeny sake. I remember not too long ago when four or five percent was small cheese, now 3 or 4 percent spells Armageddon. Because there are so damn many bonds out there to service, one point is enough to break the bank anymore.

If they dip their ladle in to the 401-K pool, they can more than cover existing bonds and put the weight of devaluation squarely on the shoulders of Joe Average and his soon-to-be government run pension fund that requires 100% "investment" in Treasuries.

Yup, it can happen with the stroke of a pen.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:05 AM   #36
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I know it can, but in my case, here's the rub. If I don't trade my IRA, I'll certainly run out of money before I die - even with the pittance SS might give me in a few years (I retired early by most standards and was good at avoiding SS taxes along the way). If I take it out, I change a risk into a definite tax loss that's pretty large - locking in a loss (and ability to support myself), vs holding onto a risk - that makes significant gains even vs actual inflation due to astute trading...decisions, decisions.
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Old 09-07-2013, 02:52 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by DoChenRollingBearing View Post:
Social Security and other entitlements are programs in big trouble (unless they hyperinflate).
If they hyperinflate, it will be trouble for the pensionnaires, but it won't be a problem for the government because they will report little or no inflation to keep SS payments down. Then *POOF* like magic, SS is "fixed". Never mind all the grandparents being evicted and starving to death. They'll make good soylent green.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:18 PM   #38
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Mike,
You are right about the inflation scam. They purposely leave out food, fuel, medicine, electricity and many other things because they claim them to be too "volatile" to add in to their equation. However, since they only do a COLA once a year, I fail to see how a little volatility in oil figures in since they can simply adjust the number in the next go-around. As for hyperinflation, we're headed down a path where the government may have no choice remaining other than to blast the dollar to smithereens and start over. For instance, an overnight devaluation [or series of devaluations] would go a long way toward ridding ourselves of the extraordinary pile of external debts we currently maintain. Social security is a giant thorn in the side of this and prior administrations because of the demographic bubble that is slowly popping. I am fifty years old, and am at the tail end of the baby boom, which makes me one of those who may actually see a meager check each month when I "retire", however the system may collapse in upon itself, or get completely re-ordered before then. Either way, retirees that paid in to the system faithfully each week throughout their careers, are getting fucked. When they decided that after 44 months of work you became vested in SSI, it was a huge mistake. When they added disabled persons to the eligibility list, they made another. I believe that if the metrics involved in being able to claim disability were changed to protect ONLY those with true and absolute disabilities, the system would hold together a lot longer. I happen to personally know two individuals whop are on disability right now, and both of them could absolutely hold down a job with zero problems if they wanted to. Once declared "disabled" there is zero follow-up, so if you manage to scam your way on to the disability rolls, you're in like Johnny Flynn. One of the people i know collects 1,600 dollars a month from Uncle Sugar, and he makes about twenty five large on the side as an asbestos air monitor, charging a daily rate of $225 and collecting it in cash. The other guy collects less, $1,200 dollars, but he moonlights on a fishing boat helping tourists bait hooks and reel in fish out at the port. this brings in about 20 thousand a year in pay and tips.

The whole system is so ripe for abuse it sickens me. But here I sit anyway, working my ass off to pay for all the people who are getting something they neither need nor deserve. Now there is talk of increasing the SS deductions from my paycheck by 1%.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:29 AM   #39
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Russia the next country "temporarily seizing" private pension funds:
http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/...y-temporarily/
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #40
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I suppose that's why men of means in Russia kept their money in Cyprus (or other foreign jurisdictions).
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