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Old 12-02-2012, 06:01 PM   #1
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Wipe Out Humans - Bill Gates - Vaccines are "Best Way" to Depopulate Planet

first there is this (google gave me 1,750,000 results):
http://archive.org/details/WipeOutHu...populatePlanet

then I read about the starving children in Darfur getting their "hot meals and vaccine" provided by Bil gates, then today on drudge:

City: Give Us Your Guns, Get A Free Flu Shot - And A Wegman's Gift Card
http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...mans-gift-card

ugggh.
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:50 PM   #2
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Wow, I didn't really used to like Bill Gates, but the man is a genius.

I never really got the whole helping the starving people in Africa thing because I understood that those countries can only support a certain size population & if you constantly have to feed the people that are starving with food-aid it doesn't solve the problem & makes it worse when the population expands. (Average woman has 5 children + so you can see that exponentially the scale of the problem you create & we have created is unsustainable.)

I've always told myself as cruel as it is, if anyone came up with a way to provide food aid so that you could save existing human lives but combine it with a sterilization program or 1 child per family incentive then that would be something I could get behind.

At the moment giving food aid to countries whose land can't support them is like the Fed artificially printing food that isn't backed by up by real producing land (gold) when you should really let the market painfully correct itself rather than artificially inflating the food supply which creates a population bubble that when it burst will literally kill hundreds of millions of people. (His solution lets the market correct itself without killing anyone - genius.)

Though I know my opinion is controversial.
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:20 AM   #3
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The full video for the TED conference is posted here:

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/bill_gates.html

From the comments:
Quote :
...
OK someone help me out here.
What exactly does Gates mean in this talk when he says that " if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care and reproductive health services we can lower that (population growth) by perhaps 10 0r 15 %."
This statement is fueling the conspiracy theorist accusations that vaccines are a government plot to sterilize humanity. This talk has gone viral as "proof".
While not negating the benefits of population reduction in regard to the CO2 problem...( I personally have no problem with sterilizing humanity )
But women are being scared away from giving their children life saving vaccines and some clarification as to meaning of these statements would be helpful.
...
To provide clarity, when Gates says "If we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care and reproductive healths services we can lower [population growth] by perhaps 10 or 15%" that is due in large part to decreased birth rates. In developing & low income countries, birth rates can be as high as 6 because of these factors (including limited access to birth control and lower life expectancies). So if you can increase the likelihood that a child survives birth and is healthy during development and childhood, it usually decreases birthrates because families and mothers now do not have the same concerns of having lots of kids because they fear they will not make it. Birth rates in nearly all developed countries are at or below 2. Think of some of the economic benefits of a decreased birth rate... with a birth rate of 2 compared to 6, you are able to spend more money per child for education, healthcare, food and resources; putting less strain on families, ecosystems, governments, and NGO agencies that support these families and children in need. As more money is available to invest per child, the likelihood of a healthy, educated lifestyle increases. This is multiple facet win- lower birth rates due to educating & empowering women, providing access to birth control (& education about birth control), and better healthcare simultaneously decreases poverty, advances education and economic development, and decreases the strain on our ecosystems to provide more services due to a larger population. Did that make sense? Lester Brown writes some amazing books on the subject. He is the president of the Earth Policy Institute, an amazing source of information for the environment and society.
...
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Unbeatable View Post:
Wow, I didn't really used to like Bill Gates, but the man is a genius.

I never really got the whole helping the starving people in Africa thing because I understood that those countries can only support a certain size population & if you constantly have to feed the people that are starving with food-aid it doesn't solve the problem & makes it worse when the population expands. (Average woman has 5 children + so you can see that exponentially the scale of the problem you create & we have created is unsustainable.)

I've always told myself as cruel as it is, if anyone came up with a way to provide food aid so that you could save existing human lives but combine it with a sterilization program or 1 child per family incentive then that would be something I could get behind.

At the moment giving food aid to countries whose land can't support them is like the Fed artificially printing food that isn't backed by up by real producing land (gold) when you should really let the market painfully correct itself rather than artificially inflating the food supply which creates a population bubble that when it burst will literally kill hundreds of millions of people. (His solution lets the market correct itself without killing anyone - genius.)

Though I know my opinion is controversial.
Not only is your opinion controversial, but unethical. I am always amazed at how people have ideas how others can sacrifice to save the planet, but never include themselves.

Planet earth does not have a food shortage problem. Planet earth has a food HOARDING/ DISTRIBUTION problem. It is manipulated just like the PM's.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:31 PM   #5
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PMBug, thanks for that. That explains a lot.

I'm 54.

world population 1970: 3.6 billion

world population 2012: 7 billion

edited to add: the world population has doubled in less than one lifetime.

this is NOT a distribution problem. This is overshoot, and nature has a way of dealing with overshoot.

It frustrates me to no end the incessant demand for more and more growth where I work (grocery store). We beat projections by (fill in the blank). We're up (12, 15,7, 10 whatever percent.) Every day, and every day they are rejoicing. Yet my 11 year old can see that it is not sustainable. I asked the store director how he thinks we can continue this growth, and he said we'll steal the business from all the other (1) stores in town.

Sigh.

This is a small town (pop 5000). Five years ago, corporate would send us a plaque if we did more than 5000. in sales in one day (in produce). Now, if we do less than 10,000 they want to know whats wrong.

I would say that we are no different than bacteria in a petri dish, but bacteria are smarter.

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:47 PM   #6
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this is the real elephant in the room.

Most of our resource problems seem to be caused by too many people creating too much demand and anything we do to improve things only seems to result in further population growth.

I wish no one harm but even more important is to not harm the planet that nurtures us all.

But the crap that they seem to want to put in all vaccines, is a clear indication that they do not have our best interests in mind.

The system ( ie big pharma ) is not about maintaining health, its about managing symptoms )-:

So why would they want to reduce the numbers of medically dependant people ?
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post:
Not only is your opinion controversial, but unethical. I am always amazed at how people have ideas how others can sacrifice to save the planet, but never include themselves.
The population growth rate in Western Europe and USA where most of us are from is either pretty stable or declining.

Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post:
Planet earth does not have a food shortage problem. Planet earth has a food HOARDING/ DISTRIBUTION problem. It is manipulated just like the PM's.
I'd love to live on a planet earth that has enough resources (food, energy, land) to provide for an exponentially growing population but sadly given that the size of our earth and it's resources are finite I think your solution of feeding without introducing some birth control measures is far more unethical.

Even more so given that unlike most, you probably understand that the US dollar has some serious problems and that the likelihood of the developed world even being able to maintain its current food aid program (Never mind exponentially increasing it as your approach requires) is extremely unlikely.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:18 PM   #8
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Back in a day, mortality rate amongst children in poor countries warranted stable/sustainable population, even when women were giving births as frequently, as physiologically possible. 10+ children/woman was a norm. But given the infant/children mortality rates, just about enough of them were reaching adulthood, to sustain the population.

Enters modern medicine/vaccines, and all that goodies. Mentality/culture cannot change overnight. Infant/children survival rates did change n overnight, drastically.

Here we are, booming population in countries that have ZERO chance, to sustain it.

Good luck with morality feeding them all. Unfortunately, morality doesn't stands a chance against the reality.

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Old 12-03-2012, 04:07 PM   #9
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Population is not the elephant in the room. Misallocation of resources (GREED) is the problem. It is simply mankind's heart is sinful

Think of the amount of arable land that is currently wasted. It could grow an enourmous amount of food. Instead it is used for tobacco, industrial, commercial and residential buildings that could be built elsewhere and use the land for agricultural purposes.

Some of the best land in the world is under concrete and buildings.

To focus on population as the problem is short-sighted, immoral, and reveals the greedy hearts of those who make that claim.

When man turns his back on God's rules for life and living, you end up with the disasters we currently face, and the equally immoral and murderous solutions that are being promoted.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:04 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bushi View Post:
Back in a day, mortality rate amongst children in poor countries warranted stable/sustainable population, even when women were giving births as frequently, as physiologically possible. 10+ children/woman was a norm. But given the infant/children mortality rates, just about enough of them were reaching adulthood, to sustain the population.

Enters modern medicine/vaccines, and all that goodies. Mentality/culture cannot change overnight. Infant/children survival rates did change n overnight, drastically.

Here we are, booming population in countries that have ZERO chance, to sustain it.

Good luck with morality feeding them all. Unfortunately, morality doesn't stands a chance against the reality.

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Bushi, the ONLY reason we have been able to achieve what we have today is because of the advent of the oil age, which has allowed for cheap, seemingly limitless agriculture, (and thus a temporary population explosion) and pharmaceuticals (also made from petroleum) which allow people to live longer. With the cheap oil virtually gone and 90% of the Earths resources now consumed, it's only a matter of time.... as I said in an earlier thread, I believe "gleaning" is going to become a very important profession....

keep in mind that this morbidly obese, materialistic generation is one of the few generations in mankinds history that thinks they can "retire". What a concept...

and my personal feeling is that the reason the majority of the population is obese is because of our zillion energy slaves powered by oil and the fact that we have somehow managed to consume millions of years of sequestered energy in only one hundred years.

diesel and the ICE made agriculture so much easier. If you don't think a gallon of diesel has a lot of energy in it, then put a gallon in your truck, drive until you run out of fuel, and push it back to where you started.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:11 PM   #11
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Hi jetstream,

This is all great, but first, it is idealistic, secondly, it is unrealistic, and third, it does not do away with the sad reality of math, that says that exponential growth can only go for so long on a finite planet. Even is we demolish all the buildings, occupying allegedly the best lands, even if we all become vegetarians, because it is more effective per acre, and even if we redistribute all the food the best way possible- so let's assume that every family on the planet has twice the amount of food it needs to survive - all we need, is to wait a generation, or maybe two at most - and we are back at square one, ie not enough food for everyone.

Unless we assume, that we can grow food production on that tiny blue speckle in the huge nothingness, that our Earth is, at the same rate, as our population grows. Which I dare say, is a pipe dream.

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Old 12-03-2012, 05:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
this is the real elephant in the room.

Most of our resource problems seem to be caused by too many people creating too much demand and anything we do to improve things only seems to result in further population growth.

I wish no one harm but even more important is to not harm the planet that nurtures us all.

But the crap that they seem to want to put in all vaccines, is a clear indication that they do not have our best interests in mind.

The system ( ie big pharma ) is not about maintaining health, its about managing symptoms )-:

So why would they want to reduce the numbers of medically dependant people ?
someone emailed me this the other day:
9 Questions That Stump Every Pro-Vaccine Advocate And Their Claims
http://govtslaves.info/9-questions-t...-their-claims/
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jetstream View Post:
Population is not the elephant in the room. Misallocation of resources (GREED) is the problem. It is simply mankind's heart is sinful

Think of the amount of arable land that is currently wasted. It could grow an enourmous amount of food. Instead it is used for tobacco, industrial, commercial and residential buildings that could be built elsewhere and use the land for agricultural purposes.

Some of the best land in the world is under concrete and buildings.

To focus on population as the problem is short-sighted, immoral, and reveals the greedy hearts of those who make that claim.

When man turns his back on God's rules for life and living, you end up with the disasters we currently face, and the equally immoral and murderous solutions that are being promoted.

Whoa there bud, I wouldn't say that because the world's food supply is being hoarded = 'mankind's heart is sinful'. It's the heart of the powers who re-allocate this food that have sinful hearts.

Humans in general are not born this way. Even the power that be who dictate this, were trained/conditioned at such a young age to think this way.

Just sayin'. Both are opinions but wanted to clarify a bit there.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:10 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ILOVETRADING View Post:
Whoa there bud, I wouldn't say that because the world's food supply is being hoarded = 'mankind's heart is sinful'. It's the heart of the powers who re-allocate this food that have sinful hearts.

Humans in general are not born this way. Even the power that be who dictate this, were trained/conditioned at such a young age to think this way.

Just sayin'. Both are opinions but wanted to clarify a bit there.
According to the Bible, humans - ALL of them - are born sinful. Every single one of them.

Actually "I" didn't say mankind's heart is sinful. God said it. I'm just a message boy. (For instance, Romans 3:10-18)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


No one is a "good person". Only if you measure yourself against someone who you think is worse, can anyone possibly believe they are good.

Back to the argument here, it is wrong to argue that if you change the effect, you will change the cause. It must be the other way around.

Controlling population is not fixing the problem The problem is greed in the heart of man. Unless you change the heart, you will still have the same problem. You might have fewer people with the same problem, but you still have that problem.

Overpopulation is a horrendous myth. Cities may be overcrowded, but the world is not. Why? Once again because of greed and control.

Until people are willing to deal with the real issue, they will be forever destined to spin their wheels in increasingly useless efforts to solve the issue.

An example:

India. Does India have an overpopulation problem? Not at all. India has a religious problem. A major problem there is food. But consider this:

Since 1954 the USA has shipped millions of tonnes of food aid to India - to the Indian government (not private businesses or agencies). Rats have consumed more than half of this food at the docks and storage facilities! Because of Hinduism's belief in reincarnation, rats and sacred cows may not be killed! It would take a train 3000 miles long to haul the grain eaten by Indian rats in a single year! Also, the sacred cows in India eat enough food to feed most of Asia! And the Hindu temples contain a vast fortune of gold, rubies, sapphires and other precious stones in their statues - which are worshipped as idols.
Above quote from: http://www.christianaction.org.za/ne...ic_poverty.htm

So it is not a population problem. It is a problem with man's heart - their religion.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:01 AM   #15
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Well I will not question anybody's religious beliefs, but what I will always do, is I will point out where it clashes with the reality.

I do not really dig the concept of a religion that tries to convince me that I am "sinful" or otherwise "bad", just because I was born, or just because I simply am. When I am doing bad things, I am sinful, when I am doing good things, I am not - as simple as that. This whole concept of children being born "sinful", and some person dying two thousands yrs before they were even born, to redeem their "sins" (that they never have had a chance to conduct, yet, in the first place), and then the need for some magic ritual, to wash away that "original sin", frankly, is utterly ridiculous, if you ask me. Anybody who has children of his own, and see how wonderful, utterly good, immaculate persons they are, when treated with respect, dignity, love and care - will understand that intuitively & immediately, unless his brain is seriously poisoned by some religious crap. The crap, that has been invented for no other purpose, but to CONTROL the minds of the plebeians. Myself, I was born and risen as a Catholic Christian, and it took me good few years of my early adulthood, to try & get rid of that pre-conditioned crap from my brain.

Secondly, every time I hear "these are the words of God", I say "fine, let's go, and have a chat with Him, if you can tell me where & how, because I want to hear these first hand". Otherwise, it is some MAN'S words, who CLAIMS, that he was talking directly to Him, and because of that, I must obey what he says. And I am sorry, but when it clashes with MY conscience, MY feelings what is right, and what is wrong, I will call BS on his "divine" claims.

Lastly, God Almighty's words or not, it did not address my argument about exponential population growth, and physical impossibility of keeping up with that growth, with infinite, exponential food production growth, on a finite planet, with very finite resources.

I guess those, who were (allegedly) "talking to God", all these thousands years ago, and writing "His" (allegedly) words into "sacred" (allegedly) books, weren't digging the math too well, either (this one for a change is not alleged, this is one and only FACT, in the whole sentence). Or, if they were indeed talking to Him, as they claim they were - is it God himself, in his omnipresence, all-might, who doesn't dig simple high-school math? That would be slightly embarrassing, and very self contradictory.


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Last edited by bushi; 12-04-2012 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Unbeatable View Post:
The population growth rate in Western Europe and USA where most of us are from is either pretty stable or declining.



I'd love to live on a planet earth that has enough resources (food, energy, land) to provide for an exponentially growing population but sadly given that the size of our earth and it's resources are finite I think your solution of feeding without introducing some birth control measures is far more unethical.

Even more so given that unlike most, you probably understand that the US dollar has some serious problems and that the likelihood of the developed world even being able to maintain its current food aid program (Never mind exponentially increasing it as your approach requires) is extremely unlikely.
Unbeatable, you think it's great because you think you're on Bill Gates' team, but guess what: You're not. In fact, you're next in line to be cleaned, shaven and sterilized. Bill Gates' parents were eugenicists and would have all off us killed or turned into zombie slaves if they could. We are animals to them.

The solution is to quit giving aid, so local farmers can make a living at farming. How can you sell corn in Ethiopia when the world dumps free corn all over the country? You can't. Hence they'll never be able to support themselves. But this is all by design. Do you think TPTB want Africa, with all its land and resources to become a competing force? No way. They'll milk it dry and use everything they learned against you.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #17
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p.s. All the MSM talks of overpopulation are a BS distraction, a lame excuse for food-price inflation (which is actually caused by money-printing of course), and an excuse to take over more control of our lives.

If overpopulation was a real issue, it would be too expensive to eat and support yourself. And it wouldn't happen overnight; it would happen slowly over decades, and populations would decline naturally for other reasons than they do today.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bushi View Post:
Well I will not question anybody's religious beliefs, but what I will always do, is I will point out where it clashes with the reality.

I do not really dig the concept of a religion that tries to convince me that I am "sinful" or otherwise "bad", just because I was born, or just because I simply am. When I am doing bad things, I am sinful, when I am doing good things, I am not - as simple as that. This whole concept of children being born "sinful", and some person dying two thousands yrs before they were even born, to redeem their "sins" (that they never have had a chance to conduct, yet, in the first place), and then the need for some magic ritual, to wash away that "original sin", frankly, is utterly ridiculous, if you ask me. Anybody who has children of his own, and see how wonderful, utterly good, immaculate persons they are, when treated with respect, dignity, love and care - will understand that intuitively & immediately, unless his brain is seriously poisoned by some religious crap. The crap, that has been invented for no other purpose, but to CONTROL the minds of the plebeians. Myself, I was born and risen as a Catholic Christian, and it took me good few years of my early adulthood, to try & get rid of that pre-conditioned crap from my brain.

Secondly, every time I hear "these are the words of God", I say "fine, let's go, and have a chat with Him, if you can tell me where & how, because I want to hear these first hand". Otherwise, it is some MAN'S words, who CLAIMS, that he was talking directly to Him, and because of that, I must obey what he says. And I am sorry, but when it clashes with MY conscience, MY feelings what is right, and what is wrong, I will call BS on his "divine" claims.

Lastly, God Almighty's words or not, it did not address my argument about exponential population growth, and physical impossibility of keeping up with that growth, with infinite, exponential food production growth, on a finite planet, with very finite resources.

I guess those, who were (allegedly) "talking to God", all these thousands years ago, and writing "His" (allegedly) words into "sacred" (allegedly) books, weren't digging the math too well, either (this one for a change is not alleged, this is one and only FACT, in the whole sentence). Or, if they were indeed talking to Him, as they claim they were - is it God himself, in his omnipresence, all-might, who doesn't dig simple high-school math? That would be slightly embarrassing, and very self contradictory.


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My mom shot herself when I was six, Dad drank himself to death shortly thereafter. Lived on the streets and in correctional facilities until I was 27; when I decided to straighten up, my mentor bombarded me with various books on various religions to read; here's one that had me from the git-go:

The Sermon on the Mount: The Key to Success in Life



"whether you believe Jesus Christ was a misguided fanatical lunatic or the son of God, no matter, his teachings are the most studied of anyone on the face of the earth." That, the first line, sucked me in.

Bing and I were married in the Baptist church in Mindanao; the Catholic church wouldn't marry us because I'm not Catholic and the priest said we were condemned to hell because we got married in the Baptist church. The Catholic church saved my wife and sons life (her brother was fighting with Abu Sayaf and she got in a jackpot). Too bad its not black and white.

The priest told us to go forth and multiply, Bing said how are we supposed to feed the children? and he said God will provide. She said he's not doing a very good job. Later on AS kidnapped the priest and executed him. I have three separate sets of neighbors who have three separate versions of Christianity. Each one thinks the other is wrong, and each one has told me on separate occasions that they think it will be OK to kill your non-believing neighbor after the collapse. (They use quotes from the bible to justify this). I do not see any difference in this and the mujahedin in Afghanistan beheading infidels. People of the book indeed.

this topic is a sticky wicket.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mike View Post:
p.s. All the MSM talks of overpopulation are a BS distraction, a lame excuse for food-price inflation (which is actually caused by money-printing of course), and an excuse to take over more control of our lives.

If overpopulation was a real issue, it would be too expensive to eat and support yourself. And it wouldn't happen overnight; it would happen slowly over decades, and populations would decline naturally for other reasons than they do today.
pretty much describes a good chunk of Africa now. (we are feeding and supporting them).
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by mike View Post:
If overpopulation was a real issue, it would be too expensive to eat and support yourself. And it wouldn't happen overnight; it would happen slowly over decades, and populations would decline naturally for other reasons than they do today.
... mike, it IS too expensive to eat and support themselves, for 2/3 of the population of this planet, as it is for over 50% of Americans, who live on food stamps


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