Greece: Are we on like donkey-kong?

11C1P

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So now Tsipras is now doing his best J. Bruce Ismay impression. Meanwhile the band still plays on.
 

ancona

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Tsipras is to step down and the left side of his party will form their own coalition, try and get a majority, then we'll have the farce of "elections" again. We'll see what happens, but I don't expect anything other than status quo.
 

11C1P

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It will be interesting to see how all the people fleeing from syria/irag will effect greece and the EU in general. Finally people on the news are saying what I've been saying for weeks now that they noticed nearly 80% of those fleeing are men of fighting age and why aren't they fighting. Today they showed that they were capable of fighting when they were clashing with border guards. They of course know those countries won't decapitate them or light them on fire if they are caught/arrested so that apparently makes them much braver. At least they left all the weapons and equipment we sent them behind for isis to use.
 

Jay

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It will be interesting to see how all the people fleeing from syria/irag will effect greece and the EU in general. Finally people on the news are saying what I've been saying for weeks now that they noticed nearly 80% of those fleeing are men of fighting age and why aren't they fighting. Today they showed that they were capable of fighting when they were clashing with border guards. They of course know those countries won't decapitate them or light them on fire if they are caught/arrested so that apparently makes them much braver. At least they left all the weapons and equipment we sent them behind for isis to use.
It will be interesting to see how many of them are ISIS.
 

ancona

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I don't know why Europe isn't mobilizing to stop this insanity. They have to know that these bastards are Isis in massive numbers. They are all but saying so and the media is being complicit in hiding it. I've seen pictures of "migrants" flipping the finger at cameras and shouting allahu Akbar as they storm the border. Those who denounce the flood of islamists are denounced as racists. I say they are diluting Europe to the point that soon there will no longer be a Europe, just a big soup bowl of black haired muslim scum, rapist assholes.

Anyway, am I the only one who notices that they are largely ignoring Greece? Yup, Greece doesn't seem to have too much of a muslim immigrant/migrant/invader problem these days.
 

pmbug

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Why would anyone want to go to Greece right now? The economy there can't even support the local population.
 

ancona

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The point is it is a gateway country. Once there, they can get papers. Once they have papers, they are free to travel anywhere they wish. Most of them want to go to Germany, France or England. England has by far the best and most generous welfare benefits. If one plans it out right, they can live quite well off the government tit.
 

11C1P

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Why isn't saudi arabia taking any? Why aren't they just staying in turkey to begin with for that matter, funny how none of these countries want to just let them take over their country and aren't being called racists like those in the U.S. who want our borders secure. Funny when the shoe is on the other foot isn't it, especially if it's one of those shoe bombs.
 

ancona

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I've seen articles and pictures showing a huge town of temporary air conditioned tents capable of housing a million "migrants" that is standing completely empty. Why? because these animals know that Saudi Arabia has no intentions of allowing them to act like the animals they will act like when they get in to Europe. They will be held to a set of standards that they do not want to be held to.

If Obongo allows this trash to come here it will only cement my picture of him as a traitor.
 

pmbug

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... a report in the Greek Enikonomia, according to which Greek taxpayers would be forced to declare all cash "under the mattress" (including inside) or boxes that contain more than 15,000 euros as well as jewelry and precious stones (including gold) worth over 30,000 euros, starting in 2016 ...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...sh-under-mattress-jewelry-and-precious-stones

What starts in Greece affects the world. [/parody of University of Texas marketing slogan]

Private property laws/ideals are intregally linked to liberty. This is just another facet of the same civil asset forfeiture coin
 

pmbug

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I posted a little bit about Greece and the Troika in the Euro reality check thread in late January and early February. Back then it was being reported that June looks to be the point at where Greece is going to need more funding assistance (ie. mo money).

The IMF has been in a contentuous position with Germany over the need to provide Greece some debt relief. Germany apparently isn't budging. Looks like the IMF is starting to ramp up the heat. Someone gave wikileaks a recording of an internal IMF meeting from March 19 discussing the issue.
...
THOMSEN: Instead of waiting for them... I am not going accept a package of small measures. I am not.

VELKOULESKOU: Yeah, no, understood. We have told them, it is very clear what we have and what we have in this note that we agreed with the Europeans--which they are now backtracking--but it is very simple it is the pension reform, income tax credit, VAT and the wage bill and there are some excises, one or two... that's it. But on each of them we have significant open issues which are all political, as far as Greeks are concerned. And the other question is about the DSA [Debt Sustainability Analysis] and whether we will put it out at some point.

THOMSEN: Well, I don't know. But this is... I think about it differently. What is going to bring it all to a decision point? In the past there has been only one time when the decision has been made and then that was when they were about to run out of money seriously and to default. Right?

VELKOULESKOU: Right!

THOMSEN: And possibly this is what is going to happen again. In that case, it drags on until July, and clearly the Europeans are not going to have any discussions for a month before the Brexits and so, at some stage they will want to take a break and then they want to start again after the European referendum.

VELKOULESKOU: That's right.

THOMSEN: That is one possibility. Another possibility is one that I thought would have happened already and I am surprised that it has not happened, is that, because of the refugee situation, they take a decision... that they want to come to a conclusion. Ok? And the Germans raise the issue of the management... and basically we at that time say "Look, you Mrs. Merkel you face a question, you have to think about what is more costly: to go ahead without the IMF, would the Bundestag say 'The IMF is not on board'? or to pick the debt relief that we think that Greece needs in order to keep us on board?" Right? That is really the issue.

VELKOULESKOU: Correct!

VELKOULESKOU: When is that going to happen? I don't know, I am surprised that it has not happened yet. I would, for the sake of the Greeks and everyone else, I would like it to happen sooner rather than later.

VELKOULESKOU: I am hoping it's going to happen with these debt discussions that are starting in mid April.

THOMSEN: But that is not an event. That is not going to cause them to... That discussion can go on for a long time. And they are just leading them down the road... why are they leading them down the road? Because they are not close to the event, whatever it is.

VELKOULESKOU: I agree that we need an event, but I don't know what that will be. But I think Dijsselbloem is trying not to generate an event, but to jump start this discussion somehow on debt, that essentially is about us being on board or not at the end of the day.

THOMSEN: Yeah, but you know, that discussion of the measures and the discussion of the debt can go on forever, until some high up.. until they hit the July payment or until the leaders decide that we need to come to an agreement. But there is nothing in there that otherwise is going to force a compromise. Right? It is going to go on forever.

VELKOULESKOU: It will, yes, until July, if nothing happens beforehand. I agree.
...
https://wikileaks.org/imf-internal-20160319/transcript/IMF Anticipates Greek Disaster.pdf

Now reported in Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...essuring-germany-on-greek-debt-wikileaks-says

Looks like July is the deadline to watch.
 

rblong2us

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As long as Greece remains in the poo but theres no actual default, nothing will change.
Its more about telegraphing to other failed euro countries that its better to toe the line.

Greece simply cannot be allowed to 'fail' or distance itself from the euro.
 

pmbug

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... A default looms in July unless the creditors give more money to Greece so that Greece can pay back the creditors. ...

The creditors demand still more austerity but Tsipras said “no”. Instead, Tsipras seeks an emergency meeting, but European Commission president Donald Tusk said “no” to that proposal.

Supposedly this standoff represents “renewed uncertainty”.
...
The only thing “uncertain” is the same that that’s been uncertain since the beginning of the crisis: the timing of the credit event.
...
https://mishtalk.com/2016/04/27/mor...ms-in-july-eu-rejects-greek-emergency-summit/
 

pmbug

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pmbug

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...
Hiking taxes in a depression is one of the stupidest things one can do, but Greece is set for another vote to do just that.

Prime minister Alexis Tsipras is once again prepared to kiss German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s behind, and his party will likely go along for the ride.

The wildcard IMF has yet to chime in on the economic stupidity of this hike.
...
... German officials are seeking to delay any debt restructuring until the end of the current Greek bailout program in 2018, so that Germany’s parliament, the Bundestag, would pass such measures only after Germany’s 2017 elections.
...
...
The IMF wants debt relief now, but Germany wants the IMF to hold off until Merkel wins reelection.

Meanwhile, the Greek depression resumes.

These tax hikes are insane. The key question remains: Is the IMF bluffing about debt relief or not?
https://mishtalk.com/2016/05/22/despite-depression-greece-forced-to-hike-vat-add-new-taxes/
 

rblong2us

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its all just cover while real assets get transferred to those who control.

Once the jewels are lost to the Greek people they will be allowed to sort out whats left.

actually whats needed is a rant from Ancona (-:

I just can't get angry enough )-:
 
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pmbug

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Oh hai! Member Greece?

...
Greece and its creditors are locked in negotiations on how the nation can close its fiscal gap, in line with the requirements of the 86 billion-euro ($92 billion) aid program agreed with the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the IMF. Failure to strike a deal would hold up the release of the next portion of bailout funding.

The IMF board is set to discuss Greece’s ability to service its debt on Feb. 6. The fund has resisted pressure from countries including Germany and the Netherlands to contribute to the bailout program, seeing it as doomed unless Greece takes further steps to rein in spending or euro-area governments ease the terms of the loans.
...
As in the past, the IMF is proposing that Europe extend grace periods and maturity dates on the loans. The document also calls for further deferral of interest payments and to lock in interest rates.
...
Greek debt is “highly unsustainable” and “even with the full implementation of policies agreed under the European Stability Mechanism program, public debt and financing needs will become explosive in the long run,” the document says. A “substantial restructuring” of European loans to Greece is required to restore debt sustainability, it says.

The IMF agrees with Greece’s euro-area creditors on one point. Both want Greece to introduce a law triggering austerity measures if the country fails to maintain a budget surplus before interest payments of 3.5 percent of GDP. Greek Finance Minister Euclid Tsakalotos last week rejected that demand as “unacceptable.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...group-loan-measures-not-enough-for-greek-debt

fester
verb fes·ter
festered; festeringplay \ˈfe-st(ə-)riŋ\

intransitive verb

3
b : to undergo or exist in a state of progressive deterioration
 

pmbug

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rblong2us

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Just another act in an ongoing drama I reckon.
All part of the need to distract us.

As Ive sometimes said, if its predictable, its manageable.

I guess I could be getting too cynical ..........
 

pmbug

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I fully expect the IMF to cave again and the bailout game to continue for another round. No one has the balls to stop the freight train so they are just going to keep riding it until it crashes (and then claim no one could have seen that coming).
 
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