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Old 12-12-2011, 10:52 AM   #1
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Midway has .223 JHP 75gr. TAP for cheap.

This is a great price for heavy TAP loads.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/118...oint-box-of-20

$18.49 X 20 rds. and they are nickel cased. That's awesome.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:52 AM   #2
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I'm on Midway's mailing list (good outfit). Recently the bombardment from them has been pretty intense - they're really trying to move product.

I've not been the worlds greatest fan of Hornady bullets myself, though I like the BC's they get with the different ogive design. They seem to have a tendency to be just a bit undersized for most of the bores I own, and aren't as accurate as Sierra in most of my guns. But as always, YMMV, and there's nothing wrong with that company. We're talking 10ths of thousandths tolerances here, in either case, with Sierra maybe being dead on, and Hornady being maybe .0002 small. Compared to most mil surplus, that's lucky to get into 2 moa - it's all great.

Now, this is from a guy who expects his AR to shoot inside 1/4 moa (and gets it). Most people would be so overjoyed at the improvement of the Hornady (anything) over mil surplus it wouldn't matter to them. But when my AR opens up to 1/2 moa, I get bent. If my Cooper bolt in .223 opens past 1/8th moa, well...there are "issues".

The best deals I've gotten from Midway are on brass, bullets, scopes, barrels (buyer beware on scopes - you get what you pay for, so things like Leupold are safe, other stuff, not so much), but I have to say Larry has always done right by me, no exceptions. That last buy of 1k Lake City brass has been some of the better brass I've gotten - at any price, and I've tried them all including the expensive double annealed stuff from Yurp. And the price was really right.

Of course, if you buy piece parts - that almost $1 a shot looks pretty crappy as a deal...lesse, about .20 for a projectile (less if those dogtown bullets pan out, haven't tried them yet), .20-30 for brass you can use 10 times - so 2-3c a shot, 3c for a primer, maybe 10c for powder if you use exotic stuff.....20+.03+..03+.10 = $.36 or about 1/3 that if you reload.

Nosler makes a 60 gr .223 partition that's real accurate and very punishing downrange for this kind of use - at least out to 4-500 yds. The real heavy stuff (anyone's) really is only for punching paper way out there, they all kinda lose their ambition at long ranges (get a .308 or larger for that kind of work). Closer in, speed kills better than mass, in .223, if my own experience counts for anything.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:45 PM   #3
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Yeah DC, my rig has it's quirks as well. It doesn't like steel rounds unless they're that filthy Brown Bear, but I can run nearly anything brass or nickel through it. Did you build your iron yourself? Mine is a build that took about a year to complete because of [mostly] money issues, but I think it's a fine piece of iron anyway. I used a Delton upper on a Spikes lower, put in a BCM extractor and bolt. The optics are a LaRue flip mount supporting a 3 x 1 non reticle looking through an Eotech 517. I like the 517 because it uses AA abtteries, and I have a bunch of AA Ni-Cads. I currently have quad rails, but will be switching them out for quad polymers instead. I also retired a number of steel mags in favor of P-mags, which have proven indestructible so far.

M daughter wanted a rifle instead of a carbine like mine, so I got a good deal from a buddy who sold me his basic AR with an A4 stock. It's at my local smith getting some furniture put on it for Christmas. She thinks it's broken, so she won't miss it.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:45 PM   #4
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That is a nice present.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:25 AM   #5
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Thanks KMS. Actually she already owns the rig, so I thought I would "pretty it up" for her by installing optics and rails. She has a tac light already, but no rails yet. The rig currently has round polymer hand guards and she has been begging for a set of quad-rails so she could put more furniture on it.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:24 AM   #6
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I wouldn't consider a gun being sensitive to the quality and fit of ammo a quirk - it's the norm, I believe, and the reason I own some guns that have never had factory ammo shot through them at all.

That's what being an accuracy freak does to you. I actually take the thing to benchrest matches just because the conventional wisdom is that it cannot possibly match a good bolt gun. This might be true - my record-holding* Cooper is better in the same round - but no one else has one that good, so I do fine with it, and it's fun to upset the type of person for which some saying is always taken without consideration.

SAAMI specs mean all factory ammo has to be a little undersized to fit any chamber out there - not yours. A rattle-fit makes for reliable function, but lousy accuracy. At the pressures involved, a bullet not starting out perfectly straight is conformed to the barrel crooked - and won't fly straight after that. The jump to the lands is different in every gun, and SAMMI ammo is never right at them, though any accuracy ammo is usually just touching - the bullet itself then locates the round perfectly centered.

Further, all factory ammo has some runout - it's either a little bent, or just not perfectly concentric. I've found this almost the most important measure for how well it will shoot in the AR platform (either my 15 or my 10). I use a little jig with a dial indicator to select out any rounds I make that don't come out perfect, and as a process control input. In the search for perfection, I bought dies from every manufacturer out there - and the results were surprising - with money no object, money turned out not to be indicative. The best for neck sizing only was the Lee Collet die, hands down. The best for full length sizing was the Dillon .223 sizing die (no matter what press was used). The much more expensive other brands - not as good, even the fancy micrometer ones and ones costing near $100 for a sizing die.

My 15 isn't one of the guns I really built, other than doing things like putting in a better trigger (made here in the shop), lapping the barrel, and things like that. It's mainly a stock Colt HBAR. All I did to that one was refine what was there (a lot, but otherwise nothing major - it was a job getting the tool marks out of the barrel). I wind up doing those things on almost every gun I own.

My particular AR rig is one case where a cheap scope worked out great - I used a Simmons Whitetail classic on it - about 100 bucks from Midway. Fits the gun and use just great, though the gun is now so accurate the fat crosshairs can hide the aim-point. But the aim point is very quick to pick up in lousy light for non-target uses.

I have one gun where all this seems not to matter. It's a 6mm PPC, bull barrel (1.4" diameter at both ends). I have a neat target where 4 different loads were fired by two different (good) shooters all into the same hole for 20 rounds at 100yds. However, that hole is much too big to win a match in classes where heavy 6 PPC's are allowed, almost 1/2" OD.

*The Cooper won the all time record at hunter benchrest at 100,200,300 yards with 80 consecutive X's in X rings the size of a pencil eraser at all three ranges. That cannot be broken, only tied - and it's a ~160 year record at the gun club I shoot with. They've since changed the rule to disqualify that one in "factory" class, even though it's pure factory (and it wouldn't matter - no one's done it in unlimited either). That's fine with me, I found out early that if I do too well all the time, the other guys don't have as much fun - and it's all about fun. I'll make another sleeper...I have one in the works now in Rem 260...

I know opinions vary on this, but I've never mounted a light on a gun. If someone with a lighted gun was attacking me, I know I'd appreciate the aim point - which I might not otherwise have in the dark...For those kinds of drills I'd have the light in my other hand, and held well away from me..."Why help them?"
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:11 PM   #7
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Wow! I'm in to shooting, but not at that level. I just try to keep it in a three inch circle at a hundred yards. The AR-15, the model 94, the SKS and the 275 will all do that pretty well. The sloppiest by far is the SKS, which requires more effort to stay in the zone, but I like it because I could drag it to the range behind my truck from a rope, and it would still fire. That piece of iron is indestructible. It has fallen out of tree stands, in to a pond, stream or lake more than a few times and has been loaded with mud after getting lost in the swamps along the St. Johns river, and is still in outstanding shape. The AR would have locked up tighter than a ducks ass if I dropped it in to the river. The SKS cleaned right up and fired without trouble. As far as the light, they are essential if you are hogging, because a good tac light can stun-blind a hog for an instant to give the dogs a better chance.
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:22 PM   #8
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We've had the same issues with SKS accuracy here at my range, with the additional one that I think I've never seen anyone quite get through a whole magazine without a jam. This could be in part due to the fact that around here, most of the SKS you see are the very cheap Asian ones - look like they were built with nothing but a welder and a file in Pakistan. Pretty crappy stuff. I've seen some east Yurp ones the looked pretty good - it's the manufacture, not the design, that counts. Hardly anyone claims better than 2 moa for them even with good homebrew ammo. The bore dimensions vary all too much - most of the time the bullets are a rattle fit in there.

A ducks ass must not be all that tight - my AR works fine after dropping it in water (but do drain the barrel!). The risk there is losing scope alignment. Interestingly, my 1911 isn't that great there - it really hates mud and it gets in easy - but the CZ is fine with dirt, it has trouble getting inside it.

Yeah, I got more into guns than most, because I wanted to compete, and have a change from feed-back engineering into something, anything, feedforward. I got so good at it so fast it got boring, though.

I have no such problems with my music - you can't get to the end in that one, there is no end to how much skill you can get, and even by normal standards, I've got a loooonnngg way to go there.

So now I mostly write music and try to learn to play it in that particular time slot, but I still keep in the gun game a little - could be handy at some point. Hope not, of course, but there it is. And it brings in some dough.
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
We've had the same issues with SKS accuracy here at my range, with the additional one that I think I've never seen anyone quite get through a whole magazine without a jam. This could be in part due to the fact that around here, most of the SKS you see are the very cheap Asian ones - look like they were built with nothing but a welder and a file in Pakistan. Pretty crappy stuff. I've seen some east Yurp ones the looked pretty good - it's the manufacture, not the design, that counts.
Mine is ex Czeckoslovakian military, and it came packed in Cosmoline that took a hell of a lot of time to clean out. Mine never jams, because we do not use the aftermarket 30 round mags. I use strippers and the internal belly mag it came with. We don't really shoot competitively, we do more of a survival and security thing, but we make it fun. When we go hogging, we will make a hunt out of it even if there are no hogs. Night ops are a blast. The range gives us a place to rationally and accurately tune up our rigs, and the swamps and woods give us nearly unlimited practice ground.
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Old 12-13-2011, 02:28 PM   #10
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Everybody else who likes 7.62 by 39 listen up here - this (ancona's) is the rig for that, most of what you'll find out there completely stinks by comparison.

A gun that jams can get you killed. Get an AR if in doubt and you need a carbine/rifle for quick shooting - few of them could actually be called bad.

I have to say, the old M1 carbines in .30 are a heck of a lot of fun too - and the most stolen weapon in WWII by the Germans, because they just work. Not real powerful (basically a .357 mag in a carbine) but hey - real fun.
Very quick handling too. Too bad everyone else seems to know this - they have been zooming in price the last few years. Enough friends have them I had to get dies and bullet molds for them - even though I don't have one (yet).
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Old 12-13-2011, 03:22 PM   #11
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Completely agree. Be careful with those $225.00 clones and knock offs in the market. If you want a solid weapon that was built so that country boy conscripts could easily be trained to use it reliably, get the real thing, but expect to see a price delta for a real one with a chrome barrel.

A dealer will very, very seldom bother with the amount of time it takes to clean a long-term storage weapon that has been on ice for four decades. The twist wrapped paper and cosmoline will give it away. Believe me, you will know it if it is cosmo.

EDIT: As for the AR, if you set it up how you like it, feed it the victuals it likes and keep it clean and "wet", it is an incredibly reliable weapon. Be careful using cheapo ammo though, you can wear out a barrel pretty quickly shooting crap.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:10 PM   #12
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Speaking of SKSs and cosmoline, I just picked up the $200 black Friday special from J&G, a 1975 Yugo . The cosmoline is so thick that the bolt barely moves! That is actually a good thing because it looks to be in great shape, at least the stock and bluing are, the barrel needs to be purged of cosmo before judging. I'm going to have a smelly, sticky, greasy weekend.

I agree to keep it basically stock, the aftermarket 30 round removable mags have a bad reputation for jams while the stock 10 round box is rock solid. I got the SKS for the same purpose as Ancona - a rock solid gun that will always work, even if it is not a precision competitor.

Ancona, you might want to give Techsights peep sights a try if you haven't already as they add 10" to the sight radius. I have a set on the way and will report on them. Also the Murray's firing pin kit is a good mod to reduce the chance of a slam-fire caused by a dirt, flee floating firing pin.

Originally Posted by Ancona :
Believe me, you will know it if it is cosmo.
Lol & amen

Originally Posted by DCFusor :
but the CZ is fine with dirt, it has trouble getting inside it.
I can see that since the CZ is about the tightest handgun I've ever seen. That is part of why I like them so much since they feel incredibly solid.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:26 PM   #13
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Bring on the original stuff man! The knock offs stand out to anyone in the "game". I have a big assortment of iron that is all blueprinted. If you don't know what it is, don't but it.
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