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Old 01-18-2017, 10:53 PM   #1
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Need Advice On Allocated PM

Hey,

Looking for your advice on allocated storage options.

I'm a first time metals investor simply looking to:
Move my AUD savings into silver (maybe gold if the ratio drops to like 45 in the future)
I'll be making monthly deposits from my Australian Bank account
I'll be Selling some silver about 1-2 times a year to pay some large bills which are in Australian dollars.

Details on what I'm looking for:
Allocated/pool allocated
Prefer to deal in Australian dollars (AUD)
Insured private vault (no banks)
Any location worldwide but if given the option I'd prefer to have it in Zurich Switzerland.
Trusted established company preferred
Audited by 3rd party
Reasonable storage fees/spreads



I signed up for ABC Bullion and bought a small amount of pool allocated silver.
I noticed that they have about a 6-7% spread on silver if my maths are correct (currently buy 745.9 / sell 694.76).
The only real reason I signed up to this one was that they deal in AUD and have free storage for pool allocated.

1.) What's a good spread for allocated silver/gold in your opinion? Do you think ABC Bullions spread is high?

I've been looking at other services such as:
bullionvault.com – seems to have a much better spread, low 0.5% fee + 0.48% yearly storage (does not deal in AUD)
perthmint.com.au – Deals in AUD but seems to have a very high storage fee (not sure on the spread)
bullioncapital.com – based on the demo account low spread 0.60% storage + 1% transaction fee
There are others but these are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head


2.) I heard that the metals are priced in USD, So am I correct in assuming that the conversion rate from silver > USD > AUD should not be any difference when compared to silver > AUD (ignoring any currency conversion fees)? Do you think I should be using a bullion service that deals in AUD to avoid these conversion fees?

Note: I'll be treating it like a long term savings account and only withdraw when I need to pay some large bills which are in AUD (1-2 times a year)



3.) Do you know of any other allocated services that might fit my needs?




The only thing I'm really thinking after I bought some allocated PM at abc bullion is that when a large bill comes around I'll be losing much more on the spread when compared to say bullionvaults low spread (even though it has free storage) as the market has to move 6% vs 0.5% due to the spread. However at Bullionvault I'll need to convert the funds back into AUD losing on conversion fee.

Note: I'm just using bullionvault as an example of a low spread bullion service.


4.)
What would you do in my situation? Do you think I should switch to another service with lower spreads and if so would having an account in a different currency be a factor for you?
Or
would you keep using ABC Bullion (higher spread but no storage fees)?


Let me know your thoughts

Cheers

Last edited by jono321; 01-18-2017 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:37 AM   #2
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Hi jono, welcome to the forum.

I don't use any of the vaulting services, so I don't have any personal experience to share, but they have been discussed a bit in the forums.

Bullionvault: http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f2/bullion-vault-239/

Goldmoney: http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f8/goldmoney-com-1198/
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Old 01-20-2017, 11:45 AM   #3
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these two ( BullionVault and Gold Money) were the ones that I felt comfortable with and several years later they seem to be doing just fine.

Easy to trade if thats what you fancy and you can do it anytime as long as you have internet access.
The real test ( if it happens ) is some kind of systemic market collapse and the possibility of military action to 'ensure the gold is safe'
Probably hardly matters if things go badly wrong ........

I'm UK based but my metal is in Zurich.
I think you can use different currencies to fund your account and subsequent purchases.
And once its converted to gold ( or silver) it becomes another currency anyway.
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Old 01-21-2017, 10:57 PM   #4
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Thanks for your help,
Looks like Gold Money would be good for under $20,000 and Bullion Vault for over $20,000.

From what I can tell on there website
Gold Money: silver - buy 3.99% sell 0% + 0.49% per year
Bullion Vault: silver - buy 0.50% sell 0.50% + 0.48 for 20k or more | 0.96% for 10k | 1.92% for 5k or under + what ever it cost to convert AUD to USD

So it looks like Gold Money would be the most value in my case considering it's available in AUD even though I'd be putting in over 20k, because I think the currency conversions from/to AUD - USD would be be like 2-3% anyway.

Besides I don't really feel that conformable keeping my silver/gold in Australia, the reason is for the confiscation laws we have here. If you google "Australia gold confiscation laws" you'll see what I'm talking about.

1.) Do you know if the Australian government confiscates your gold/silver do they simply take/steal it OR do they pay you money for it?

2.) If they pay you money whats stopping you from using that money to buy more gold/silver offshore eg bullion vault, gold money etc...?

If they do pay you then Maybe I might keep like 80% of my metal in ABC bullion with free storage and the rest in Gold Money. So I can sell the metals in gold money when I need some dollars as they have a lower premium.
Or maybe I'll just keep it all in Gold Money if the confiscation laws could be an issue in the future. Any Thoughts?


I'll sign up to Gold Money and see how it goes


Thanks again for you help
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:17 PM   #5
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Juno send some sun to New England for us, damn cold here now.
Been 17 yrs since I loved Aus and should have never flown home.
I am truly uncertain as to why you would risk payment liquidity and loss possibly greater than inflation in expense account.
Thrilled to read of another metals owner, but the system is not metal friendly.
Combining works yes, security of asset value short term is a gamble.
Separation of currency holdings for payments 50/50 maybe.
50% in metal as you wish to be utilized during gain cycle.
50% currency to cover absence of gain with the normality of cash.
I am long term metals other than change of color, shape, or numismatic value reduction for weight.
I would not dare to enter volatile silver to expenses account.
Every opportunity I do have to increase savings in non currency/paper form, I take it.
Volatility, security, liquidity, accessibility, and predictability... all should ideally not be part of your scheduled financial payment capability.

Now, by the end of this year 2017 beginning of 2018 there appears to be a significant restructuring in regards to metals recognition. Then we will be smiling if we hold what all others realize they need. Of course there are a multitude of maybes, especially in time thereof, our greatest asset and testing aspect.
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:07 PM   #6
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Of the two I think I prefer Bullionvault, possibly simply because they email me a statement every month ...........
I also enjoy setting up a sale at a higher price than is current and leaving the sale order open till filled. Childish but it keeps me happy as Im not (yet) forced to sell.
GM just buys it at the current price and makes their bit on the transaction fee.

The other thing I like is that there are several layers of transaction with Bullionvault before a bad guy holding me at gunpoint could get anything and two of those accounts would be phoning me to check up on unusual activity. Not easy when both phones seem to be not working at the only computer where I have access to the passwords ........

So the metal when sold gets turned into fiat digits in the 'back to back' account.
This then has to be transferred into an internet only linked savings account, then has to be further transferred to another linked current account which is my regular account.
Then further transferred to the bad guys bank ..............

How does this compare with coins in a nearby safe place and gun to head ?


Yeah I could be dead but at least my kids get an inheritance
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