LME changing rules for warehouse

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I thought we had a previous discussion here about the warehousing (delivery) bottleneck occurring (especially with aluminum), but I can't seem to find it right now. Anyway, the news:
More: http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/cont...g-finance-investment-old?oid=162677&sn=Detail
 
I think the rules are patently absurd on their face. If I purchase a thousand tons of aluminum, and i provide the trucks to pick up my metals, what the hell is keeping me from doing that? I'll tell you what; JP Morgan et. al., that's what. JPM owns huge stocks of metals that they have bought up from producers so they can hold it off of the market to control the price. It's a nice gig if you can get it, since they pay a significantly lower price to producers for ingots of finished metal than you or I can pay, then hold on to it and dribble it on the market at inflated prices. What I read is that they make as much as 50% mark-up as a result of these "bottle-necks" that are artificially created.

The release limits were initially put in to place to control metals and keep them from flooding the market all at once, depressing prices, but the reverse is happening now.
 

http://www.kitco.com/news/2013-07-1...anges-Likely-to-Affect-Physical-Premiums.html
 

More: http://www.gata.org/node/12789

Well, I guess that explains the Chinese interest in the LME.
 

More: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/07/lme-warehouses-idUSL5N0IS27D20131107
 

More: http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/cont...g-finance-investment-old?oid=234866&sn=Detail
 
I don't see why producers of metal products don't simply take delivery of raw aluminum ingot directly from the smelters. It would seem that folks like Budweiser and Coke should have quite enough leverage [money] to make that happen. In fact, the smelter would no longer be beholden to pay a vig to the middle.

P.S. I apologize for trying to suggest something sensible. [sarc]
 
LME stocks of aluminum are horrendously high and have been for six years. Before 2008, normal LME aluminum stocks hovered around 1mm tons. For the last six years, LME aluminum stocks have fluctuated around 4.5mm to 5mm tons.

The net effect of the logjam in the LME is that producers have no incentive to cut production, thereby keeping stocks high and aluminum prices low.

For over 20 years before 2008 iron and aluminum prices hovered around a 20:1 ratio. Since 2008 and the run up of LME aluminum stocks, the ratio has typically been around 5:1.

That has been a total disaster for me. For decades I used to pay double iron prices for transmissions, dismantle them, then sell the scrap for triple what I paid. Today, if I pay double iron prices, the separated scrap sells for 18% LESS than what I paid. If I try to match shredder prices (TRIPLE iron price), I would be selling the scrap for 44% LESS than what I paid. So, today, it is physically impossible to buy scrap transmissions from wrecking yards and turn a profit.

Before the ratio went wacko, the local car shredders would only pay double iron price for transmissions delivered to the shredders, or just iron price if they put a drop box in the wrecking yards. The shredders were not viable competitors to me at all. Today with the wacky ratio, the shredders are paying TRIPLE iron price in the wrecking yards and more when delivered. Imagine how much money I would lose if I tried to compete with them now.

Needless to say, the LME logjam has destroyed most transmission scrappers. The only ones who have survived, like me, have been those who rat-holed tons of cheap common parts while everyone else was dumping their parts for the high scrap prices. Today, those cheap parts are ridiculously expensive because they are now extremely rare. For example, common parts that I sold for $5 each in 2007 now bring $25 to $200 each because they are so rare today.

For decades I used to process 150 to 200 transmissions per week. Today, if I am lucky, I will process MAYBE 10 per week. Since I must pay extreme prices today, I am very selective in what I will buy because I know that unless I can sell enough parts to triple my money, I am just wasting my time. So, today, I play the guessing game in trying to guess what will sell in a reasonable time whereas in the past I was guaranteed a profit on every transmission even if I never sold a part.

For me this reality will never change. I simply won't live long enough to see normal ratios again. And until the logjam at the LME is broken (yes, a severe crash in aluminum prices), the aluminum producers will not cut back production.

The nightmare of low prices is probably what prompted Rusal to head to court. Now that the court has ruled, there is no hope for a return to reasonable aluminum prices vis-a-vis iron, copper, lead, and other metals.

In general all base metals, EXCEPT aluminum, have gone up 400% to 500% since January 1998. Aluminum has stayed at exactly the same nominal price as it was in January 1998. Factoring in inflation, aluminum has LOST VALUE, while the other metals have galloped upwards faster than inflation.
 
So you are a scrapper/salvage yard owner? That is pretty close to what we do in the industrial demolition field. It can be a lot of fun.
 
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So you ar43e a scrapper/salvage yard owner?

Yes, and no. I don't touch vehicles - too much red tape and competition. I do ONLY transmissions and transfer cases, nothing else. Today I could not be called a scrapper because my main business is selling parts with scrap as a MINOR side issue. Used to be that scrap was 90% of my income, but today I doubt that it is 5%. And I never expect to see that change.

Worst part is that historically if I needed money, I would head to the nearest wrecking yard, buy a load of transmissions, and flip the scrap in a day or so at a profit. Today if I need money, I am screwed as there is no quick way to generate cash without having a fire sale. And fire sales are ALWAYS money losers. Invariably whatever was sold at the fire sale is something that would have sold the next day at 10 times the fire sale price. Been there, done that more times than I want to count.

One time back in the early-80s I needed a truck payment ($525, a LOT of money then) that same day and I only had about $200 total to my name. I went looking for transmissions, but found a box of aluminum heads instead. Paid for them, loaded them, drove 30 miles, flipped them for $1200, came back to town, and took my payment to the truck dealer. Then took the rest of the money and spent it on transmissions which I flipped as scrap three days later for about $1800. With the wacky ratio, that is simply not possible today.

Yup, can be fun, and has been fun for decades, but not much fun any more. Being forced to wait for someone to buy my products keeps me constantly scrambling to keep ahead of the bills. I liked it much better when I could take the bull by the horns and not need to wait for someone to part with their cash.

In other words, I liked it much better when my customers (scrap yards) were ALWAYS willing to part with their money rather than waiting for customers (general public) to need something I have badly enough for them to WANT to part with their money. Guaranteed cash flow versus spotty cash flow.
 
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Zero Hedge said:
and that it has asked its creditors to delay repayment on a maturity from its $10 billion debt pile due next month.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-28/first-russian-casuality-worlds-largest-aluminum-company-rusal-warns-it-may-default


This is why I believe that a business is not viable UNLESS it can SELF-finance itself. If the business is run so poorly that it can't pay its bills without outside help, how in hell will it be able to pay its bills if outsiders get involved?

Economy Auto Wrecking said:
Credit is a DISEASE - You won't catch it here!
 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/26/us-aluminum-lawsuits-idUSKBN0GQ1LM20140826
 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...ysterious-london-buyer-has-cornered-90-market
 
That's just ridiculous. Is the demand for copper so bad that one entity can buy up 90% of the warehoused supply? Boggles the mind.
 
its within the 'rules' apparently

so when will an entity do it for some of the more interesting metals ?
 
When I read about things like this, and hear about JPM and their aluminum shenanigans, I am reminded of just how insignificant we have become in the eyes of The Brotherhood of Darkness. Each time a new and ever more ridiculous "fee" is added to my bank statement or phone bill, I am reminded that I am but a mere prole that exists solely to provide Da Boyz with more billions.

This is proof positive [as if there weren't already enough] that manipulation is not just endemic, it is out in the open, in your face and we don't care about it because you can't do anything about it. Governments around the world are currently held hostage by TBTF banksters and they know it. Any threat of sanctions or repercussions are very likely met with threats to shut the whole world down and watch it burn.
 
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