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Old 12-29-2012, 12:57 PM   #1
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Gun Show Today

So, I followed through and went to the gun show in Melbourne today.

It Was Nuts!

There was a huge line three wide snaking around the building, and everyone was quite well mannered and patient about the line. When we finally got in it was asshole to elbow all throughout the venue, and people were not just looking, they were buying up everything in sight.

The big AR guy was about half cleaned out, selling most of his basic AR-15's in the first two hours at double what he used to sell them. Uppers were going for between 800 and 1,700 dollars. A complete lower with a collapsible stock was 475 to 700 dollars. Ammo was just plain stupid.

5.56 was going for 700 dollars a thousand for plain old 55 gr. steel case and brass was a buck a round. 7.62 X 39 was nearly the same.

I did pick up a few hundred rounds of 9mm from my local guy who winked and said he would give me the "locals discount", which meant he wasn't going to step on my wallet and sold it for the usual price. He did telll me however, that supply lines are tight and he is out of a lot of stuff. He offerred to buy any and all brass I have at a premium or for trade credit. I have three five gallon buckets of brass so I may just do that.

People, it is worse than when O was first elected.

I suspect that prices will remain elevated for a while, perhaps all the way through spring and in to summer, but I believe that they will fall back when all of this demand [which is simply pulled forward] is sated. I would say that if no meaningful legislation or outright bans are passed, that we will see prices fall to below equilibrium as all of the shops burning overtime right now overproduce and create a glut in the market.

The people I saw today were simply reacting to a perceived situation and appeared to believe that it was to be now or never. Anyone familiar with government knows that when a blue ribbon panel is set up to look in to something, it is usually to allow emotions to settle down so it can be examined more objectively. The creation of this panel lends the appearance [to the concerned public] that "they are doing something about it". Later, when emotions are no longer high, some legisdlation or another will make it to the floor for consideration. This could take a year or more.

I am taking a wait and see attitude for now, but will indeed load up on more ammo if and when I encounter fairly priced rounds. As far as selling one of our rigs, I think I will hold on to what I have for now.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:22 PM   #2
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-- noted- fire arms are of no use with out ammo, and even less useful if the person has no idea how to use it
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:43 PM   #3
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Not entirely true Penn. My daughters SKS has a flip out bayonet, which is quite lethal on the end of an empty rifle. Absent the bayonet, I would not want someone to grab one by the barrel and swing it at my skull. Are they less lethal? Yes. Are they useless? No.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:50 PM   #4
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ok- always good to learn something.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:10 PM   #5
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...

WOW, ancona, great reporting!!!

I hear ya re Blue Ribbon Committees, etc. taking a long time to get something through Congress. But maybe Obama can tighten things up by Executive Order?! (I would not know, my prep school did not have anything like a civics class...)

I remember (I am almost sure I have mentioned this here at pmbug in the past) the day after O got elected in 2008. That day after, a guy I know in rural NC went out and bought a Righteous Amount ($12,000) of guns and ammo to add to his already extensive collection. It seems that people are even more, ahh, hair-triggered (sorry!) this time around.

The Holiday Season has slowed me down re preps, but as soon as some of them leave and I have time to do what I want, I will be out there buying ammo, overpriced or not. One of my favorite sayings "Git while the gittin's good!" applies here. I have found that gittin while the gitting was good has allowed me to stock up on things that subsequently got harder to get... Like what? That's MY business!

I close with another saying:

"Ain't nobody's business what I do..." From a song, I do not know who.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:34 PM   #6
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wifes friend went down to Cabellas super store yesterday, she said fifty deep waiting on background checks ammo etc. also way overpriced.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:51 AM   #7
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I agree that this boom is mostly 2013's demand being shifted forward. The economy still sucks so I seriously doubt people are goign to be able to keep dropping $1000 on rifles at the current rate. I expect things to settle a bit in a few months.

Usually the .gov moves slow as snot, but then again there are times, like the Repeal the 4th Amendament Act, where they have somethign ready to go and just ram it through. The fact that they weren't able to ram through, or at least get on the floor, something already tells me this will take a while.

I've bought some stuff, but they were all things that I was planning on getting anyways and who's prices did not jump since most of my stuff is not the super popular AR/Glock equipment.

I've at times been frustrated that my less common equipment is not well supported by the local bullet stores. I thought it must be nice to be able to walk into any bigbox sporting goods store and buy mags, holsters, and etc., but part of me said those will be hard to come by at some point since EVERYONE has an AR and a Glock or 1911. Given what we have seen this last month, the later part of me turned out to be correct. I'll stick with slightly off beat gear, still from big time manufacturers, but that aren't as popular. I've been watching local ammo supplies closely for this for the better part of a year and it will influence my next purchase in terms of caliber.


BTW: found a new source for mags: http://www.themakogroup.com/
They carry Israli-made E-Lander mags for ARs and some other guns as well. They seem to be just starting this up, but have a huge pile of mags coming in.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #8
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front page of Drudge wants us to believe that gun ban will be Obamas focus for 2013 (besides doubling taxes). Some of the gun blogs I'm reading seem to think this is the .govs way of identifying who "has" guns and could be considered the "enemy".
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:19 PM   #9
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a group of us ron paul people in my area are going to one as a group in bloomsburg in Feb.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:40 PM   #10
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Just to add, the three main gun stores in my area have had no .223 rounds for the last few weeks and MagPul who makes my personal favorite clip for the AR is not accepting public orders, only taking orders from there distributers.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Penn View Post:
a group of us ron paul people in my area are going to one as a group in bloomsburg in Feb.
I've heard about you Ron Paul people!!!

Seriously, this thing has taken a life of its own....
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:25 PM   #12
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Jay- there is about 24 of us locally- we have taken on other issues- we actually meet face to face- tho much happens via facebook.

I made it a goal to know more locals.

At the moment we have some division- 2 of us want the fluoride out of the water- where as key players want the NDAA gone.

I got one hooked on the good RO water. Another always invites me to car pool to events and knows every coin show that is scheduled.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:49 PM   #13
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yay RO water!
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:56 AM   #14
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People should be acquiring reloading supplies and tools and skills, not selling brass.
Anything else is depending on hope.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:19 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
People should be acquiring reloading supplies and tools and skills, not selling brass.
Anything else is depending on hope.
another thought is to buy the dies you need if your friend doesn't load that cal.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:42 AM   #16
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That's a good place to begin. In fact, that plan is operating in my neighbourhood, many people have bought dies for whatever weird thing they've got that I don't, and we use my presses to make them their ammo. For handguns, I have a fair number of bullet molds as well, and we recycle lead from my backstop on the range, wheel weights and so on. They work fine and are accurate. I also have molds for rifle bullets, but you have to shoot those reduced power or they have "issues". Still work fine on varmints, though.

It's easier to get full value from quality ammo than it is to get paid right for a silver dime!
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:54 AM   #17
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DC, I don't reload, but am a major source for lead in my area. My remediation groups frequently encounter lead during abatement and demolition jobs, so I collect it for re-use.

Lead shower pan liners, lead sheilding from X-ray rooms, etc. We have around six thousand pounds coming in a few weeks when we demolish the old clinic on CCAFS. The old X-ray room was built in the late fifties so the sheilding will be significantly thicker than the lead foil they use on the back of drywall in modern x-ray room construction. I expect to find it under the ceramic tile and mud bed as well. We have a guy in our little group who reloads and has the ability to cast bullets as well. I am not very big on working too closely with lead, given my line of work and how heavily involved I am with working around contaminants of all types.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:07 AM   #18
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Lead oxide (or acetate) is the enemy, FWIW. Metallic lead just doesn't metabolize - nothing in your body can "eat" it very easily. It's much more dangerous stuff for the young, as high lead levels affect brain development. It doesn't affect we oldies nearly as much. Keep your lead away from vinegar!

In fact, from Lee's reloading manual, someone was once tested for lead exposure and found to have high levels. Being a caster, they first suspected that, and went all over the guy's environment to find where the lead was coming from.

The surprising answer was that it was coming from the brass cleaning operation - primers have lead azide in them and the results get all over the inside of the brass. The tumbling media pick this up, and it gets into the air when you clean the brass, so that's the danger point. I cast clean lead with flux floating on the melt - it doesn't get into the air.

Some of the things you alloy with the lead (pure lead is too soft) are a bit worse. Tin for castability is fine, and it hardens it some. But antimony has about the same effects as arsenic, and for hot loads you use a lot (linotype alloy). But still, it's not the casting that gets lead into you - it's handling old, corroded lead (the oxides etc), and perhaps even cleaning guns from lead fouling with chemicals that dissolve it - and which you can then metabolize.

So, you go to all this trouble to be largely self sufficient and can't do a couple hundred bucks for reloading? I'm having trouble making sense of that one for any frequent shooter - you can make better ammo for *your* gun than you can buy for any price. This is because ammo makers have to hit the "small limit" of the SAMMI specs, and gun makers have to hit the large limit so everything works everywhere. But that sloppy fit kills accuracy - and it doesn't matter how much power you expend into a bullet that misses.

Any spare lead you want to get rid of...let me know. One super hot item, FWIW, is the old leaded glass from X ray rooms, it's hard to find, and expensive, and my friends that play with fusion really create some demand for that and for lead sheet.
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