(Caution) Opinions of a Hypocritical Ignorant Human

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searcher said:
Capt. Kyle talks about opinions, respecting other peeps opinions and a little more.
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Nothing wrong with that.
....but there is also nothing wrong with trying to engage those with different opinions.

This nation is so divided, that the only way I see to maintain the nation going forwatd, is for all sides to be willing to engage and be willing to accept having what might become a difficult conversation(s).

The alternative is to allow the divide(s) to continue to widen. Possibly to the breaking point.

However, the problem I typically encounter when attempting to get the other side to open up as to why they feel the way they do about particular issues, they either refuse to do so, or get mad and then storm off, or do like the guy in vid did when he attempted to articulate why he doesn't like Trump. (Just using that as an example) He couldn't. The most reason I heard was that he didn't like his book. Which is fine, but I'd have rather heard what he thought he did as potus that was so terrible.
...and imho, he doesn't have to "like" him, but he should have well reasoned things he can point to, as to why he doesn't.



Simply put, it seems no one on the other side really has any interest in debating the issues. The only unity they are looking for, is for others to join them. They seem to have no desire to be exposed to anything that might sway their opinion.
....and it's usually an opinion that they can't even articulate very well.
 
Joe King said:
....but there is also nothing wrong with trying to engage those with different opinions.
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However, the problem I typically encounter ...
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Engaging is easy. But it won't be productive unless all parties have the inclination to engage with intellectual honesty. If folks don't listen, acknowledge and consider what other folks are saying, it's not a discussion. It's just ...

 
pmbug said:
Engaging is easy. But it won't be productive unless all parties have the inclination to engage with intellectual honesty. If folks don't listen, acknowledge and consider what other folks are saying, it's not a discussion. It's just ...
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That perfectly describes the current day dems/leftists/msm types that only want to parrot whatever the currant official gov narrative is on any particular subject.

Edited to add: Trump is a good example. I ask quite often what he did as potus that was so terrible that he must now be destroyed for. We had 1.4% inflation, 3.7% unemployment, energy independence, and illegal immigration under control. < those are facts the left is not intellectually honest enough to even acknowledge. All we hear is "orange man bad!" And how awful mean tweets are. Now we have a dementia patient as potus, and they refuse to even acknowledge any problems at all.
 
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Not making any accusations here. Just pointing out a fact.

It's one thing to engage with someone interested in a two-way conversation where both people are sharing their ideas / opinions. It's another thing entirely to try to have a dialog with someone who wants to do a live dissection of every sentence you post simply to try to prove you wrong or to to kinda tongue tie you for their own self amusement.

No one in their right mind wants to deal with that.

Like I said..........not accusing anyone of anything.
 
Joe King said:
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Edited to add: Trump is a good example. I ask quite often what he did as potus that was so terrible ...
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Yeah, anyone that's been reading the forum for a while knows that...

Joe King said:
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I'm still waiting for anyone to explain what he did as potus that was so terrible ...
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Joe King said:
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I'm still waiting on his detractors to explain what Trump actually did as potus that was so terrible ...
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Joe King said:
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I'm still waiting on you or any of the deranged TDSers to explain what exactly he did as potus that was so terrible ...
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Joe King said:
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Still waiting to hear what he did as potus that was so terrible for the nation. ...
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Joe King said:
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... I am still waiting to hear exactly what he did as potus that was so terrible ...
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Joe King said:
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Still waiting for anyone to explain what he did as potus that was so terrible ...
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I tried at one point to offer you some of the perspective that you so often claimed to be interested in:


Your response indicated to me that you really weren't interested in having an intellectually honest discussion on the subject. You refuse to acknowledge any POV but your own. Even now, in this thread, you don't acknowledge that you have had any responses to your inquiries.

If you just want to verbally spar with folks, you shouldn't be surprised if folks lose interest in engaging with you. If you want to take that as a concession and take victory laps, have at it, but that isn't honest.
 
searcher said:
It's one thing to engage with someone interested in a two-way conversation where both people are sharing their ideas / opinions
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It's not just about sharing, but rather about challenging the others ideas and opinions in order to expose the justifications and reasons for those ideas and opinions.

Using Trump as an example, countless times I've heard people express that they just don't like him and are glad he is no longer potus, but refuse to get into specifics on the issue.
....and do so while ignoring the obvious good that his policies did for the nation.

Imho, to think like that makes no sense and is along the lines of cutting off ones nose to spite their face.
It's as though mean tweets are a bigger issue than low unemployment, inflation and gas prices.
 
pmbug said:
Yeah, anyone that's been reading the forum for a while knows that...
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Yet no one can give an answer. It's why I keep asking.

pmbug said:
Your response indicated to me that you really weren't interested in having an intellectually honest discussion on the subject.
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My response was entirely factual, but was ignored.


pmbug said:
You refuse to acknowledge any POV but your own.
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Only when it is the correct POV.


pmbug said:
Even now, in this thread, you don't acknowledge that you have had any responses to your inquiries.
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The responses ignore the facts.

Here is my response that was then ignored. What exactly is in my response that is intellectually dishonest?

Joe King said:
What I liked was that the nation was doing great with his policies as potus. Unemployment down, inflation down, mfg starting to come back, number one oil producer, etc etc.
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Those are all facts and are things that are good for our nation.



Joe King said:
What was there not to like?
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That America was doing good? The ones in charge for the past two years act as though they hate the idea of that.




The only problem was this.
Joe King said:
the only thing not to like was the idiots rabid reaction him having weon the election. They started rioting on the day he was sworn into office. Weren't even willing to see what he was gonna do
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Joe.................

I'm 70 years old and have lived through a few different presidents. None of which came come close to Trump for the way he acts. According to him he's:

-smarter than anyone on the planet
-knows more about medicine than learned doctors who save lives every day
-know more about fighting wars than any general who has spent their life keeping our country free and keeping our enemies at bay
-knows more about the constitution than anyone alive
-the smartest businessman alive

I could go on and on.

We have never had a president who said the only way he could lose an election was if the election was rigged over one-year before the election took place. Never had a president who shit all over our allies. Never had a president who called people derogatory names and talked trash about his opponent's wives. Never had a prez who literally tried to overthrow the government and install himself as a dictator. Never had a prez who lied through his teeth about everything under the sun. Never had a prez like him in any way shape or form.

You may see the man differently than others do, but you have to realize that we all have opinions. I try to base mine on reality. Not look at someone as great when everything I've seen the guy do tells me otherwise.

And arguing for the sake of arguing is kinda nuts. lol
 
pmbug said:
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Allow me to clarify. The correct POV, when it comes to US politics is one that is in line with the intent of the Founders. What we have today, and what most of the politicians we've had for longer than either of us has been alive, is far removed from the Original intent.

As a Ron Paul voter*, I'd think you would pretty much see it the same as he does. He thinks that at least half of what the gov does is unConstitutional.

* I'm pretty sure I've read in your posts that he rep'd your District and that you voted for him. If I am mistaken, apologies.
 
pmbug said:
Your response indicated to me that you really weren't interested in having an intellectually honest discussion on the subject.
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Joe King said:
My response was entirely factual, but was ignored.
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I answered each of your points here. https://www.pmbug.com/threads/elections.4080/post-49140

Inflation, unemployment and economic data I stated was from FRED economic data, so it is factual.


The main one that should be the biggest issue was this.
pmbug said:
attempting to assert unconstitutional powers from time to time,
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I asked, such as?, but got no response.

Yet half of everything the gov has been doing for Decades is unConstitutional, and it can be proven. In fact, the gov admits it, and Ron Paul has been pointing it out for Decades now.
...yet we're supposed to be mad at Trump for he perceived slights pointed out by his partisan opponent's?



searcher said:
Joe.................
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Search..... how ya doin' today?


searcher said:
I'm 70 years old and have lived through a few different presidents. None of which came come close to Trump for the way he acts.
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I've lived through through several too. Congrats for making it that long! May you have many more years.


searcher said:
-smarter than anyone on the planet
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That's his opinion, and he is entitled to that, yes?

searcher said:
-knows more about medicine than learned doctors who save lives every day
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He never said he knows more than doctors. Can you provide a quote of him actually saying that?

What I think the issue is, is that he was trying to suggest stuff that might help fight the virus when the ptb had already decided that the vax was going to be the only response. They had to attack Trump for saying anything else. After all, there were billion$ to be made for pfizer and moderna. That's why they were so against even the suggestion that anything else might help. Because if anything were shown to help, the emergency use authorization would not have been approved and pfizer and moderna would lost a lot of money.

Their buddies at the fda, cdc and nih weren't about to let that happen.


searcher said:
-know more about fighting wars than any general who has spent their life keeping our country free and keeping our enemies at bay
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Do you realize that he is the only potus we've had in at least 40 years that hasn't gotten us into a new shooting episode with any other nations? Ie: beyond any that previous potus' had already gotten us into.

How is that not keeping our enemies at bay? If we do not have to shoot at 'em, maybe it was because his diplomacy was working?

Quick question. For at least 3 years we were assured by the dems like Nadler, Schiff and others that there was lots of evidence of Putin/Trump collusion and that Trump was Putin's puppet. So if Trump was Putin's puppet, why did he wait until Sleepy Joe was in office to attack Ukraine? It doesn't make any sense for him to have waited when he already had "his" guy in the Whitehouse.


searcher said:
-knows more about the constitution than anyone alive
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Again, that's his opinion. To know for sure, we'd have to give him a test on it.


searcher said:
-the smartest businessman alive
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Again, his opinion.
...but he has in fact been fairly successful. he's made more $ than most could in a hundred lifetimes.


searcher said:
I could go on and on.
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Please, by all means! You're entitled to.


searcher said:
We have never had a president who said the only way he could lose an election was if the election was rigged over one-year before the election took place.
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Has any potus with a good economy ever lost re-election? By all measure, the economy was going gangbusters in '19. I said then that the only way he could lose was if the economy crashed and he was painted as the having caused it, and that's exactly what the dems and their partners in the msm did.


searcher said:
Never had a president who shit all over our allies.
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He tried to get them to live up to their obligations and to quit taking a free ride at our expense.

He also tried warning Europe of becoming too dependent on Russia. Their response? They laughed at him. Are they still laughing now?


searcher said:
Never had a president who called people derogatory names and talked trash about his opponent's wives.
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If he did, it only after he and his family were attacked and called names too. If it's good for the goose, it's good the gander, right?

searcher said:
Never had a prez who literally tried to overthrow the government and install himself as a dictator.
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He told people to "peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard". He told people to go home too, but twitter deleted it and the msm tried to deny he even said it.

searcher said:
Never had a prez who lied through his teeth about everything under the sun.
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Every potus in our lifetimes have lied about stuff. A couple we all remember were, I did not sleep with that woman and I did not sell weapons to Iran nor run drugs from Nicaragua. There have been plenty of others.


searcher said:
Never had a prez like him in any way shape or form.
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Yea, every other potus in at least the past 50 years has been a Globalist. Trump wasn't.

searcher said:
You may see the man differently than others do, but you have to realize that we all have opinions.
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Yes we do, but some peoples opinions on him have been manipulated to the negative by the msm and entrenched gov actors.


searcher said:
I try to base mine on reality.
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What about the reality of a great economy due to his policies? He was trying to reverse the push for Globalism. Mfg was even starting to come back. Biden killed that trend though.


searcher said:
Not look at someone as great when everything I've seen the guy do tells me otherwise.
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"Everything" would include his policies, and if his policies led to the nation doing better, how is that not something good? No one needs like him personally, but if the nation is doing good due to his policies, why can't he be judged as potus based on that alone?
 
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