Precious Metals Forum

Go Back   Precious Metals Forum > Bunker Talk > BSTS

Like Tree31Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-14-2012, 09:25 AM   #1
Fly on the wall
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 35
Liked: 20 times
advice please - .40 or 9mm for CHL

If this isn't the right place to post this I'm sorry. I'm attending class/ range time next weekend to get a concealed pistol license. Don't know whether to go 9mm or .40 cal. Looks like .40 cal ammo is a lot more expensive. Any thoughts are appreciated!
Bonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 09:58 AM   #2
Golden Cockroach
 
PMBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault
Posts: 7,017
Liked: 2444 times
.40 is a newer caliber and more powerful than 9mm. It is growing in popularity, but still not as ubiquitous as 9mm, hence the price disparity in favor of 9mm right now. The last pistol I acquired was a 9mm precisely because I wanted to be able to practice at the range with something more powerful that a .22 on a budget.

YMMV.
__________________
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu

Important stuff: PMBug 101 * Forum Guidelines * Support PMBug
PMBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 10:01 AM   #3
Yellow Jacket
 
DCFusor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Floyd, Virginia
Posts: 1,682
Liked: 1233 times
Tee-hee, you should get both of course...

9mm might be easier to conceal, depending on the design and capacity. Usually you get more capacity for the same size, but not always. But easy to conceal guns have short barrels and sight radii - and are the hardest to shoot well. If they're supler light, they sting your hand in recoil. It's one of those trade-off things.

The pros use .40 almost 100%, few exceptions. Fewer bullets but they count more, and in my own experience, tend to be a lot more accurate - could be luck of the draw, but very few 9mms brought to my range have been well shot by anyone at all. One exception is a S&W M&P there.

Reality is that once you get a gun and start having fun building your skills, it's too late to think "this one or that one" - you'll wind up with a few as time goes on.

By the time ammo costs start to bug you...(and cleaning materials, oil etc) you'll be thinking of reloading with a nice Dillon which makes it fast, easy, and cheap - that is, after the rather high initial expense of getting the tools and reloading manuals.

I took that one step further and when I'm having a bored afternoon, might cast a few hundred or a thousand bullets from lead mostly recycled from my range. Handgun brass lasts a really long time - basically till you wear out the primer pocket with pushing primers in and out, so it gets to be pretty cheap at the margin if you shoot a lot, which anyone not yet a master should do. No point having a gun if you can't really shoot it well - even under stress. No, make that especially under stress.
Takes most people a few thousand rounds minimum to get there...

Depending on the situation - my concealed carry gun is most often a taurus ultralight revolver in .38 with crimson trace grips. My other carry gun (usually car carry) is a CZ-97 in .45. I prefer guns that either have a real safety (like the CZ) or really really don't need one (like the Taurus - 13 lb trigger). Glocks have shot a few people while fishing them out of concealment, like the old 1911's when carried cocked and locked. No need for that danger IMO.

The Ti Taurus is NOT FUN to shoot. But it works, very reliable, no pocket fluff issues, and it's the most concealable gun around due to it's light weight not making a big print from making things sag. But it's the one I have with me, if you get my drift. Getting a super duper gun you won't carry is a complete waste if you need it and don't have it at hand.
Bonzo likes this.
DCFusor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 10:12 AM   #4
Super Moderator
 
benjamen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Migratory
Posts: 1,620
Liked: 685 times
Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post:
If this isn't the right place to post this I'm sorry. I'm attending class/ range time next weekend to get a concealed pistol license. Don't know whether to go 9mm or .40 cal. Looks like .40 cal ammo is a lot more expensive. Any thoughts are appreciated!
It really depends on what is important to you. Ask youself a few questions:

1) Is it for the house, the car, or carry on your person?
2) If pistol, revolver or automatic?
3) How big of a person are you? This affects what size caliber you can handle the recoil from as well as the size of the firearm you can realistically conceal on your person.
4) Cost you can afford / Are you willing to reload

If you answer these questions, we can provide a clearer answer.
__________________
I drive men mad
For love of me,
Easily beaten,
Never free.

PMBug 101 *** Forum Rules
benjamen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 10:34 AM   #5
Fly on the wall
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 35
Liked: 20 times
Benjamen, mainly for house and car
Auto
I'm 5'7" 145lbs
I'll prolly reload eventually.
Bonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 10:43 AM   #6
Yellow Jacket
 
DCFusor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Floyd, Virginia
Posts: 1,682
Liked: 1233 times
One reason .40 is currently more expensive is that it's good stuff in the main. There is no cheap-crap under-spec should-never-have-been-accepted mil surplus, as there is for 9mm out there. (note, 9mm is roughly equal to .38 in horsepower, eg, not much - not in the same class as .40, .45 or even .357 mag or sig)

That said, there's a range of quality in both, and a range in prices. Don't compare top line self defense or pro law enforcement .40 with steel cased, sub standard powder and bullets crap 9mm, as you're not comparing like to like.

For house and car - size and weight aren't a big deal. I'm using a .45 in that role here, and love that - it shoots very nicely, very comfortable (no sting), and everyone I hand it to gets nice scores on target. Just a good 'ol reliable CZ, with a 1911 backup just in case. Plenty of reasonable ammo around for that, and there's no argument it's the fight stopper in pistols - if you can shoot well. But I don't try to carry that one concealed, it makes me walk like quasimoto, as I'm a little guy. I might pull it off with a shoulder holster and a couple mags on the other side to balance it (if I was wearing a suit or a winter coat), but then the straps chafe me - those things are heavy.
Bonzo likes this.
DCFusor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 10:44 AM   #7
Super Moderator
 
benjamen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Migratory
Posts: 1,620
Liked: 685 times
Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post:
Benjamen, mainly for house and car
Auto
I'm 5'7" 145lbs
I'll prolly reload eventually.
Facts about recoil:
a) The larger the caliber the stronger the recoil
b) Within the same caliber, the larger the firearm, the weaker the recoil

If you are not trying to conceal the weapon, a full size pistol would work fine for you and lessen the recoil. Try firing multiple weapons of various caliber and sizes, BEFORE you buy, to see what is your personal sensitivity to recoil. It does you no good to buy a weapon you will not practice with because it hurts to fire it! Also, if your married, you may want to take into consideration what you spouse can effectively use in your absence.

Since you want semi-automatic, your common caliber choices are (from weaker to stronger) 22, 9mm, 40, and 45. As you step up in caliber, your ammo costs more, firearm may cost more, has more stopping power, usually have less rounds in a magazine, and has more recoil.

Both 22 and 9mm are so common and relatively inexpensive that reloading does not save you much money, but reloading is worth it as you move into the larger two.

A common rule of thumb, for something you are not carrying on your person every day, is you buy the largest caliber you can effectively use and afford. If you are carrying on your person, then you have to take into account ease of carrying and concealing it in your every day attire.
Bonzo likes this.
__________________
I drive men mad
For love of me,
Easily beaten,
Never free.

PMBug 101 *** Forum Rules

Last edited by benjamen; 05-14-2012 at 10:48 AM.
benjamen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 10:48 AM   #8
Yellow Jacket
 
ancona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Waaay south
Posts: 3,370
Liked: 2046 times
I have several 9mm handguns, but the only two that shoot a reasonable distance and still hit on target are the Glock 17 and my Sig. I have two Makarovs, a CZ and an FEG, which are easily concealable, but I wouldn't count on them for anything farther away than around 10 - 15 feet. The Glock shoots well out to 30 feet and the sig is about the same, anly it is a more compact handgun and therefore more "snappy".

I have not shot a .40 yet, but I have shot a .45 and for my money, if I am strictly out for firepower over concealment, I would use the .45.
__________________
All things being equal, the simplest answer is quite often the correct answer - Occam
ancona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 03:07 PM   #9
Predaceous stink bug
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 130
Liked: 95 times
I see a lot of different facts and opinions on here, and I have to say I don't disagree with any of them. Just ask yourself what is the purpose of this firearm? You said you wanted it for carry and for your car/house, and you are a smaller statured guy. So if this is your every day carry gun, chances are you may not spend a lot of time at the range, which is fine. For an everyday concealed carry weapon, I would think you want something with a small frame - chances are, it will never be fired in a shootout, and since you may not fire it at the range a lot, it doesn't have to be super comfortable. In this instance, the weapon is only a tool that serves a specific purpose, nothing more.

Something else to consider: YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT A BULLET WILL DO. Two cases in point. 1. My friends dad swallowed a .44 mag in a suicide attempt and is still alive to this day. 2. I've watched video of a state trooper take a round of .22 and bleed out on the street. So you'll hear lots of folks talk about knockdown power and ballistics and percentages and all kinds of crap. Just keep in mind that knockdown power is only a measurement and creates a "likely response". Nothing is guarunteed.

So specifically, for your situation, I'd focus on the size of the weapon itself. What would you be comfortable carrying around inside your waistband every day and what would easily stay concealed. Don't get to wrapped up in which caliber it is, as you can find nearly identical guns in different calibers, such as the glock 26(9mm) and glock 27 (.40) and all sizes in between.

I acknowledge the arguement for a larger caliber but even a butter knife is an effective weapon when wielded properly, so there are no absolutes when it comes to the size of the bullet. So gather all the information you can, like you are doing now and decide what you believe in and what helps you sleep at night.
silverlady, ancona and Bonzo like this.
dali lambone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #10
Predaceous stink bug
 
white&yellow999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 239
Liked: 98 times
I like the .40 cal personally (the holes are bigger on the target) and you can find many that would be easily concealable. IMO it's all what is comfortable for you, go with a friend and test out some of there different calibers or go to a range where you can rent, and test the weapons you are considering buying.
white&yellow999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2012, 06:54 PM   #11
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 494
Liked: 280 times
A lot of good advice already posted, and as you can see from the variety of answers, it will mostly come down to personal preference.

The gun I would grab at home and shoot in competition is a 9mm. I went with 9mm due to low recoil (it was my first handgun), higher capacity, cheaper ammo. I rented a .40 once and wouldn't hesitate to use one; haven't shot a .45 yet. Like DC, mine is a CZ.

I also have a .22 conversion for this gun that is great for practicing fundamentals at a low cost. The recoil of more powerful rounds can lead to the developement of bad shooting habbits, so shooting a .22 is a great way to build your skills. And it is fun.

For carrying I'm usually with a Ruger LCR (snub nosed .38), similar to DC's Taurus. It is pretty snappy, but I'm small too and live where it is too hot to wear a coat most of the time (a jacket in 100F heat would draw some attention). If I lived in a colder place I would probably carry a larger gun, with greater capacity and possibly a more powerful round.

As someone said, go rent some guns and see what you like since if you don't like the gun you will not shoot it often. If you do not shoot often you will not be a good shot. If you are not a good shot not only will that gun be more likely to not save you, but it may become a huge liability (more likely to hit an innocent bystander). Keep in mind that not all guns of the same caliber are equal. That .38 snub nose revolver will let your hand know that a small explosion just occured whereas a big .357 magnum shooting .38 will be quite tame.

I'd say start thinking about 3 handguns. The small one to carry when concealment is difficult. The big one (still talking frame size here) that sits on the night table and gets a lot of range time. And the .22, be it a 3rd gun or a conversion kit for one of the others. That would pretty much cover you, and is a perfect excuse to buy 3 guns.


Whatever gun you do get, I highly recommend shooting in Internation Defensive Pistol Association matches (http://www.idpa.com/). Most of the matches are locally organized just-for-fun events, but there are more serious state/regional matches. Instead of standing in front of a piece of paper, you get to draw from your concealed holster and shoot on the move at moving targets. It is oviously very practical training for defending yourself and it is a lot of fun! Check with your local ranges to see when/where matches are held.
DCFusor and Bonzo like this.
dontdeBasemebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 05:13 AM   #12
Fly on the wall
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 35
Liked: 20 times
Great advece guys! Appreciate it! I like the idea of more than one sidearm. I already have a Ruger Mark II .22 So maybe get both a 9mm and .40 I do plan on a lot of range time and the shop I deal with offers advanced combat/defensive courses which I plan to take.
PMBug likes this.
Bonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 09:01 AM   #13
Yellow Jacket
 
DCFusor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Floyd, Virginia
Posts: 1,682
Liked: 1233 times
What I find in the larger calibers, at least in the guns I own, is that the recoil is more of a shove than a slap. Yes, there's more momentum involved (MV) but the "rise time" of this is slower, so they are actually more comfortable to shoot, in the main. This is partly because they (and their ammo) tend to weigh more, so the V part of the conserved MV is lower on the hand end of things, even though with the same grip the gun will rise more in recoil.

While shooting a high-recoil gun can cause one to learn a flinch (bad - but easy to detect and correct by practice) - shooting a low recoil gun pretending it's practice for any but the very most basic shooting skills is just plain wrong - controlling that recoil, not limp-wristing, and getting back on target for a follow-up are some of the very most important skills you'll never learn shooting a .22 conversion, period.

My 1911 has a Kimber .22 conversion which I now use only rarely. It's a totally different gun with that on there. Sure, it's great fun, but - once you get used to shooting that, you can't put a .45 into a pie plate at 7 paces till you get used to the .45 again. Remember, recoil begins before the bullet has left, and it's where the gun is pointing when the bullet leaves that matters. Not where it was when you thought about the trigger press, or immediately after the press, but where it is *in recoil* when the bullet actually leaves, a few milliseconds after the trigger pull. Most people shoot very high, completely off target, when transitioning between the two.

Grip is all-important in handguns, particularly consistency of that - and you are working against yourself with not training what you really plan to shoot. Shooting a .22 conversion will ruin your muscle memory for the right grip for shooting the real thing, I and many others have experienced this for real.

Edit:
It's not universal that bigger calibers slap you less - there's a .45 derringer out there you couldn't pay me to shoot, I promise that would hurt.
Bonzo likes this.
DCFusor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 09:58 AM   #14
Fly on the wall
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 35
Liked: 20 times
Thoughts on .357 Magnum? I like saying Magnum.
Bonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 10:04 AM   #15
Super Moderator
 
benjamen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Migratory
Posts: 1,620
Liked: 685 times
Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post:
Thoughts on .357 Magnum? I like saying Magnum.
I actually prefer to start people new to pistols out on revolvers. If you pull the trigger on an automatic and it does not go bang, you have to know how to clear the chamber. This flusters the new shooters, while with the revolver, you just pull the trigger again to fire the next round in the cylinder.

As far the the .357 revolvers, I like the ones that can also fire the 38 specials for cheaper practice.
__________________
I drive men mad
For love of me,
Easily beaten,
Never free.

PMBug 101 *** Forum Rules
benjamen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #16
Golden Cockroach
 
PMBug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In Scrooge McDuck's vault
Posts: 7,017
Liked: 2444 times
My wife and I received a S&W .357 revolver as a gift from my FIL. I shoot .38spcl rounds at the range with it and it's awesome. At the steel plate rack, I consistently go six for six even when choosing plates in random order. Even though it's a double action, I shoot it single action and cocking the hammer manually doesn't slow me down. The trigger pull is just too much for me to shoot double action accurately. Fun gun and I would have no qualms with using it if my life depended upon it.
Bonzo likes this.
__________________
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. - Lao Tzu

Important stuff: PMBug 101 * Forum Guidelines * Support PMBug
PMBug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 06:09 PM   #17
Yellow Jacket
 
ancona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Waaay south
Posts: 3,370
Liked: 2046 times
Sooo...............what do you think you want to do brother?
__________________
All things being equal, the simplest answer is quite often the correct answer - Occam
ancona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 07:02 PM   #18
Predaceous stink bug
 
HCA1961's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 143
Liked: 68 times
Get a Glock 19.
It is as safe and easy to use as a double-action revolver while providing 16 rounds of 9mm ammo.
It's affordable, recoil is manageable, ammo is fairly inexpensive, and it will go bang every time you pull the trigger.
Get a Glock 19.
ancona likes this.
HCA1961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 07:48 PM   #19
Yellow Jacket
 
ancona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Waaay south
Posts: 3,370
Liked: 2046 times
I like semi-auto handguns because there is typically no worry about trigger pull. With a double action, single-double or single action, you can have tremendous trigger pull requirements.
__________________
All things being equal, the simplest answer is quite often the correct answer - Occam
ancona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 06:13 AM   #20
Fly on the wall
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 35
Liked: 20 times
Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
Sooo...............what do you think you want to do brother?
What I need to figure out first is the 9mm .40 question. Only way to do that is to fire a lot of each at the range and see what works best for me. Doing a lot of research and talking to people bout which gun to buy. A couple law enforcement officers and military peeps I know are steering me to the FNS or FNX. They absolutely love them. They use Glocks and Berettas for work and love them also. One officer even has Glock tattoed on his arm but after shooting the FNs says they're the better sidearm. Plus they're less expensive. I can't find anything anywhere but praise for the FNs. I'll prolly also get a .357 sometime. I'll keep you posted on my course this wekend and what I end up with. Thanks again for all your input and advice!
Bonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice someone new to precious metals wanting to make a big purchase oppie2005 PM Bug 26 08-29-2013 07:17 PM
Laughably bad finanical advice benjamen Fiat Ponzi 30 05-07-2013 08:20 PM
Need some advice from paper traders Shelby-villian Gold Bug 14 03-30-2012 08:44 AM
quick shotgun advice dontdeBasemebro BSTS 4 12-18-2011 12:26 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® from Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Content of PMBug.com copyright © 2011 - 2019 Measuring Up. All Rights Reserved.