Bundesbank to Repatriate 374 Tons of Gold From Bank of France, Substantial Portion of Gold Held at t

mmerlinn

Ground Beetle
Messages
625
Reaction score
4
Points
136
Location
Here, There, and Everywhere
Because you have to ask yourself, why would Germany decide to do this? What do they see that the rest of us don’t see that requires them to physically move this gold out of lower Manhattan and obviously in Paris, as well, back to their borders?

I can think of several reasons why.

First, France is rapidly becoming another Greece and Germany does not want her gold at risk. Second, if France becomes another Greece and still has German gold, France has a carrot to extract help from Germany that the Germans may not want to give. With no German gold in France, Germany can treat the French just as they did Greece and are commencing to do with Cyprus, basically economically colonizing (enslaving) them. In a nutshell getting the gold out of France finalizes the divorce of France and Germany.

Much the same can be said for the U.S., but we are bigger, further away, and not yet to the stage France is. Once it becomes clear that the U.S. is on the rocks, Germany will divorce us, too.

From a military point of view, having the gold home makes a lot of sense. If Germany is beholden to no one, Germany can pursue whatever avenue she wants to pursue without fear of the consequences of an economic meltdown. A country with unbacked money can be blackmailed with threats of destroying the economic system of that country through massive counterfeiting of that country's money. Gold prevents that Damocles sword syndrome.

These are just some of the reasons to repatriate the gold. From my perspective, and I am sure from Germany's perspective, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
 

ancona

Praying Mantis
Messages
3,359
Reaction score
20
Points
0
Location
Waaay south
Here's an idea, howzabout we petition to see our own gold?

Oh that's right, we already did and they said NO!
 

rblong2us

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
156
Points
178
Location
off world
I can think of several reasons why.

First, France is rapidly becoming another Greece and Germany does not want her gold at risk. Second, if France becomes another Greece and still has German gold, France has a carrot to extract help from Germany that the Germans may not want to give. With no German gold in France, Germany can treat the French just as they did Greece and are commencing to do with Cyprus, basically economically colonizing (enslaving) them. In a nutshell getting the gold out of France finalizes the divorce of France and Germany.

Much the same can be said for the U.S., but we are bigger, further away, and not yet to the stage France is. Once it becomes clear that the U.S. is on the rocks, Germany will divorce us, too.

From a military point of view, having the gold home makes a lot of sense. If Germany is beholden to no one, Germany can pursue whatever avenue she wants to pursue without fear of the consequences of an economic meltdown. A country with unbacked money can be blackmailed with threats of destroying the economic system of that country through massive counterfeiting of that country's money. Gold prevents that Damocles sword syndrome.

These are just some of the reasons to repatriate the gold. From my perspective, and I am sure from Germany's perspective, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

this is an 'us and them' isolationist approach.
Previous attempts to do this created wars.
The whole idea was to share everything and be equal trading partners thus removing any temptation to fall out.

I see no good coming from bringing home the gold, even though I totally understand the sentiment ............

A bit of 'fourth turning' in play )-:
 

mmerlinn

Ground Beetle
Messages
625
Reaction score
4
Points
136
Location
Here, There, and Everywhere
this is an 'us and them' isolationist approach.
Previous attempts to do this created wars.
The whole idea was to share everything and be equal trading partners thus removing any temptation to fall out.

I see no good coming from bringing home the gold, even though I totally understand the sentiment ............

A bit of 'fourth turning' in play )-:

Exactly. And the same thing will happen again.
 

swissaustrian

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,053
Reaction score
0
Points
0

DSAbug

Yellow Jacket
Messages
1,045
Reaction score
0
Points
0

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
...
There have been widespread stories that the Fed does not have the gold to return as gold held for governments is usually, ‘unallocated’. This suggests that the German gold reserves were not ‘allocated’. Ordinarily, central bank monetary reserves should be held in an ‘allocated’ format to evidence to whom they belong. As it is, held in an ‘unallocated’ form, in simplistic terms, this means that should the Fed fail, foreign central banks holding their gold there would be that unsecured creditors. This concern has been voiced inside Germany. It has been noted that the gold of Germany has not been audited in the past and it should be, on a regular basis. The German Court of Auditors told legislators that the gold had "never been verified physically" and ordered the Bundesbank to secure access to the storage sites. It called for repatriation of 150 tons over the next three years to test the quality and weight of the gold bars. But Germany has decided to move more than in this recommendation. It is said that Frankfurt has no register of the numbered gold bars.
...
As we said above, the move of this gold to Frankfurt will allow time to ensure the central banks where the gold is held, to get hold of the gold if they do not have it at the moment. The prospect of developed world central banks now competing with those of the emerging world in the gold market may well start the next leg of the gold bull market because this new, persistent, price-insensitive buying has the power to take gold to a whole new level! We watch to see. If this does happen, then the whole nature of gold in the money system will change even before the changes are ‘officially’ accepted. Gold will be in a ‘de facto’ pivotal position in the monetary system again. It will be a short time from that point before it is ‘officially’ accepted then. The way will have been paved for China to arrive on the scene and gold to have a vital function in the monetary system between two very different and unconnected, politically and economically, power blocs, the developed world and the emerging world with China as its hub.

The last time the world was divided on this basis was at the start of both world wars. The consequences to the monetary world then were so devastating and saw the destruction of national currencies on both sides, in Europe.
...

More: http://www.ibtimes.com/big-picture-behind-germany-taking-half-its-gold-home-1042254
 

mmerlinn

Ground Beetle
Messages
625
Reaction score
4
Points
136
Location
Here, There, and Everywhere
The last time the world was divided on this basis was at the start of both world wars. The consequences to the monetary world then were so devastating and saw the destruction of national currencies on both sides, in Europe.

We are witnessing history repeating itself again. Get prepared.
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
clip_image002_thumb1.gif


http://www.jsmineset.com/2013/07/16/jims-mailbox-1313/
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
Large image:
 
25769.png


...
Wanna know what I think, folks? I think the central banks have been leasing their gold out for decades to the bullion banks and now find themselves in the rather precarious position of needing to reclaim that which they are supposed to own before the shortfall is exposed. I think that creates a big problem for both sides of that little scheme.

I think the smash in paper was specifically designed to shake out loose holders — and it has worked to a degree, but only amongst the weaker holders of the ETFs, who tend to "rent" gold rather than own it. I think the stronger hands have been getting their gold out of the official warehouses as fast as they can; and central banks in places like China, Russia, and all over the rest of Asia and South America have been trying to buy and, crucially, to take delivery of physical gold while they still can.

I also think that retail investors — particularly here in Asia — are, unfortunately, compounding the banks' problems by using the weakness in the paper markets to acquire as much physical metal (or, as it's known in this part of the world, "wealth") as they can.
...

Long: http://www.mauldineconomics.com/ttmygh/what-if
 

swissaustrian

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,053
Reaction score
0
Points
0

Correlation might not equal causation here:

1. The repatriation is said to be spread over 7 years, so why the rush?

2. ETFs have lost much more than 374 tons in 6 1/2 months.

-----------

But it might support my suspicion that ETF inventories are in fact COMEX (fractional reserve) futures which would be a major scandal. See my argument here: http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f13/comex-deliveries-registered-gold-silver-too-15/index2.html#post20433

Kyle Basses take on the COMEX:

 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
...
1. The repatriation is said to be spread over 7 years, so why the rush?
...

Maybe the Bundesbank repatriation news really did spark other sovereigns to start some (quite) repatriation efforts of their own. Or maybe it just started a "bank run" on physical gold. Or China might be applying the screws all by themselves. Or some combination thereof.
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
J S Kim said:
Below is a recent correspondence from our friend Lars Schall, an independent financial journalist, and the German Central Bank, the Deutsche Bundesbank, regarding the exact whereabouts and specifications of Germany’s national gold reserve. From the correspondence below, it appears that the US Central Bank had already leased out Germany’s gold reserves in prior years and no longer has it, as the gold bars the US Central Bankers returned to Germany last year were clearly not the same ones that Germany originally deposited with them. The questions Mr. Schall’s revelations now beg is (1) if the Banque de France and the Bank of England have Germany’s original gold as well; and (2) if the various Central Bankers are deliberately returning Germany’s gold on a painfully slow timeline because they have already leased out Germany’s gold into the open market in prior years, no longer hold it, and must therefore scrape together Germany’s gold from the open market now.
...

More: https://www.smartknowledgeu.com/blo...housed-in-new-york-paris-and-london-all-gone/

Edit: Looks like GATA broke the original story: http://www.gata.org/node/13458
 

DCFusor

Yellow Jacket
Messages
1,669
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Floyd, Virginia
I rarely put on my tinfoil hat (at least in my own view) but this is a case for putting it on. There's no sane reason I can think of that fits the facts so well, other than we simply don't have the gold to repatriate. We know the reputation of truthiness or lack thereof of those who tell us it's something else.

Hence some on-the-sly otherwise-illegal paper short-selling by various parties, to drive down the price of phys so they can get it to repatriate - in 7 years what fedex could move in a day or two. And even now, they are well behind the 7 year schedule!

I think the ZH article and some of the comments might be on-point. I'm not sure about the implications for the price of gold in FRNs, or if that will really mean much if TSHTF anyway - I'd be more interested in the price of gold in, say, beef, or loaves of bread, or firewood.

There's truly a counterparty risk in any asset, gold included. Gold just has a much better track record figured over long time intervals than anything else much. But there will always be exceptions.

Think of this (obviously somewhat artificial) case. One guy in the desert, dying of thirst. Another guy passing through who has just enough water on him to make it himself. Will he take the first guy's gold for his canteen? I wouldn't - it's not worth my life: dead+rich still == dead.. Counter-party risk. That said, it's a pretty unusual scenario.

But we've discussed similar things here - what about food shortages? In that case, I'd rather have the food, or both, than just gold. My goal is to be self-sufficient to the greatest practical degree, and that vision incorporates many mechanisms.

While I will trade/speculate with paper some, the stash is the stash, I still feel if you can't drop it on your toe and go ouch (and defend it from would-be confiscators), it ain't yours. That's also true of the food stash, the land, the...you name it. Looks like the Germans woke up a little late in the game here. Hardly news, they also bought a lot of CDOs...
 

DCFusor

Yellow Jacket
Messages
1,669
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Floyd, Virginia
Interesting head-fake over at ZH, which proves my point above (yeah, I'm not actually into replying to myself) but it's worth noting.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-08/proof-golds-latest-slam-was-not-fat-goldfinger


So, someone who owns some bots (anyone with the dough) is smashing the paper price of gold.
This someone (or someones, but this time it seems like just one) has an obviously unlimited checkbook/collateral, and zero fiducial responsibility to get a good execution on anything, in fact, this particular episode tripped the trade breakers. They go on about the 'bots and all.
I find it more interesting who the owners of those bots are, or who controls them at any rate via whatever mechanism and intermediary. No one does this unless they want to lose money - the only other possible explanation, assuming any rationality whatever on the player's part, is that they are making money elsewhere - either off another trade that goes the other way (but we don't see that market smashed or zoom and breakers trip), or someone simply wants a lower price on gold, since the price of physical is for now, linked to the paper price.

The list of even-possible candidates is quite short. There aren't that many who can do this at all. Need I name them? I found the misdirection interesting, as if computers programmed themselves (it's as if guns shot people, or knives jumped off the table and cut you - it's more interesting who was holding it at the time than the fact that either is dangerous).
 

rblong2us

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
156
Points
178
Location
off world
I thought they were smashing the price at appropriate moments in order to create a buying opportunity, then recovering their costs plus a profit when they re-sell before the next smash .........

or is that just too simple ?
 

DCFusor

Yellow Jacket
Messages
1,669
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Floyd, Virginia
I guess that could happen - but it's darn dangerous for whoever is doing it, if they are. If they scare all the retail out of gold, who's going to ramp it back up?
 

rblong2us

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
156
Points
178
Location
off world
so POG stays down till everyone who requests their gold back gets their gold back ............

Perhaps they are just sending a message to those who would repatriate ?
 

bushi

Ground Beetle
Messages
970
Reaction score
4
Points
143
Obama to Merkel: "If you like your gold - you can keep your gold"... oops, sorry, couldn't stop myself :)

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
 

ancona

Praying Mantis
Messages
3,359
Reaction score
20
Points
0
Location
Waaay south
Just wait for the landslide of repatriation requests that is sure to come. The Fed has traded, hypothecated, derivitized, sold or otherwise used all their gold and has no realistic way to return it inside of any meaningful time-frame. They must therefore, default.
 

mmerlinn

Ground Beetle
Messages
625
Reaction score
4
Points
136
Location
Here, There, and Everywhere
Just wait for the landslide of repatriation requests that is sure to come. The Fed has traded, hypothecated, derivitized, sold or otherwise used all their gold and has no realistic way to return it inside of any meaningful time-frame. They must therefore, default.

In plain words, the Fed is a THIEF! Since the Fed is a PRIVATE entity masquerading as a government entity they have STOLEN gold belonging to US. If you or I did that, they would lock us up and throw away the key.
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
...
What I just found out, and what presumably few people in the English speaking world knew, was that the Bundesbank had made an earlier repatriation request in the fall of 2012, to ship home 150 tons from the US in three years (ending in 2015). So after January 2013 two repatriation schedules co-existed. They were not mutually exclusive – so most Germany expected to see back was 150 tons from the US by 2015 – and ultimately 674 tons by end-2020 from both the US and France.

This was the plan.. But in 2013 only 37 (remelted) tons of gold reached German grounds of which 5 tons from the US. Needless to say, this lifted a few eyebrows. The Bundesbank has now withdrawn the original schedule to repatriate 150 tons from the US before 2015, but continues plan B, to repatriate 674 tons from NY and Paris by end-2020.
...

http://www.ingoldwetrust.ch/bundesbank-changes-gold-repatriation-schedule
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
... the Fed’s custodial gold holdings have reduced by 125 tonnes from January to November 2015. I am fairly confident that all of these are German repatriations as there hasn’t been any announcements of other central banks withdrawing metal from the Federal Reserve’s vaults in New York. ...

http://research.perthmint.com.au/2016/01/15/german-gold-repatriation-update/

I'm less confident in his assumption. Central banks generally don't like talking about what they are doing with their gold.
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
...
The Bundesbank today announced its gold repatriation tonnages for 2015: 210 tons, with 99.5 having been returned from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and 110 from the Banque de France in Paris. This is 6 percent of all German gold reserves and 10 percent of the German gold reserves held abroad:

http://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/EN/Pressemitteilungen/BBK/2016/2016_01_27_relocation_of_gold.html
...
At least one more central bank besides the Bundesbank must have repatriated some gold from the New York Fed in 2015, as the New York Fed reports a decline in its custodial gold holdings of another 25.5 tonnes.
...

http://gata.org/node/16130
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
Germany's central bank is bringing home gold reserves stored in places like New York and Paris faster than planned, it said on Thursday, as confidence in the euro ebbs even in the heart of the currency bloc after a decade of a sluggish economy.

Stashed away at the height of the Cold War in safe havens well out of Moscow's reach, the 3,378-tonne, 120 billion-euro (102 billion-pound) gold stockpile has become a symbol of Germany's economic ascent and a guardian of its stability.

But with Europe stumbling from crisis to crisis, the German public has grown uneasy about keeping the gold abroad. Some even argue the world's second biggest bullion reserve may be needed to back a new deutschmark, should the euro zone break up.

Having already moved 583 tonnes of gold out of New York and Paris, the Bundesbank plans to have half its gold in Frankfurt by the end of 2017, years ahead of its 2020 schedule, with the rest split between the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and the Bank of England.
...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bundesbank-gold-idUKKBN15O192
 

rblong2us

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
156
Points
178
Location
off world
The Bundesbank will repatriate 674 metric tons of gold from vaults in Paris and New York by 2020 to restore public confidence in the safety of Germany’s reserves.

The phased relocation of the gold, currently worth about 27 billion euros ($36 billion), will begin this year and result in half of Germany’s reserves being stored in Frankfurt by the end of the decade, the Bundesbank said in a statement today. It will bring home all 374 tons of its gold held at the Banque de France and a further 300 tons from the New York Federal Reserve, it said. Holdings at the Bank of England will remain unchanged.

This thread was started in January 2013
So its taken 4 years to get 300 tonnes shipped from New York and 370 tonnes
from Paris.
In logistical terms these are not large amounts.
They could have shipped an olympic sized swimming pool plus contents in 4 years

Yet someone was saying they accelerated the process .........


It does seem to suggest that theres not a lot of gold available for shipping and that possibly new production and reprocessed scrap have been major contributors?
Did I also read a while ago that some older, less refined bars were showing up as part of the shipments ?

So if Germany decides to go back to the D Mark it seems sensible that they now have their gold out of Paris but how do they feel about gold in London now that the UK has shown signs of disloyalty to the EU project ?
Possibly no bad thing as the UK might be seen to be less likely to need to protect itself from the inevitable disruption ?
And better able to defend itself from hostile actions of other Euro nations ?

Interesting times indeed.
 

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Messages
8,657
Reaction score
1,680
Points
268
Location
Texas
Sputnik News said:
...
Katasonov, a professor at the International Finance Department at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, suggested that the United States disposed of Germany's gold bars at its own discretion.

"There are a lot of signs that the gold was not physically present in the New York vaults when Germany called it back. Of course, the U.S. began to return it to Germany but there is one interesting detail. When you leave your suitcase in the luggage storage, you expect to get back the same suitcase. But Germany took the wrong 'suitcase,'" Katasonov told Radio Sputnik.

According to the economist, the gold bars that Bundesbank repatriated have different labels. He suggested that the U.S. might have replaced the German bullion with different gold bars bought from the market.

Katasonov explained that the U.S. managed to return the yellow metal thanks to favorable conditions in the precious metal market.

"I think there was a favorable environment in the market and the Americans managed to quickly buy the gold and give it back to Germany. They were not ready for this, but finally managed this replacement," he concluded.

http://gata.org/node/17172

No idea what Katasonov's source is for his claim about the labels on the bars.
 

rblong2us

Yellow Jacket
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
156
Points
178
Location
off world
....reported almost exclusively by GATA that Germany's gold reserves vaulted with the United States were never more than gold credits until the Bundesbank sought to repatriate the gold in recent years.

And yet no one sees a problem .............

You would have thought that Germany ( and anyone else with their physical stored in US vaults ) would be looking to repatriate 100% and as quickly as world markets could deliver.
Obviously without any effect on price .......
 

drAGonfly47

Predaceous Stink Bug
Messages
110
Reaction score
0
Points
0
http://gata.org/node/17172

No idea what Katasonov's source is for his claim about the labels on the bars.


Regardless of source, he states my suspicion held since 2013, when gold was much higher in USD.
The complete profile of this requested transaction screams PONZI !
World wide ponzi due to the probable fact, Asia possesses, and oligarchs, the majority of physical gold.
Upon request of physical return, the dance begins, and both parties have pistols and cowboy hats on.
Request to much, you get none, and collapse ponzi.
Request to late, get zero, because the ponzi collapsed.
Do not dare to mention D Mark backing, as suicide double shot to the skull ensues.
B-Bank is being chess game strategic, with Yoda patience.
I am uncertain as to where they are achieving leverage, to ensure process.
Most countries who remotely elude, as Germany is, to world's 3rd greatest ponzi's weakness.
Well, you know.

Got GOLD ?
 
Top Bottom