Greece: Are we on like donkey-kong?

rblong2us

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Hard to treat any of the news / discussions seriously.

Greece already was totally controlled by the money lenders, who now have to pick up the tab for their stupidity. Just a matter of window dressing for the moment.

Another big vote = another non decision .......

Just what are the IMF playing at though ?
 

pmbug

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Pure speculation, but the IMF is essentially a USA captured entity. Assuming Rickards, et. al. are correct with the push to diminish the petrodollar in favor of a SDR NWO currency basket reserve currency (when China is ready), undermining the Euro might extend the life of the status quo (with respect to the king dollar).

I really can't think of any other reason why the IMF would be pushing like they are. The Euro isn't doing anything to Greece that the IMF hasn't done to numerous other countries for decades (Argentina holla!).
 

11C1P

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Every time something about Greece comes on, I hear the Journey song "Wheel in the sky" start playing in my head, only the words are changed to "Turd in the bowl keeps on swirling, don't know if it'll flush tomorrow."
 

ancona

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The slaves are gathering in Syntagma Square, so I wonder how long before the petrol bombs start flying and riot dog shows up? They should just get this show started already and burn parliament to the ground and show the bastards they mean business.
 

pmbug

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Was watching BBC America just now (while eating lunch) and molotovs and tear gas are flying around right now.
 

pmbug

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So, Greek Parliament voted yes on the EU deal. Young people in Greece feel betrayed by the older generation. It's a recipe ripe for revolution (though I don't think they are quite angry or organized enough for that yet).

The ECB has agreed to restore ELA to keep the Greek banks open. It should stave off complete economic and societal collapse for a few weeks:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-16/ecb-rasies-greek-ela-draghi-comments

Meanwhile, Schaeuble in Germany finally acknowledges that a 3rd bailout is meaningless without a deep haircut and he'd rather see a Grexit than give a haircut:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-16/greece-may-not-get-bailout-grexit-better-way-schaeuble-says

I don't think the fat lady has sung yet.
 

pmbug

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If we accept that Germany, et. al. are concerned with how what happens with Greece affects future dealings with the rest of the PIIS, I could see that they wish to impose maximum pain as a disincentive for anyone else to challenge their authority.

Maximum pain = catastrophic Grexit / Lucy pulling the football from Charlie Brown
 

11C1P

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I've seen much worse rioting in cities that win sports championships here in our country. I never understood why they riot when they win, but then again it's usually a bunch of drunk college age kids, so that might be the only explanation necessary.
 

rblong2us

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So, Greek Parliament voted yes on the EU deal. Young people in Greece feel betrayed by the older generation. It's a recipe ripe for revolution (though I don't think they are quite angry or organized enough for that yet).
Same thing happened in Scotland when they had the chance to become an independent country.

The media were put into overdrive to scare the pensioners to remain tied to the UK. The younger people wanted to be free of Westminster control.
Banking and currency were the big topics rolled out in the hope unthinking Scottish people would buy into the fear.

The way they cut off funding for the greek banks was reprehensible as well as illegal. A deliberate attempt to scare Greek people into submission.
And it worked.
 

pmbug

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So Germany has approved a 3rd bailout sans debt relief. It's now on the IMF to approve or nix the deal. If their latest statements carry any weight, they will nix the deal. We'll see.
 

ancona

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Greece needs to suck it up and walk while they still can. If they become the slaves the EU wants them to be, they will never be the same again. Taxes will eat them alive. Tourism will die and prices will become so ridiculous that no one will want to go there.

I cannot for the life of me understand why they can't see what is happening to them.
 

11C1P

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A few days ago I saw a report that was interesting. It was several days into the banks being closed and the limits on the ATM withdrawals. Many stores were saying the sales of high end merchandise had exploded as people were coming in and using plastic to buy expensive items as a way to have wealth on hand. No mention of PM's at least in the sense of coins/bullion, but lots of fancy purses, coats, etc. I also thought it rather ironic that a country that is drowning in debt and cut of cash to it's citizens has caused them to charge oodles of money to a credit card to obtain more wealth. It seems they really don't know how credit really works, as they seem to never have to pay it back, and people grovel to help them as they act offended if they aren't given enough handouts. Makes wonder if ANY of them have actual wealth stored for a situation like this. Not that being in that type of situation would be fun even with a good stash of PM's I would hate to thing about doing it without them.
 

pmbug

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So the Greek drama isn't over yet. Internally, Tsiparas is facing a rebellion in his party and it remains to be seen if they pass a third round of reforms in anticipation of qualifying for another bailout.

In the meantime, the IMF may be throwing a wrench in the Troika side of the deal:
Once again the IMF is back in the news in regards to Greece.

The IMF staff told the board of directors Greece Disqualified from New IMF Program.

Yet, Germany insists IMF be a part of the program. The reason for the latter is Germany will have to pony up lots more money if the IMF is not involved. The staff presented this message to the board this week, along with the message eurozone bailout lenders first need to agree on "debt relief".

From the above link (Financial Times) ...
The International Monetary Fund’s board has been told Athens’ high debt levels and poor record of implementing reforms disqualify Greece from a third IMF bailout of the country, raising new questions over whether the fund will join the EU’s latest financial rescue.
...
...
More: http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/07/imf-reiterates-greece-disqualified-for.html
 

pmbug

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Terms of the 3rd bailout have been approved:
... Greece and its creditors have agreed to the terms of the country’s third bailout program. Here are the details, via Bloomberg:
  • Greece’s deal with creditors provides funding of ~EU85b over next 3 years ensuring ability to meet payment of debt obligations, Athens-based Press Ministry says in e-mailed statement.
  • Deal sees 2015 primary deficit of 0.25% of GDP, primary surpluses of 0.5% in 2016, 1.75% in 2017, 3.5% in 2018
  • Govt will take initiatives in coming months to settle issue of bad loans that stand at ~EU95b, consultation group on issue to be set up with creditors, govt won’t allow sale of bad loans
  • Greek power grid operator Admie to remain public asset, there will be no break up of Public Power Corp, natural gas market to be liberalized

Over the weekend, FAZ reported that creditors had drafted an MOU which would need to be discussed with the Greek finance ministry before it could be passed to EU member countries and the Greek parliament for final approval. Generally speaking, today was the deadline to produce a mutually "acceptable" draft agreement, as Athens must make a €3.2 billion bond payment to the ECB next week in order to ensure that the Greek banking sector retains access to ELA. Now, it looks like Europe will get to pay itself back after all, assuming there are no unexpected political problems later on in the week. ...
More: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...greece-agrees-bailout-amid-rampant-skepticism

I'm not seeing mention of whether or not the IMF capitulated on the debt restructuring issue or not.
 

ancona

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IMF is still out. Germany is still not interested in a restructuring because they are smart enough to do the cipher and can see this debt can never be paid back. The new number is north of 87 billion additional dollars on top of the old debt pile, and Greece says they have actual needs of 105 billion Euros, and that number keeps growing. With capital controls still in place, Greece has fallen off the proverbial cliff and all commerce has essentially stopped. They are in the death spiral. They should have told the troika to go kick rocks when Riot Dog was an internet star.
 

pmbug

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The Greek-Euro fiasco is a clown show...
... Germany which, according to Bild (citing EU sources) has now determined that the new bailout plan is "insufficient." ...

...

But as the German finance ministry made clear on Tuesday, this can’t "just be about Aug. 20 and an installment payment, but really about how, together with the Greeks, we can have a lasting solution for Greece."

Of course any “lasting solution” will have to include debt writedowns and the IMF has wavered on whether the Fund will be willing to participate in the absence of debt relief. ...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...ufficient-2y-bund-yields-collapse-record-lows
 

pmbug

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... the Greek parliament ... gave its approval for the third Greek bailout ...

...

In terms of numbers, the rebel faction within Syriza is now up to 42, with 43 being seen as the threshold beyond which Tsipras has no choice but to call elections. In other words the Tsipras government now hangs in the fate of just one person.

According to other sources, Tsipras may no longer even have the required minimum support to pass a confidence vote, suggesting snap elections are imminent:
...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...ailout-tsipras-support-drops-absolute-minimum

As I understand it, the bailout still needs to be approved by the IMF.
 

11C1P

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Maybe it's just me but they seem to be having national elections every couple of weeks. Seems like that in and of itself would be fairly spendy. If these elections are being conducted on the cheap it would seem that it would be fairly easy to print fake ballots and get by cheap security to stuff ballots, if they already don't have enough people on the inside to accomplish it. I would say this is playing out like a Greek tragedy, but It's tough to feel sorry for the grasshoppers when all the ants were trying to warn them.
 
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