prepay meters - in the house for gas UK

[Penn]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/personal-finance/court-orders-500000-people-pre-pay-5762199

It seems energy is so expensive in the UK- that they are installing meters that you prepay- sort of like when you gas up a car.

Is this our future?

Maybe frack protesters would enjoy this system better.

 

[11C1P]

Yeah, we've got so much of it here, we're burning it off. Good thing we can't ship any over there. I mean if only they were some terror supporting country I'm sure it would happen like that. Obviously as they are one of our allies why should we do something that would help both countries.

 

[Penn]

They have a high tax. They also have VAT. So- that would increase the problem

 

[bushi]

As far as I understand, there are no gas export terminals in the US (one or two were in the process of being built/ being rubber stamped, couple of years ago, if memory serves me well.

Fracking is a retirement party of gas/oil. It will peak in few years in the US, and it is so immensely non-economical, it's criminal. I would not be surprised, if the soon-to-be collapse of fracking industry, would be the trigger of the next wave of crisis.

 

[11C1P]

Fracking is a retirement party of gas/oil. It will peak in few years in the US, and it is so immensely non-economical, it's criminal. I would not be surprised, if the soon-to-be collapse of fracking industry, would be the trigger of the next wave of crisis.

I've been hearing that the oil will dry up in a few years since I was old enough to know what oil was, and people were saying the same thing long before that.

 

[bushi]

I guess we will see in few years time, although I base my position on something slightly more substantial than "the oil was always there, and doomsayers were always saying we are running out of it"

 

[11C1P]

I guess we will see in few years time, although I base my position on something slightly more substantial than "the oil was always there, and doomsayers were always saying we are running out of it"

I know it will eventually run out, but the rate they are making new finds, developing new techniques to extract previously "unrecoverable" oil, and better ways to locate new oil reserves in addition to what we already know is recoverable, I am not worried about it running out in my lifetime, probably not my kids life times, maybe maybe my grand-kids life time, beyond that I might as well start worrying about the sun going super nova too if I need things to worry about that will happen after I'm dead and gone.

 

[bushi]

By 2020, tops, there will be a mere shadow of the current fracking industry in the US, and it probably won't be developed nowhere else in the world (because there is no other country that has the luxury of wasting freshly printed dollars by the trillions, and burn them (literally), on the industry that makes no economical sense whatsoever, and is a giant ponzi scheme).
Fracking requires a) very high oil prices (much higher than today's), and b) zero interest rates, to continue any pretense of being "viable industry" (which it isn't, and never was)

 

[Penn]

it isnt running out. not when they can power a whole village over a vat of sewage. we are constantly making more methane etc.

 

[bushi]

...wait, did we switch from fracking, to renewables now

 

[11C1P]

By 2020, tops, there will be a mere shadow of the current fracking industry in the US, and it probably won't be developed nowhere else in the world (because there is no other country that has the luxury of wasting freshly printed dollars by the trillions, and burn them (literally), on the industry that makes no economical sense whatsoever, and is a giant ponzi scheme).
Fracking requires a) very high oil prices (much higher than today's), and b) zero interest rates, to continue any pretense of being "viable industry" (which it isn't, and never was)

I agree that fracking will slow down and stop when the price of oil goes down, but the price of oil doesn't go down from a lack of available oil. When the supply is low and/or demand is high, then the price will go up. Fairly simple economic principles really. Even before fracking we had oil here, but after the drop in oil prices back in the 80's, the drilling for the easy stuff stopped, and a lot of the pumps were shut down. Then when the price of oil shot up. all of a sudden everyone came drilling like crazy. Now the Saudi's and the rest of OPEC are trying to shut the frackers down so they can control the oil prices, especially since we aren't allowed to sell to the rest of the world like they are so they have a keen interest in keeping a strangle hold on oil prices. It's not a ponzi scheme it's a virtual monopoly by OPEC, at least as far as selling outside the U.S.

 

[bushi]

Yes it is a ponzi, sorry brother. There are scarcely ANY fracking companies with a positive cash flow, they virtually ALL are totally dependent on the inflow of fresh investment cash (thus, by extension, also on zero interest rates), the decline rates of a single well are insanely fast (therefore, even to keep the total extraction rate flat, they need to drill, baby, drill, all the time).
...I could do that all day

 

[11C1P]

Yes it is a ponzi, sorry brother. There are scarcely ANY fracking companies with a positive cash flow, they virtually ALL are totally dependent on the inflow of fresh investment cash (thus, by extension, also on zero interest rates), the decline rates of a single well are insanely fast (therefore, even to keep the total extraction rate flat, they need to drill, baby, drill, all the time).
...I could do that all day

Sorry bro, but the only positive cash flow these companies needed was oil over $60/bbl. That's why it's slowed down here, but still not stopped. When it was $100/bbl they could hardly not make boat loads of money no matter how badly the company was run. The decline rates of wells here are only insanely fast if you consider over 10 years insanely fast, and that number is just cause that's only how long the fracked wells have been pumping here. There are regular wells that have been online for close to 30 years, though many of them didn't pump a lot from the mid 80's to the late 90's.

 

[bushi]

Factually not true, almost none of them were actually making money at around 90 per barrel. Re: well decline rates, I'm talking average rates, because that's the only thing that counts, and these are ridiculous. I could not care less, if "there are some wells that were online for 30 years".
And I haven't even add the damage to the infrastructure, that that insanely investment-heavy operation brings (roads, bridges, to start with). By some measures, these companies are ONLY able to stay afloat (as shakily as it is), if someone else is footing that particular bill for them... Nothing better than socialized costs, personalised profits, to fuck up the remnants of capitalism

 

[rblong2us]

heh

careful not to stray into belief systems and end up like the glowball warming, sorry climate change pro and anti believers .........

I have read articles on fracking that sound convincing for both sides of the argument and really do not know what to think.

Trouble is Zero Hedge will always look for the biggest impact articles and unfortunately ZH is my main source of daily world info.

oh and regarding the OP, apparently weve 'never had it so good in the UK' as the average disposable income, after all taxes and living costs, is some daft amount that Ive never experienced.

All I can say is that I talk to more people struggling financially than i do people with money to play with.
Perhaps I should stop going to festivals and join a golf club or something ?

 

[11C1P]

I have read articles on fracking that sound convincing for both sides of the argument and really do not know what to think.

The fact is that business start to make money, and the oil companies are making tons of money, especially here. If a business doesn't make money for too long, the go out of business. Might as well declare the restaurant business as being fake too, do you know what % of them go belly up? It's way higher than the drillers and frackers.

 

[rblong2us]

The fact is that business start to make money, and the oil companies are making tons of money, especially here. If a business doesn't make money for too long, the go out of business.

Its likely the drillers are making money and the infrastructure and shipping companies are making money but with the debt created to invest in an oil company being treated the way they sold mortgages to anyone who could breathe unaided, I would not be able to ascertain if the apparent profit you claim was real or not.