PM Barter

Just curious on how you guys approach this...

I have rarely bartered for PMs. But, once I cut down a tree for an old metal detecting / coin collecting friend of mine (actually father of a friend) and he paid me in good quality "junk" silver. I didn't ask for anything, but he insisted... knowing that I am a metal-detecting-coin-collecting-junk-silver-bullion guy, myself.

Anyhow, as far as people that you don't know... how do you approach the "barter for PM" thing. I am sometimes suspicious in that I don't want people to know that I collect PM.

For instance... once I went to one of my LCS and he told me a story about a seller (where he mentioned key identifiers... a la, I could probably figure out who the person was) that had two hundred gold eagles to sell... that were buried in his backyard.

Now, if I was not an upstanding person... I probably could have figured out who this person was and taken advantage of the situation.

Anyhow... how do you barter... if you do... and how can you be sure to keep it anon?

Just some thoughts for discussion...

Thanks gentlemen...

ADK

Ah, yes, that myth that there is no counterparty risk just keeps getting shown to be spurious more and more as new situations arise, eh? EVERY transaction has a counterparty. For now, I might trade with others of my sort, in a situation where we have a lot of reasons to know we can trust one another. In bad times, or with a stranger, it's all a question.

Let say we are stuck in the middle of a desert, and I have just enough water for one of us to make it, and you have a stack. Would I trade? No, your stack is worth zero, your counterparty risk in that situation (barring successful use of force) is total. While not a really realistic situation (we all hope!), that's one extreme and there's a continua of situations in which the value of your stack isn't going to be set by the current paper spot price, to say the least.

It's something that deserves some thought given a particular situation - even in a case where theft isn't an issue. Of course, some of the same issues arise with cash fiat too, even when people agree on the value.

Check out these guys (they are building some sort of network for merchants who accept PMs):

http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f8/open-currency-standard-1111/

ADK said:

Just curious on how you guys approach this...

I have rarely bartered for PMs. But, once I cut down a tree for an old metal detecting / coin collecting friend of mine (actually father of a friend) and he paid me in good quality "junk" silver. I didn't ask for anything, but he insisted... knowing that I am a metal-detecting-coin-collecting-junk-silver-bullion guy, myself.

Anyhow, as far as people that you don't know... how do you approach the "barter for PM" thing. I am sometimes suspicious in that I don't want people to know that I collect PM.

For instance... once I went to one of my LCS and he told me a story about a seller (where he mentioned key identifiers... a la, I could probably figure out who the person was) that had two hundred gold eagles to sell... that were buried in his backyard.

Now, if I was not an upstanding person... I probably could have figured out who this person was and taken advantage of the situation.

Anyhow... how do you barter... if you do... and how can you be sure to keep it anon?

Just some thoughts for discussion...

Thanks gentlemen...

ADK

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1) Do not tell (or lie to) people where you keep anything of value.

2) I have run across places/people that will accept gold/silver as payment. If you use this system, I see no advantage to provide your address or any other information in such transactions.

Hmmmm... traded seventeen silver dimes for a shotgun once....

DCFusor said:

Let say we are stuck in the middle of a desert, and I have just enough water for one of us to make it, and you have a stack. Would I trade? No, your stack is worth zero

Click to expand...

I would take the stack and drink my piss.

1. If you know and can trust your local PM shop, fine, deal with them.
2. If you don't know them (ergo: you should not assume that you can trust them), don't use a local shop - while inconvenient, it is much safer, to go to the next town/big city to do your deals there.

Remember, there is always inverse relationship between convenience and security. Short, dumb & alwayse the same passwords are more convenient than one-off, complex ones - and that can be extrapolated to anything else, also in physical world.

Depends on what you are bartering for. you can always just offer it as payment for something just to see what they say. I would love to be paid in silver or coins

man, I'd love for someone to offer to pay me in silver. (or gold).

Jay said:

Hmmmm... traded seventeen silver dimes for a shotgun once....

Click to expand...

200 FRN's and 15 ASE's for a sweet .308 (weaver scope), three boxes of ammo and (oddly enough) one box of .32

I have some small stuff for barter if needed, along with some junk silver. I fail to see any reason to give someone your name if you're bartering with PMs. There's no reason they would need to know.

BTW. I keep my collecting a secret from my own family because I think my lying, deadbeat, sister would burglarize my home if she knew about my stack.

Cybrsk8r said:

I have some small stuff for barter if needed, along with some junk silver. I fail to see any reason to give someone your name if you're bartering with PMs. There's no reason they would need to know.

BTW. I keep my collecting a secret from my own family because I think my lying, deadbeat, sister would burglarize my home if she knew about my stack.

Click to expand...

Good OPSEC, right there.



ADK

Cybrsk8r said:

I have some small stuff for barter if needed, along with some junk silver. I fail to see any reason to give someone your name if you're bartering with PMs. There's no reason they would need to know.

BTW. I keep my collecting a secret from my own family because I think my lying, deadbeat, sister would burglarize my home if she knew about my stack.

Click to expand...

I think I married her, once back in the civil war...

Jay said:

200 FRN's and 15 ASE's for a sweet .308 (weaver scope), three boxes of ammo and (oddly enough) one box of .32

Click to expand...

ADK, poor OPSEC, ^ , but I live in a small town full of "gun nuts" and everyone already knows I buy silver.

17 dimes for a shotgun? Wow. I'm in a large city, am very fortunate to (over time) have established a super-good relationship with a LCS. My guess is coin-trade shows would be the place to (carefully) find honest barter-types.

I've made zero purchases on the web..heck, the LCS is cheaper/over spot then JM/Chicago. In the stack-beginning, before being a participant...I (I'm sure everyone here understands) tried to inform close friends about the "situation"- was tin-foiled and lost those friendships. First LCS I went to was "the one". As far as I know, not many LCS that have been around pre-Hunt bros debacle. I do know from the 'vine, a lot of legitimate barter-goings on happened in the bigger western states and sparsely pop. Areas o' Canada.

How about those German Au "credit card" sized bartering "things"?...There scored for easy "breaking off"/transaction. Neat idea IMO.

Was thinking about looking into the cost/feasibility of an Ag version for the states. Junk Ag of course already exists and draws zero attention. Problem is insane premiums on junk now! Problems with recognition...would be a problem. Did a bit of maths (sloppy)..,taking a .9999 RCM 100oz and re-melting into a similar CC sized "barter tool"...would be EZ regarding assay. The notion I realize seems crazy for those who have lots of junk, especially when procured pre-2012/11.

Because 99% of US ppl still find PMs "a joke"+the rule of idiots (buy high/follow the MSM)...by the time some waking up happens, Kitco/SLV/Comex future price setting will be moot. Average person (when support lvls are clad @ 40$ spot) paying 50$ish for 1 ASE (just a guess), junk will be long gone. I'm not into enterprise; ie; making big profits...am into doing whatever possible to make things as stable as can be. I don't think years and years of mad-max like scenarios will be reality. However, I expect massive chaos when the fiat=exposed, unfortunately /w spilt blood. After this, it must be a combo barter for skills/hard money Econ. Do not see it in the cards, the populace accepting a WW uni-currency after Keynes "Worst (un) Grand Experiment -Failure". NTR has a hundreds of melting foundries all over the US. Just a thought.

I talk about this subject to zero people...am glad I found this forum and would love to hear any thoughts, criticisms etc. apropos to bartering...

-Ty

Paid my osteopath $125 in rounds for appointment. Known him since head-on collision in '97, mine. He now has purchased a stack of 50/50 Ag/Au in $'s. He is in the age group which should not risk Ag only.

Offered my dentist the payment $1200 in Ag rounds, he's a paper stock junkie. Known him since I was 6, and he partied with my parents in the 70's.

Best for me was receiving 92 + -(can not remember exact) silver rounds, for part of balance due, remaining balance cash. I did give owner a 25% discount for the silver portion of the bill. Now @ $30, it sits with a 106% gain...

... in a box
... has some friends
... with a lock
... deeply placed
... while scuba diving.

I moved and have not told even my family, kept P.O. box, no license address change, and the bills are all in her name.

We are close to increased risk due to past information sharing.