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Old 05-16-2012, 09:18 AM   #21
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In revolvers, .357 mags will all shoot .38 spcl if you want to. The only difference is the .357 brass is a little longer so it won't go the other way. However, almost all .357 loads perform poorly in less than a 4.5" barrel, since they use more and slower burning power. In a snubby, I've clocked them at under 400 fps, while a midrange wadcutter .38 spcl in the same gun got 750 fps, and a ton less blinding muzzle flash.

But you can certainly shoot either in any .357 mag, and I do. Slightly less accurate since the bullet jump to the rifling is a little longer, no big deal unless you become a very good shooter. Most people can't tell without using a Ransom rest.

But this leaves a ring of crud in the chamber ahead of the .38 shell end, about .1" before the chamber end, that has to be cleaned well before a .357 shell can be used again - they either won't go in or won't come out (easy) after switching back from .38 without a cleaning. Which you should do anyway...clean guns shoot better and are more reliable.

I have an FN FiveSeven and it's a ton of fun. Body armor piercing little Ti-core high velocity bullets (2500 fps and up), and you get 20 in a clip. But it wouldn't be my main gun. Not so accurate, very big gas back blast (into your face), and super expensive ammo. I made my own reloading dies as at first no one offered them, but due to the plastic coating on the brass, and the thing unlocking early (it's a blowback design), you can't get many uses out of it at all. These were designed as a possible replacement for the Army's Berretta 9mms, but lost the competition.

Glock to Glock, I'd bet you like the .40 better when shooting (I do). I dispute the supposed reliability of the Glocks, having seen them jam plenty at the ranges. Any auto - you have to keep it clean and lubed right, pocket fluff can make them malfunction easily compared to revolvers. I teach for the concealed permit - and we always use revolvers for the reason mentioned above. Most people expect a gun to sit around for a long time between uses, then be perfect when the need is there, and want the simpler interface, so that's best for them.

The Glock idea of a safety scares me, it's all too easy to defeat accidentally; ask Plaxico Burris, and quite a few other lesser known people with holy legs.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:43 AM   #22
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Just saw this on Drudge. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6674405.story

Isn't Checago a gun free city? I mean not for criminals, just law abiding citizens.
Pisses me off!
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:59 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post:
Just saw this on Drudge. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6674405.story

Isn't Checago a gun free city? I mean not for criminals, just law abiding citizens.
Pisses me off!
Government stupidity knows no bounds...

Illegal to shoot a bear on your property:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16...est=latestnews

Find a pistol laying in bushes while a work, turn it in to the police, get fired by the county:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15...ng-it-to-cops/
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post:
...
Isn't Checago a gun free city? I mean not for criminals, just law abiding citizens.
...
Chicago was ground zero for a landmark gun rights case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

The Second Amendment Foundation was instrumental in fighting that good fight. They are a great organization and deserve support. They created a separate blog to discuss ongoing ramifications and fallout from the decision:

http://www.chicagoguncase.com/
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:05 PM   #25
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Whatever gun or caliber you decide upon, I urge you to practice with it. There's an old saying: "Beware the man with one gun." IMHO, too many people shoot too many different guns and don't become fully accomplished with any single weapon. This is especially true for the handgun that you might have to use to protect your family or yourself. Just my two cents worth.......
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:08 PM   #26
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I completely agree with HCA.

I would also add that one is none, and two are one. Three is better but four or more mean you are your own back-up now. Tactically, I like the idea that my primary weapons are only three calibers; 9mm, .22 rimfire and .556/.223.

I should note that while all my uppers are chambered in 5.56 but accept .223. If youer rifle or carbine is chambered in .223, it is unwise to fire 5.56 in the weapon.

We also have a 7.62 X 39 we like because the ammo is quite cheap and the sight line and recoil are close to the .223 so we get lots of practice with long arms for less than the cost of shooting a lighter, less powerful round.
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
I completely agree with HCA.

I would also add that one is none, and two are one. Three is better but four or more mean you are your own back-up now. Tactically, I like the idea that my primary weapons are only three calibers; 9mm, .22 rimfire and .556/.223.

I should note that while all my uppers are chambered in 5.56 but accept .223. If youer rifle or carbine is chambered in .223, it is unwise to fire 5.56 in the weapon.

We also have a 7.62 X 39 we like because the ammo is quite cheap and the sight line and recoil are close to the .223 so we get lots of practice with long arms for less than the cost of shooting a lighter, less powerful round.
I'd just like to add 12 ga 3 inch magnum to that. So versatile!
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:38 PM   #28
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Ancona is right, though so is that saying "beware the man who shoots just one gun" - as someone who shoots many (gunsmith and competition) it's really true unless you get a lot of practice.

Not sure I'd agree that the .223 is wimpy compared to 7.62x39. Those really lose their ambition past 100 yards, and most shoot pie plate groups at that range - we call them minute of milk jug here. .223 is nice out to around 400 if you know your holds, nastier on target too. The 7.52 shines in very close quarters mainly. I'll take my .223s with their <1/4" groups over a 6" group out of an AK or SKS any day. If you don't hit 'em, it doesn't matter what you missed with!

Nato 5.56 chambers are spec'd slightly larger than .223 civvie to work with bent and sloppy and dirty mil ammo - and some of that is pretty bad stuff, which is why it's "cheaper than dirt" But both guns and ammo vary, and all ammo is originally SAAMI spec'd to the smaller .223 standard, including the nato stuff - the mil chamber spec just allows for more tolerance slippage. And damage between manufacture and actual use.

FWIW, the NATO chambered chrome lined .223's are the least accurate available due to the sloppy fit and the lousy plating process (it's hard enough to get right on a flat plate, now inside a bore tube...not so easy.

I will say that in slow and medium speed competition type venues - switching from a .38 target gun to a .45 doesn't give me any trouble at all these days, but both are large heavy guns I get a lot of practice with. EG the revolver is a S&W mod 14 with a 6" barrel, not my puny carry gun, which I have to re-learn every time and force myself to practice with as it's not fun to shoot (glad for that laser on it). So, not that different - the S&W .38 is a much better trigger and easier to recover from recoil, that's it - so in fast shooting, I'd rather have it unless I really needed a ton of bullets right now (I do use speedloader carriers for the revolvers so that's nearly a wash).

I'd have a lot more trouble going from my CZ to a Glock, for example as grip is critical and they are shaped different - my muscle memory would work against me and does.

The only reason I can think of to need a real buncha bullets in one encounter is if I'm outnumbered many to one - and that's simply a situation you have to avoid, because movies notwithstanding, you're going to lose. Shoot and run away, live to shoot another day.

As the marines say - anything worth shooting is worth a double tap, but more is waste. They also say - if you find yourself in a fair fight - shoot your planner. You won't need to if you're the planner and in that fight, someone else will handle that one for you - so do think about that when sweating how much firepower you really need - it might be a waste of weight and size. Even the DHS (and they can't shoot for crap - we teach them for re-qual here sometimes) only ordered about 1.5 bullets per person in the country.

As Col Plaster says, too easy leads to half-assism. Every shot is the first shot of the rest of your life is a better approach, then having a zillion doesn't seem as important - the first one ended the fight - if it's a hit. I don't care what you have - if you have 10 against one, no weapon can force them all to keep their heads down at once - you're toast because the one you missed won't miss you. A minigun wouldn't save you if there was just one guy off to the side or behind while you get distracted with a main force.

Therefore, the other part of that equation is having that association with like minded people you can count on in a pinch. It might seem chicken to run and hide with them until you can venture forth in force - but I'll vote for live chicken over dead duck every time.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:09 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by HCA1961 View Post:
Whatever gun or caliber you decide upon, I urge you to practice with it. There's an old saying: "Beware the man with one gun." IMHO, too many people shoot too many different guns and don't become fully accomplished with any single weapon. This is especially true for the handgun that you might have to use to protect your family or yourself. Just my two cents worth.......
The only gun you need:
http://nemoarms.com/worlds-titanium-...o-arms-100000/

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Old 05-16-2012, 05:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by benjamen View Post:
The only gun you need:
http://nemoarms.com/worlds-titanium-...o-arms-100000/

I wonder how many bits and endmills they wrecked making that...
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:31 PM   #31
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Seems pretty high priced, and Ti (most alloys) aren't really that hard to machine, I do it all the time - bit life isn't so bad. Tell you what - anybody wants one of those, I'll make it for $10k instead (In pm's preferably). Line forms to the left. I'd make a ton of money even if I paid the machinists on my own board to do it all CNC out of the best alloys. Their stuff comes out looking like jewelry.

Not my own taste. I don't like light, short barreled carbines in "big" calibers. You lose the long range/accuracy aspect in exchange for having what amounts to an AR in .223 with much more expensive, heavy, and noisy ammo and more recoil - hard to get off shots *on target* as fast, actually. 16" ain't enough for .308 to really do its thing - ask the Army, Marine, and Seals snipers. They go with 24" to 26" on their long range guns in .308 for a good reason.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #32
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Just saw Supreme Court Justice Breyer was robbed for second time in 3 months. I looked up his record and he's voted anti-gun for private citizens every time. Very antigun. Wonder if he'll change his mind now?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...est=latestnews
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #33
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~Opinion w/ my own personal experience~ I carry a Springfield XD40 4" Service model. I carry concealed w/blackhawk serpa holster. The firearm does weigh down my belt just a tad, so to remedy it, i wear my belt a little tighter and has worked fine. I wear a little bit larger shirt untucked to conceal. leaves a little bit of a print, but nothing that shows the shape of the firearm. I chose the .40 because it puts the right size hole in the paper, and has the necessary stopping power, and personally, it was the most comfortable for me to shoot. I rented several different calibers at a range before i chose one, and liked the .40 the best.

I have only had one run-in in a store w/management at the local Lowe's, i was open carrying. the manager wasn't aware that their corporate policy was to follow federal, state, and local laws regarding customers carrying firearms in the store. Their management has been trained and know better than to kick someone out of the store for carrying a firearm.

Just my .02
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:10 PM   #34
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A sunny disposition usually goes a long way toward deflecting troubles when you carry. I've had a number of interesting experiences in that regard. My bank? Ask them and they said - please do - and please carry open, we know you and it makes us feel safer.

Believe it or not - liquor store, same response.

But I once had a kinda bad day (turned out great) soon after that shooting at VA tech. I went to that area to get an oil change, and skipped over to the quickie mart next door to get a hot dog while I waited. The Indian girl behind the counter about had a heart attack. Didn't say anything, but it was obviously scaring her, so I piped up and told her, no, I wasn't there to rob her, and in fact would protect her if someone else tried. All smiles after that, and I pointed out that you never see a holster involved in a real robbery. Then I go back to the waiting room at the jiffy lube, and some guy gets all excercised about it - I look the opposite of a cop to say the least, and asked me if I had a permit etc etc. Of course, I do (but don't need one for open carry) so I just showed it to him, and he was fine after that, I think assuming that I was a really good undercover cop. But he was pretty belligerent about it.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:18 PM   #35
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So what did you decide to do Bonzo? For my purposes, and for my reasons, I would buy the .45, 9mm and the .40. That way, I have all of them. ; - )
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
So what did you decide to do Bonzo? For my purposes, and for my reasons, I would buy the .45, 9mm and the .40. That way, I have all of them. ; - )
Followed by the 22, 380, 38, 357, and 44?
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Old 05-24-2012, 01:14 PM   #37
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I would recommend a .38 revolver or 380 (Ruger LCP) for carry, .45 for the car or the house (if you really want only a handgun for the house)...

But, a handgun in the house is a good backup for your 12 ga shotgun.

It's hard to hit things with single bullets in the dark or under stress. I'd fully recommend a shotgun for household use. Load up some 00 buckshot or some of those defense rounds in an extended tube, 18-inch barreled shotgun and you are good to go.

I'd choose Ruger for handguns (auto or revolver) and Remington for shotguns. You could always go with a high end 1911 .45, but I find that many of them require a lot of care before they become reliable.

I won't buy any Smiths because of that stupid lock that they put on almost all of their guns... revolvers included. (Except they make a version of the 642 in .38 with no lock) I won't even buy a Smith without it, since that lock is a dumb corporate policy / decision.

Whatever you choose, I'm glad to see more guns out there in the hands of the public!

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Old 05-24-2012, 01:16 PM   #38
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BTW - The Ruger 380 LCP gets the most ride time with me.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:17 PM   #39
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ADK,
The rule is that a handgun is just a tool to allow you to get to your battle rifle. ; - )
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Old 05-24-2012, 08:27 PM   #40
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I agree, 100%...

Honestly, I have a good selection of handguns, but the one I carry the most is the little LCP. The best handgun is the one that you carry.

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