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Old 10-18-2013, 10:39 AM   #81
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:15 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
... Till then, it's certainly safe to eat atlantic fish, if you can find any ...
Not sure I want anything from the Gulf of Mexico (remember post #18).
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:02 PM   #83
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Right, different problem, but using the oceans as an open sewer is the big-picture problem. Seems we are overcoming its ability to self-purify.

I'd avoid bottom feeders (shrimp and others) anyway, they tend to be the most contaminated with whatever is out there. Always have. I have noticed the quality of even canned tuna take a turn for the worse - a lot - over the last decade anyway, and kind of cut it out of my diet, it just doesn't look and smell like good food anymore, which is enough reason for me.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #84
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The only tuna I consume is caught by my crews when we do our annual pilgrimage to the South Atlantic to work on Ascension Auxiliary Air Field on Ascension Island. We historically catch between 1500 - 2000 pounds of big eye and yellow fin tuna. We freeze it and each man can bring back an 'estimated' 50 pounds. The estimating is done by someone that for some reason, never seems to run out of tuna. ;-)

I stopped eating Gulf seafood after BP poisoned the entire center of it with toxic chemicals and crude oil. Actually, that oil volcano is still pissing out oil. It never completely stopped. In addition, several abandoned wellheads nearby are spitting out oil as well. Part of the BP funded investigation talked about how the gulf ecosystem has been dealing with oil seeps for millenia, so their little nary release was just a flyspeck on an elephants ass or something to that effect. They completely failed to include anything about the Corexit and how it decimated reds, shrimp, dolphins, turtles, and microscopic plankton in what is now thousands of square miles of gulf water from teh surface to the seabed.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:21 PM   #85
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I love tuna. Never had to worry about one killing me before. Kind of ironic that the ocean is going to get even with us for dumping in it. This is going to work way better than birth control on keeping the population down, which is actually kind of terrifying.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:29 PM   #86
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Super typhoon Fransisco is headed for Japan next week. It has winds exceeding 160mph with gusts to 195. Hopefully this monster doesn't go near Fuku.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #87
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It's a matter of flow, not amount. It's actually true that the ridiculously porous formation under the Gulf has leaked far more than BP's wells - but it took millions of years, where they did it in a few weeks.
Flow rate...Where have I heard that before?
And that's not counting a few other sources that are at least as deadly, that haven't popped up to spook us (and maybe kill us fast) yet. Have any idea how much methane is tied up in clathrates undersea that could all just decide to be released at once in some earthquake, or warming event?
It's not all in nice, safe places, by far. And there's enough that there's plenty interest in mining the stuff if someone can figure out a way to do it without just losing it all to the atmosphere. It's a reasonable bet that this explains "the bermuda triangle" effects - methane poisoning when a little was dislodged undersea and boaters either breathed it or ignited it.

Same issue with Fukushima, really. We all get some sv of rad exposure in a life, it's a matter of rate - are you getting damage faster than the natural mechanisms can repair it.
Note on the xkcd chart - a lot of it is now due to our modern medicine system and flying. But also, we old farts grew up during the decay of all the nuclear fallout from atmospheric weapons testing, and it's only now getting back to normal (the longer lived stuff has a tendency to get buried, the short has largely decayed already). During my youth, background (external) and internal consumption of radioactive stuff was about double what it is now!

As I get older, the bad habits that used to not matter to my health (at least as far as I could tell - I'd quit for awhile and nothing would change) - now really matter, as my bod just can't repair the damage as fast anymore, everything takes longer to heal.

Example - I just went from being a pretty hard smoker (3 pack/day) to vaping, and it's about the same nicotine as before. But I instantly (literally, the next day) went from coughing for half an hour in the morning to kick out the phlegm - to the point of seeing spots or tossing cookies - to nothing, just from the difference in the damage due to things other than nicotine in cigarettes. In two weeks (and it's a struggle, as there are other strange habits I have to lose, like always having a lighter in my hand) - my lung capacity has gone up to where I no longer have to pause at each flight of stairs.
When I was 30 - half my current age - quit for two years and no change noticed at all, wound up starting again.

You might never have worried about tuna, but it's long been a risk for mercury, the worst sort - methyl-Hg, as it concentrates up the food chain and tuna are pretty near the top. End result, you wind up a little brain damaged - mad hatter syndrome (but in this case mercury, not arsenic). It's just that now you know the risks. Or some of them - I don't yet have data on whether the tuna is "hot" the other way yet. It's a fairly safe bet it'll be getting hotter worldwide over the next few years, though, as everything (including what the tuna eat, and what that eats, going on down the chain) gets mixed at a rate we don't fully know.

Remember, our current long life expectancy is a fairly new thing in history - we used to accept that most people a little after 65 (is it a coincidence that was the retirement year for SS not all that many generations ago?). We may simply be returning to the norm - it seems to be the case in the US, we are no longer seeing the increase like we used to. We just substituted one set of evils for another set. Not that the norm was good - just normal.

I'll not attempt to be an apologist for any of this stuff - just trying to input some perspective as I see it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:28 PM   #88
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DC,
Actually my friend, you are the only person so far that has given ANY sincere and objective frame of reference to the whole Fukushima nightmare. Thanks for the voluminous input, without which I would not have a clear understanding of what is going on.

Someone needs to stop that Gunderson knucklehead, as well as Caldicott. They both are spewing nothing but fear wrapped in a PHD.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:22 PM   #89
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"They both are spewing nothing but fear wrapped in a PHD."
Thanks - I might swipe that line, it's a great one. You seem to come up with them pretty often. Cheers, have one on me. On second thought, make it a double, you've earned it. And I haven't even read your latest rant yet.

I guess we old farts, who largely have already had more fun than the current batch ever will, have a little different take on all this. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. Else all that education I subjected myself to has no meaning.

In my own case, a single digit % increase in likelihood of say, cancer 30-40 years from now means nothing - it'd have to reach into the grave to get me, gives one a bit of perspective, having lived through things like the Cuban missile crisis and others - yeah, I "prepped" a bomb shelter, even. Don't have kids myself, I feel sorry for the young, but these are only symptoms of the issues we create for them (and our ancestors for us) due to human nature, which sadly is never "different this time". At least not so far. We're still getting ready for the last war, and the wrong one, at that.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:41 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
I guess we old farts, who largely have already had more fun than the current batch ever will, have a little different take on all this.
they will simply redefine "fun". Foraging, gleaning, etc. My wife refuses to buy into the Catholic guilt thing about the kids. "Thats their life, this is ours." She certainly is solid in that belief.

edited to add: we call it paragliding, they simply call it running from raiders....
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:56 PM   #91
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DCFusor Said:
I guess we old farts, who largely have already had more fun than the current batch ever will, have a little different take on all this. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. Else all that education I subjected myself to has no meaning.

DC, the education thing might be something you were subjected to, but everything I have learned since 1979 I taught myself. I walked away from high school in my Junior Year and never looked back. I've learned foreign languages, calculus, construction estimating, engineering and more and I've done it by myself. We're the last of a generation where one could actually be an engineer without having to have a masters or bachelors degree from some school or another, and still be respected in the working community.

We only needed the skill.

I design and set up steam sparge units at leaking underground fuel tanks yet I have no degree. My plans are regularly stamped by the State of Florida not because I have a scrap of paper, they're stamped approved because I know what the fuck I am doing.......just like you, only without the scholastic underwriting.

I also perform industrial dismantlement on close-quarter projects where inches separate what goes with what stays. I've NEVER missed. I'll bet I could go to a meeting of fifty people and pick you out from the crowd, because you sound just like me!
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:41 PM   #92
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I think you misread me a little. I said "subjected myself to" rather than "was subjected to".

I too, quit the formal education system early. I skipped out of high school, as while a sophomore, I was already a teaching assistant for senior physics/chem/bio, and was taught perfect standard English by my parents, and thus aced all the sats (800s*)...so I got an all-expenses-paid scholarship to a college, where the same thing happened - more or less, and I got a great job offer (6 figs in the early '70s was nothing to sneeze about) and left before graduating.

So I actually have no official schooling papers at all...I just learned on my own, because I wanted to know, and be able to do fun stuff. A lot more than those clowns would ever teach me I'm pretty sure, since I worked for them in college (like a grad student often does, but I wasn't even a grad), having them take credit for my work since they couldn't do it themselves.

As a result, I got "engineer", then "staff engineer" then "Veep of engineering" etc on my business cards. No one cared about stupid academic creds if you could do the stuff, and I could and did.

Now if I bothered with cards, I guess I'd put "owner, and philosopher-king" on them, or "chief scientist" or whatever. I earned it the hard way - school of hard knocks. But that was easier for this free spriit than bowing down to some "teacher" with half my brains on a subject I already knew more about than he, or even if less. I don't respond well to attempts at subjugation. I've been lucky, though, to have had some key mentors. Totally different deal.

I've never gotten a good job from a place where I hit HR first. Always through some other person at a firm that I met some way, who decided they should hire me, and then and only then did HR get their grubby little hands on the real truth - but by then, it never mattered. I was hired already.
Which is a good thing. I find it hard to lie about having 5 years experience in junk that's only existed for 3, the kind of thing they often demand, or go for ridiculous certifications that are narrowly focused on some outfit's current product line.

We are probably the last of those who could pull that off, other than those, now famous for skipping out early to do some startup that was hugely successful - I'm sure that most who skip out who try, don't achieve that status, or keep it if they do, it's about as rare as winning a lottery. Actually, more rare, I only need one hand to count all I know of. I lacked the social and financial skills to do that at first, so wound up at various "beltway bandits" as a superstar engineer...till I caught on to the other skills I needed.

That's how I know what you go through dealing with government. I've hit my share of response matrices in proposals...we both know that game pretty well.

From then on, it's been starting and running my own biz of one sort or another, finally retiring.
Sort of. You can't really stop, you just do things with less eye to money and more to fun. Which rarely (or never) involve government money. The paperwork just isn't worth it for me. I'd bet you have to pay at least one or more people just for that. I could never stomach that. For running a civvie biz, I just wrote software to take care of all the paper stuff - my accountant thought well of my reports that laid it all out for him and made his job super easy - and very part time.

You probably could pick me out of a crowd, because in fact - I AM just like you in a heck of a lot of ways. Except where you work, they probably wouldn't accept my current appearance very gracefully - I look like the aging rock star I used to be (haven't shaved or had a hair cut in about a decade - but you know that if you've visited my forums lately - that's my real picture - hey, a guy has to have a hobby).

It's a fun facade - it instantly eliminates all who judge a book (incorrectly) by its cover, saving me no end of issues with small-minded types - they self-eliminate from trying to work with (or on) me. They can't tell I'm smart till I open my mouth or keyboard and let the true me come out.

Then they either run like hell or offer me a job. They still don't ask where I learned all this. No one is truly self-taught though. I was born right...and we all learn what we know "standing on the shoulders of giants", don't you think? Sure, we all have to earn it either way. I found I had a ton more motivation learning what I wanted to, rather than memorizing the curriculum as demanded, in some particular order, that's all, so I did better that way. And that way, you actually learn it - memorization is for disks, not humans. I prefer understanding. And pushing limits, not just rising to barely meet them.

*Don't know how it is now, but at the time the SAT tests were based on what you were supposed to have learned by the time you took them, according to the current curriculum. Since I was at least 2 years ahead, killing them didn't mean I was particularly smarter than anyone by itself - I was two years ahead since I was helping teach people 2 years ahead...that's all, so they seemed pretty simple to me, and by golly all multiple choice, which is easy to guess mostly when 3 of the four answers are stupid. So hopefully, I'm not bragging, I just got real lucky on that.

Sorry for the OT here, but a fun story - an anti-rant.

I was "elected" to give the keynote speech at a fusion conference recently, based on recent results from my lab. I showed up early, since I was nervous (that happened a lot even with a lot of stage experience - at least till you get going, the butterflies torture you). The other guys, suit types, all assumed I was one of the catering staff, due to how I looked, and since I didn't care, sure, I'll get you coffee, a sandwich, a chair, whatever.

Then I got called on stage to give my presentation - you should have seen the looks from the crowd! Not only at first, but after the presentation, where I showed how and why I'd broken all their records - partly due to measuring what was really going on, rather than depending on what turned out to be vastly over-simplified assumptions. Victory was sweet!

What I find humorous, and what my next such outing will cover (since I've done it again, re breaking records), is that I actually know more science history and detail than most of those guys put together. My latest breakthrough is based on something Wolfgang Pauli said in about 1935, but which the fusion community has totally ignored all this time...I won't get a prize (after all, I didn't think of it myself, just remember something they forgot - nuclear spin conservation), but I still find it funny. Yet they have the "paper quals" I lack.

You might even guess, I joined you in that double. Cheers!
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:52 AM   #93
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think we covered the Generalists vs Specialists discussion somewhere here but its clear to me that Fusor is one of the few who is a real Generalist and capable of thinking outside the box whilst drawing understanding from many areas of specialty.

Thanks for being here Fusor and long may you show those experts that you can even do catering at a level way beyond them
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:38 PM   #94
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ancona, just saw your comment on modern survival blog. Thought, "my, this guy gets around.."
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:35 PM   #95
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All of us who are smart, type fast, and have something to say get around...I even have my own site as well as bothering you guys and a few others. I know I'm not a plant, government or otherwise, though like some others here, I used to work for them - no longer, and no, I don't approve of what they are doing now.

And all these compliments - we now need a "blushing" icon or something.

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Old 10-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #96
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you might not be a plant Fusor but you look like youve done a bit of 'growmore' in your time
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:02 PM   #97
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Hey DC,
I thoroughly enjoy the information you provide and although I love to poke fun, I take what you write completely seriously. Your knowledge base is quite incredible and you have a most interesting life story (and haircut). Thank-you for the time you take to try to educate the regular folks out here like me.
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:37 PM   #98
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A 7.3 magnitude earthquake just hit Japan right off the coast from Fukushima. I cannot imagine how scary that is for the workers still laboring away at that heap of radioactive rubble. That's got to just curdle their stomach juice when quakes strike. No word on whether or not a tsunami is expected, but I suppose we'd have heard something by now if it had. i wonder if some day, through some miracle or another, we'll hear something good come from Fukushima instead of all the horror.
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:14 PM   #99
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and two typhoons poised to hit. Apparently Japan is about to pass a whistleblowers law punishing whistleblowers with ten years for reporting on Fukishima.
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Old 10-29-2013, 10:24 AM   #100
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heres another Fukishima article with videos:
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2013/10...Alert+Press%29
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