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Old 07-05-2013, 05:12 PM   #1
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Exclamation property tax is up over 30% I am furious

Just got my tax bill- it went up over 30% I am livid!
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:36 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Penn View Post:
Just got my tax bill- it went up over 30% I am livid!
getting you ready for later...
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:00 PM   #3
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Im thinking of selling and going in the highrise
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:17 PM   #4
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dont do it Penn

you loose your garden and a feeling of belonging

eat vast amounts of fast food and get disability .......

then all your bills will be paid for by your local friendly gov.
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Old 07-05-2013, 06:37 PM   #5
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highrises work out great when theres no water or electricity
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:19 PM   #6
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...

Penn, there is one other thing to keep in mind too, if applicable.

If we were to sell our condo here, we would have to pay a stiff Cap Gains on it, and then any other (smaller) one we would buy would cost MORE than what we paid for this one (years ago).

So, for us, moving to a smaller condo would wind up costing us MORE in Property Tax... Grr... Feel for ya, bud...

***

FWIW, I would be in favor of chucking the federal and local state taxes and just do a variation of a National Sales Tax (Consumption Tax). Which ought to make the Greenies happy (discourage all those nasty gases and all...), but the Left would certainly cry "Foul!" as it would be regressive. Still, there is a simplicity to: "You buy something, you pay a tax on it." Say 10%, or 20% (total), across the board, no exceptions. That would also rub our noses in it -- we would know exactly HOW MUCH our taxes are with each receipt...
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:18 AM   #7
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Penn, I changed the thread title. Common sense is dead when reading hyperbole these days.
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:13 PM   #8
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It's too bad we can't actually own property in the US but instead have to rent it from our government.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Aubuy View Post:
It's too bad we can't actually own property in the US but instead have to rent it from our government.
...yeah, my thoughts exactly - how exactly is it MY property, if I have to pay someone else for the privilege of "owning" it, under the penalty of loosing my "property" and being booted out, if I fail to pay, for whatever reason?? That doesn't make ANY sense, whatsoever.


Where's Adam Smith today, when we need him? With governments, being the shameless rent seekers today????
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:24 AM   #10
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While I would dispute that a condo owner can't move to a better place and have money left over, in my mind, moving to another condo is just frying pan/fire, DoChen. You could probably buy a farm around where I live with the proceeds of selling a condo in a big city, not just a dinkier condo (which are rare around these parts). That's just a life-decision you maybe don't admit to making.

Land here is at most $4k an acre, there's plenty of people who can build a house on it for not all that much - I spent 20k. Work it out. Or just check real estate listings for my area for already-all-done stuff. It's not that high. No home owner association and fees and limits, either. You don't even have to mow your lawn if you don't mind how it looks.

Now, let me tell you a story about tax increases in my county - which amounted to 3x in one year - not 30% but 300%. They've gone up more since, which is one reason I practice all the tax evasion I can muster (I'll explain how later).

Here's how they pulled it off - despite my warning a goodly fraction of the populace what the trick was going to be.

We used to tax farmland (most of the county) at X$/acre, flat tax, simple, and the number was pretty low - around $3/acre/year. There was in addition, the usual PP tax on things you owned - home, cars, tools, but it was quite reasonable since both the rate, and the values were in general pretty low.

Some county councilman comes up with the idea that we have to do it all based on assessed values, you know, like the prosperous city-based county next door. Not to worry, he sez, as we'll just assess everything really low, and no one's tax bill will change much. Yeah, right - that's when all my alarm bells went off. The initial tax rate was only .02 - it's now .04. The initial assessments were quite low - less than I have money in my place to just buy the land quite awhile back when it was a lot cheaper/acre too.

This goes on for about a year, and no one is pissed, because no one's tax bill really went up all that much.

Then we have the crash etc. Some smart politician points out that, while we all have to tighten our belts, the gov does not - and think of the children etc etc. We need to "fairly assess" all the stuff in the county, and bingo - 3x tax bill increase. So bad, they went from once a year to twice so most people might miss it. And most, while grumbling a little more or less did. During a time you couldn't hardly eat (or make a profit on your farm due to this) - they rebuilt the entire courthouse from the inside out - the most expensive possible way to do things - built a new school - not needed, the student numbers are down, and so on - pure waste of our money. Now people are getting pissed, but there's nothing at all that can be done about it - bureaucracies grow without limit anytime they can, and it's a ratchet effect - they never shrink. Every county around us has even higher rates and property values, justified I suppose by asking prices on places - since there are few to zero sales to actually go by.

I know this because it hit me - and they reassessed my land based on "comparable" stuff - say a home on similar acres that had been on the market two years at a ridiculous asking price, but never sold at that price, and I had quite a battle getting that pointed out and accepted. And in fact, there IS no comparable place to mine - off grid - within 20 miles anyway.

Further, how do you argue with even a completely fair assessment - the super low one was the lie, not the new one. Nice trick in politics, eh?


And that's how I still pay less taxes than almost anyone anyway. I'm off-grid. Completely other than telephone/internet. Turns out, the people in charge of building permits are the power company - that was delegated to them by the county many years ago. And almost everyone - needs the power company, so the enforcement is nearly 100%. Except me, that is. All 4 of my liveable spaces - homes if you will - have no permits, and as such are taxed as "barns and sheds". There are some rules for this -
1. I had to start with bare land, obviously, and then build on it - myself. No contractor would risk losing his license doing this. If the land hadn't been bare to begin with, it'd already have permits and records.

2. There are some things I can't do, legally, without permits, or practically - see above. No one will drill me a well. No one will install a big "truck comes to refill" oil or propane tank. I'm not supposed to have running water or a drainfield (but I do in one building, well hidden stuff). Of course, I can't get grid power as that triggers the entire enforcement chain.

So, I pay taxes on my cars, and on my "barns" - this building, which cost an amazingly low ~20k to build and finish (about $20/sq foot) is assessed as a barn at $5k. That's less than the cost of my lathe on the ground floor alone. They just don't know how to handle this situation, because I'm "the only" and policy isn't made for one customer.

And, not too long ago, the building inspector dropped by, seeing the big to-do we had going on putting up all those new solar panels. He wanted his piece of the pie, asked me to go fill in some forms and pay like $25 for doing it. I simply never went in there - and he forgot, and forgot to check that I have no permits for anything else anyway. This guy was pretty straight up - I couldn't simply bribe him with a joint like his predecessor, and I guess he assumed that since everything looks OK, nothing has collapsed or started on fire...that it's OK.

We even discussed what I could do to "get legal". The one building I have that has the right number of doors/windows (there are specs for that for firefighters etc) is a very old trailer from W VA, that has aluminum wiring - which of course is not to code itself, and is actually kind of dangerous - I plan to re-wire it, after having it all fail after a previous re-do (leaving the same wire, but re-doing all the outlets with the magic aluminum wire anti-corrosion goop, which only lasts a few years - and most of them had fires in them - and have again, this time I'll really just replace the whole system.

But politics is the art of the possible. He quickly realized I was a complete outlier, and really could not drop everything to do that, so he shined it on. After all, when I ran a business, I brought literally millions of dollars into the county to be spent here - that's well known. If unhampered, I might do so again, also well known.

Funny old world, eh?
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:11 PM   #11
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My lot is a corner lot- and I have a carport.

I doubt I will sell.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:47 PM   #12
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...

+ 2 or more DCFusor... PMBug, maybe you ought to consider how we can give more than "one like"...

1) GREAT example of a cancerous fast growth of government! Wow, newly elected guys come in to "improve" the county ("promises, promises"), and look at what they do! Waste the money, big time. An entrenched bureaucracy, which I had only thought of at the Federal or state levels (although my town (9000 or so) has some bureaucracy and they DO waste a LOT of money -- new Town Hall, a "Community Center" and they're looking at a "dog park"...).

2) You used to pay $3 / acre / year... I used to pay a little over $3 / sq ft / year!

3) Having rural land means I would have to work!!! Ack! Or maybe some semblance of work. Maybe I could just sharecrop it out (like "Matt in NC" does...).

4) Ahh, the good old days! When you could bribe someone with a joint! Too bad I didn't have one when the cop in Canada nailed me for speeding (122....., km) there on the way back to Montreal from the gold mine. He did not seem like the kind of cop that would have worked on though, so maybe it's just as well. I was able to pay the fine at a bank in Montreal, so they didn't have to throw me in jail, which my wife would have really loved...

5) Your note comes at an interesting moment for prospective country dwellers, folks wanting OUT of the city. Yesterday at Zero Hedge, "Cognitive Dissonance" (the guy who used to write a lot about psychology and similar) announced that he and Mrs. Cog were moving to the country (from the DC suburbs)! Very rural, they did a fair amount of homework. One of the commentators, a country guy, wrote a long-ish piece that was almost/kind-of a warning, ("Welcome to the country"), in which he wrote that it would be important to be tolerant, not city-like ("Where are the streelights?"), NOT to pay too much for the property (as that would raise local property taxes), to be aware of the crazy guy living on that other mountain, ugly local politics (personal grudges), etc. It's worth a look for any city types (me and Mrs. Bearing) who entertain these ideas...
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Last edited by DoChenRollingBearing; 07-08-2013 at 09:49 PM. Reason: What was I thinking? "Joint" has to be GREEN!
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by DoChenRollingBearing View Post:
...





5) Yesterday at Zero Hedge, "Cognitive Dissonance" (the guy who used to write a lot about psychology and similar) announced that he and Mrs. Cog were moving to the country (from the DC suburbs)! Very rural, they did a fair amount of homework.
DCRB, I went back through the archives looking for this article, but couldn't find it. Do you remember the name? Would like to read it...
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:01 AM   #14
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Jay, here you go:

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...g-out-dc-burbs
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DoChenRollingBearing View Post:
...

Jay, here you go:

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed...g-out-dc-burbs
thanks...
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:15 PM   #16
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I saw cog's article but too late to be worth commenting. (does anyone read past the first page there?) If he moved anywhere near here, well...I should contact them and offer my help.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:49 PM   #17
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Cog (if it is the same Cog) posted on Malthusia.com for years. (invitation only). Every kind of doom you could desire... I quit posting there cause I couldn't take the heat..., (same with peakoil.com)

edited to add, this is NOT the same Cog.

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Old 07-10-2013, 08:45 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
... (does anyone read past the first page there?) ...
I don't think so. Just spiders.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:26 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
I don't think so. Just spiders.
sometimes I do....
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