The one Firearm you would take with you...

If you had to "bug out" FAST, and only had time to grab one firearm, what would be the one firearm you would take with you?

For me it would have to be my Glock MOD.23
Light, sturdy, simple and will always work...

AR with 1x4 scope,quick detatch mount,back up iron sights,plenty of extra loaded magazines in drag bag.

12 gauge shotgun

If I had to really leave that fast, with absolutely zero time to get anything else, I would already be carrying my Sig 9mm Parabellum. So, given that I am always carrying that, I will stretch the rules and posit that since I still have time to grab and go, I would snatch up my AR-15 which already has 6 loaded 30 rnd. mags in the gun rug pockets, two of which are filled with TAP. If I have to forfeit that time back because I am already carrying, I will have to make do with the 9mm and one extra mag.

The ray gun from Call of Duty zombies.

dali lambone said:

The ray gun from Call of Duty zombies.

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Oh my Gawd, yes.

Arkad, where are you man? I am interested to know what you think about my proposition. If I already carry a weapon and extra mag, do I still get to grab-and-go? Is it somehow an unfair "advantage"? After all, if the time is available to grab a gun, yet I already have one, it simply makes sense that I would grab a battle rifle [carbine W/16" barrel actually] and go. I already have a fat BOB in the truckster. Does the family get to grab and go as well? Can one grab a rifle and the other load a crate of ammo instead of grabbing a weapon? If I have my carry piece and so does the wife, my kid could grab a crate or two of 5,56 and the wive could grab a case of 9mm, while I would grab the carbine. We would then be pretty well situated to repel zombies. There are of course, endless permutations of the situation posed, but if it is simply an exercise using time as the only denominator, that is how I would use it.

Of course, the ray gun is my first choice, but I don't have that kind of scratch, so I have to use conventional.....I'm just saying.

;-)

PMBug said:

12 gauge shotgun

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Concur...

Load out both slug and 00...versatility...max displacement.

vox said:

Concur...

Load out both slug and 00...versatility...max displacement.

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If we're talking about repelling zombies and the Golden Horde, there used to be a company called Blammo Ammo that sold some CRAZY shit for 12 gauge shells. They had some evil shit called 'fleschettes, which are long narrow triangles with sharpened edges, I think about thirty of them went in the shell. When fired in to thick cover like bushes and such, they would flush the fuckers out in one quick hurry. They had a thing with two lead balls and a thirty inch piece of wire between them. Think bolo, but moving at near the speed of sound. Nasty! Another one [quite over hyped, but with it's uses] called Dragon's Breath, which was titanium powder which is ignited as it travels down the bore with burning magnesium powder, again, approaching the speed of sound, so that it exits the barrel, travels about 2 - 300 feet in a huge fire-trail of thousand degree burning metal vapor.

Good times!!

Yeah, there's a lot of "it depends" here.

If it's really just start running now and grab what you can as you leave (no breaking stride), I'd be happy with either of my (rolling armory) vehicles, which I have to go past to get out the door anyway. Maybe I'd add a handgun, whatever the "ready gun" on the shelf by the door is at the time, or the rifle hanging over it. (Cars have high cap pistols and ammo in .45 and .38 already). If I get to take the car/truck, rather than have to run straight back into the woods, I'm golden already.

If I had just a few more seconds, the choice is more difficult, but probably one of my long range bench-rest (sniper) rifles. Handguns are what you use to fight your way to the rifle, right?

Where I live, a shotgun is pretty useless (other than fun with clays and crows) - you're not going to get an in-range shot that doesn't expose you badly to return fire - even some handguns reach out better, so I prefer a standoff weapon.

While I have AR's in both .223 and .308, the proper use of a standoff weapon is not to take many shots (or not one right after the other) - you give away your position to potentially superior forces doing that, and those battle rifles aren't that great "at range", where I prefer any enemies to be. The .223 kinda runs out of ambition at about 400 yds, and most can't shoot one well at even 200 (even by then you're calculating bullet drop at the estimated range), so...

So, of all things, probably a bolt action in 6.5mm, or .308 for the long range stuff, as the handguns easily handle the close in stuff with plenty of firepower. My bolts are much more accurate than the assault rifles are, and my assault rifles are *good*.

I think it's a function of the likely terrain, primarily. I live in the woods and hills, with a lot of places to just hunker down and disappear, and many ways out that would be very hard for an opponent to guard most of - you could probably even avoid airborne FLIR here if you knew a couple tricks (I do).

In a city, you don't get the long shots unless you're up in a building or something. That's trapping yourself if you think you're going to have to move - even Hollywood gets that one - when the perp runs up into a building, it's the end for him, surrounded and defeated in detail at the other guy's leisure.

One shot - they know where you are to within 20% in range and 30 degrees of angle. Two and every ear, eye, and weapon is turned your way. Three and your insurance premiums are only going up. (Maj John Plaster, paraphrased)

This is why so many teach "tactical situational awareness". Not to mention "pre performance visualization". If you've got a zombie horde - yeah, get the high cap close-in battle rifle, but you're doomed if they're all armed and close enough for that to work, and if they aren't mostly armed - why do you need it?

Of course, one of my hi cap pistols is a carbon-15 in .223 which can do more than one kind of service, other than making me the envy of every teen for miles. But it's also the second noisiest and muzzle flashiest of all my guns (the .50 bmg takes those prizes, but not by very much). I keep that one on a pull out shelf under my bed...the idea being it looks so intimidating with a 40 rd clip, I might not have to shoot.

He who shoots and runs away, lives to shoot another day...
The other good saying is that if you find yourself in a fair fight - shoot the planner first, that's just not supposed to be allowed to happen!

I guess best would be to have prepared a hide or two, with arms there already.
Remember that Mel Gibson movie, "The patriot" where he really foxes out the enemy because he did that? In more modern times, all those different weapons "signatures" can provide the impression of more guys than you've got - can be useful.

But I don't like leaving good hardware out in the woods...if you pack it up corrosion proof, it's going to be hard to get into the package quickly and noiselessly. And in that situation, it will matter.

If we are just talking fantasy land, well, I tend to have a lot of tannerite in stock. Imagine having concealed a bunch here and there in the trees. "Imagine their surprise" when stuff near them starts exploding (and completely masking their ability to tell where the shot came from). Kind of like the scene in "hard target" except this stuff is a lot more dramatic than booze as a booby trap.

Minigun from Predator trumps all

DCFusor said: He who shoots and runs away, lives to shoot another day...
The other good saying is that if you find yourself in a fair fight - shoot the planner first, that's just not supposed to be allowed to happen!

DC, that method is the Parthian method. Ever hear the term "Parting shot"? Actually, it is Parthian shot, becaus as they ran away, they would shoot over their shoulder to keep you at bay, thus buying distance between them and you as well as more escape time. Sting and run. Every wounded enemy requires two healthy troops to carry and tend his wounds. He also still has to eat.

DCFusor said: If we are just talking fantasy land, well, I tend to have a lot of tannerite in stock.


I thought I was the only one. That shit can, if properly done, be set up literally months in advance. If placed in a vac-seal food preservation pouch, it can be painted, concealed with light brush, no trespassing signs or whatever. If a rack of that shit goes off ten feet from your head, you will be deaf for a month, most likely shell shocked and probably flash blinded if you are facing it. Tannerite is awesome exploding target playtime funnness!!

BTW, just for knowing THAT, DC rocks the fucking neighborhood! You can come over and drink my beer any time!

ancona said:

Arkad, where are you man? I am interested to know what you think about my proposition. If I already carry a weapon and extra mag, do I still get to grab-and-go? Is it somehow an unfair "advantage"? After all, if the time is available to grab a gun, yet I already have one, it simply makes sense that I would grab a battle rifle [carbine W/16" barrel actually] and go. I already have a fat BOB in the truckster. Does the family get to grab and go as well? Can one grab a rifle and the other load a crate of ammo instead of grabbing a weapon? If I have my carry piece and so does the wife, my kid could grab a crate or two of 5,56 and the wive could grab a case of 9mm, while I would grab the carbine. We would then be pretty well situated to repel zombies. There are of course, endless permutations of the situation posed, but if it is simply an exercise using time as the only denominator, that is how I would use it.

Of course, the ray gun is my first choice, but I don't have that kind of scratch, so I have to use conventional.....I'm just saying.

;-)

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WOW, I have to check this more often... this topic went a bit awry...:flail:
Actually, I posed this question because someone asked me what I felt was the best choice for a "survival" firearm to grab and go, if needed.
They know I have a background in a specific field in which I have acquired a skill set relevant to the subject.
At first, I thought I had a real good idea of "the one firearm" but now I'm not so sure... Now I can see that this is going to depend on so many factors, that it will need to be approached differently with each individual.
This question really is not a problem for most of the people in my "loop" as like most here, they are... lets say... "well equipped".
Some people that I have talked to have no experience (at all) with firearms, but feel that they are just not as prepared as they could be, if they were to arm themselves.

Damn only one... I had to think about this for a second but I would have to grab the 12 gauge mossburg pump w/ pistol grip... versitile, powerful, and reliable.

white&yellow999 said:

Damn only one... I had to think about this for a second but I would have to grab the 12 gauge mossburg pump w/ pistol grip... versitile, powerful, and reliable.

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See...that's _all_ I'm sayin'...

I still think you need to work out the probable use-case. Can't shove a shotgun into a pocket and travel silently - and concealed carry - not always wise to show everyone you are armed - information asymmetry disadvantage. Can't use it effectively at any but short range, which makes even a bad shot able to hit you back....and so on. Sure, if you're the aggressor, you can't beat one for clearing a room...but for defense, not so great in a lot of possible situations.

Looking at it in reverse, as a defender, I really hope all my attackers have is shotguns, because they'll never get into range on me - even if all I have is my little .38. When the DEA raided my place (victim of profiling, we were innocent) out of all those guys, only one had a shotgun. It was largely handguns (.40's, glocks - 6 or 7), 3 mp5's, one sniper and one shotgun, FWIW. They seemed to know their business, mostly.

I love my 12ga pump as much as the next guy, but if I had 3 seconds to grab something as I ran for the hills or whatever, it would be my rifle, which is a 7.62 semi auto.

Sorry for the late arrival. I would already be carrying my Springfield XD40 w/ spare mag. like previously mentioned, if the "one gun you would grab if time permitted" still applies to those who are already carrying, I would grab my Norenco Mak90 7.62 in one hand, and a full ammo can in the other.

"BTW, just for knowing THAT, DC rocks the fucking neighborhood! You can come over and drink my beer and laugh at my neighbors any time!" - corrected that for you ancona

Or vice versa. Plenty of beer and amusing neighbors here, as well. Y'all come visit any time. Nice pistol/rifle range in the back, also. It's a pretty fun place to be.

Great thread, I wished I had dropped by earlier as well.

Since I live in a condo and don't anywhere else to run to, I'd just have to keep my AK and my 9 mm Beretta close at hand.

But, I sure wouldn't mind having the ray gun or the mini-gun either...

Military grade shotgun...

AA-12


Oh.. with the Frag 12 for sure.. (around 4:30) lol

For ease of use and simplicity of design, I quite prefer my Sig 9 and my Glock 17 9mm parabellum. For concealability, the Sig gets high marks from me. On occasion, I strap a little PF9 to my ankle, but I hate firing the damn thing because it is incredibly snappy.

That shotgun would sure improve my clay shooting!

I wonder about mindset here. All this short range stuff seems so popular. Could it be that city dwellers think in smaller sizes, due to having to? Me, if someone's close enough for a shotgun to be effective (other than defending my front door being bashed in, maybe), I've screwed up badly.

At the range he was firing that, I guarantee I could hit a person with a blindfold on with the CZ in .45 - just by hearing the sound they make, or the way they affect the sounds already there. That Zen thing isn't actually that hard to learn, I've managed - and it's not magic at all.

Of course, we could be talking either self defense or just survival here. For survival, no question I want a rifle, small or large. I can eat squirrels, rabbits, or bigger game just fine - and we don't have pistol-class wild hogs here. If I could have only two rifles, I'd guess one would be my marlin .22 semiauto with a 3x9 scope, and my .308 bolt (with a Leupold...) - kind of spans the range. The situation an AR was designed for and handles excellently looks like a low probability situation for me, but it would be very very different in a city where ranges are short, and there's a lot of buildings and cover and chances of running up on a lot of enemies in a group without warning. That's just not happening here with the lay of the land as it is. Since the norm is "no people at all" - there's no distractions by "innocents" - situation would be much simpler.

I think if we want to discuss this seriously we need to frame more parameters. But I have to say, I like the cool military stuff for its own sake too. How about that 25 mm with the smart payload? Now, that's cool!

DC,
I live in a community of homes that borders large tracts of residential agricultural zoned lots of about 10 - 20 acres each. While close to them, i am still about five hundred yards deep in to an area of quarter and half acre lots. While not dense by modern suburban standards, if TSHTF here, a lot of the action would be within a hundred yards. At a hundred yards, I would obviously take the opportunity to retreat if possible, but if placed in an untenable situation i would stand my ground and return fire using all the skills I can muster. A shotgun is not my favorite weapon for close in defense, but will do. I prefer my carbine chambered in 5.56 for anything between 25 and 150 yards and I prefer my handguns for anything closer. A shotgun would be useful at close ranges but I would not be as nimble as I would be with a nine or a forty.

Exactomundo. In your situation, the AR (or equivalent) is the rifle of choice - perfect, unless somehow you can fade back into the unpopulated area where you might want something that can hit anything you can see, almost no matter how far. Close in, a shotgun is more intimidating, but a handgun with a skilled user is faster and probably more effective.

The only way I could get a crowd of attackers - I'd hear the bus they rode in on coming! It's just not going to happen in any realistic scenario. I might get a crowd in a car kinda appear real quick, but I have in-house tools for that one too. That carbon is very intimidating full auto. But if I was out in the woods, it's about the last thing I'd want to have to hump around.

FWIW, my .38 revolver, with a red dot and a +p load I developed zeroes at both 20 and 100 yards, perfectly...I don't carry it - it's big and ugly. But...the latter number is well past what a shotgun is much use for unless you're using it as a pretend-rifle with slugs. In that case, why pretend? Use the real deal.

Arkad said:

If you had to "bug out" FAST, and only had time to grab one firearm, what would be the one firearm you would take with you?

For me it would have to be my Glock MOD.23
Light, sturdy, simple and will always work...

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This really depends on several things.
1) How long are you leaving
2) Why are you leaving
3) Will you be alone; If not, what are the other group members carrying

You don't grab an AK-47 if the building is on fire.
You don't grab a pistol if you have to go survive for months in the woods.

Just to be clear.. I wasn't posting that to be serious. I'm not a gun person at all. I just found both of those guns to be hilarious.

There is a funny video about the AA12 out there....Found it:

And the kid is Russian (with a bad accent). Too funny.

I especially love the part where he dumps the gun in the water drum, pulls it out and starts firing.

Having put a couple of hundred rounds through a fairly nicely decked out Bushmaster AR-15 (not mine), and double that amount through my own Mini-14... thinking ....

Since I don't own that 'nicely outfitted' AR, it'll have to be the mini-14, since it is the only weapon that is 'ready to go' with plenty-o-magazines, strap, and easy to carry. Common caliber and accepts 5.56mm (580/590 serial...)!

Oh shit. The AR vs. Mini thing isn't meant to incite :-/ I just realized that's an on-going thing out there in the gunforumblogowebsphere...

Ah well, I guess someone should say a word in favour of the compound bow. No need for a silencer.

I see PMBug found the FPS Russia guy. Here's link to lots of his videos, most of which are pretty awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9ED6B6AA7A8C2CDC&feature=plcp

Enjoy.

Jetstream said:

Ah well, I guess someone should say a word in favour of the compound bow. No need for a silencer.

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I made my own silencer for a 22 rifle. It was pretty easy. Just take a small pvc tube (say 1/2' and make it fit your barrell, you might need some tape) and drill some holes in it to make a baffle. Neck it up to a larger pvc tube about (1-1/4") using a 1/2" couple on both ends. In between the 1/2" pvc and 1-1/4" pvc put some steel wool. To finish, I cut the top off a quart oil container and drilled a bullet hole in the center of it and glued it to the end of the tube.

There's lots of videos on the internet giving more details. I found it a fun little project and it works quite well.

The FPS Russia guy is a riot! I have seen several of his videos firing truly awesome weapons.

This is a great thread!

***

Condo-dwelling suburban-living Bearing does not have anywhere to go (except Peru), so we would "Bug-in". My two weapons appear to more-or less conform to DCFusor's ideas above of how appropriate certain guns are for one's own situation (in my case a 9 mm Beretta and an AK-47). Those two cover most of my bases that I see.

My gun strategy is based on a "Great Depression v. 2" that I have discussed elsewhere. This means that in this scenario I would expect America to survive more-or-less as we know it, just take a real beating because of our debts and all.

If we were to LEAVE, it would be going to Peru, where we have "infrastructure" (a bedroom to stay in and a stable company we mostly own). I don't know if Peru would let me even bring my two guns in...

I'll add my vote for a bow, though I'd get a crossbow myself - less skill required and easier to semi-conceal.

You know you're admitting to a felony (actually, several) to say you made a silencer, right? They are Class III items - legal with the appropriate heavy background checks and taxes paid and permits acquired - but only then. Manufacture just adds another felony over just owning one if you didn't go through all that. And these are real high class federal felonies, not simple manslaughter-or rob the bank-class stuff - but go down for a very long time in a PMITA prison. Just FYI from a gunsmith.

For anyone contemplating that - for a .22 the muzzle pressure is only a few K psi, if that - they're already nearly silent. Don't try it with say, .223 with some tens of thousands psi muzzle pressure - you're going to get badly hurt when it explodes. Don't ask how I know.

I doubt (and hope) we don't get reduced to shooting one another in general. The main threat is the gov itself shooting at us - and that's a very difficult game to win for either side - but usually winds up with dead citizens. From my own experience with being attacked by the gov - you'd better just go limp at least these days (germany pre WWII might have been a different issue). They really understand the idea that the guy who brings more guys to the party, and has surprise, wins. To attack me and two possible others here, they brought a big van full of guys, two cars, a cop and an ambulance, and total time from me getting home to all those vehicles disgorging guys with guns already cocked and aimed was on the order of 30 seconds.

Ten seconds once they crossed my border by ignoring the roads and just crashing all that through a hedgerow so as to appear here quicker.


While I did and do have friends all over who would come to my aid in just about any situation - for that moment - they outnumbered us 9::1.

There's not much you're going to be able to do about that - they understand about localized concentration of force and defeating an enemy piecemeal. Just failing to raise your hands the exactly right way is an instant death penalty with that crew. Running back into the house would have the same result.

The "zombie hordes" might be a real worry at some point, but...killing them might not be the best way unless there really is no other choice - and it's cheating to say I have to stay where they are going to be and kill them if they attack - you made a choice there to create that situation.
My model says it'd be better to utilize them, by feeding them and helping them in exchange for their help in return, to the extent possible.

A low profile (and doggone it DoChen, getting the hell out of the city - opera will NOT MATTER then) is key there. They'll be busy in the dense areas a long time before many trickle out to the rural areas, if ever.

DCFusor said:

...
You know you're admitting to a felony (actually, several) to say you made a silencer, right? ...

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He's in New Zealand. The BATF doesn't have jurisdiction there.

Hey DC. As PMBug says, I'm in New Zealand. It's all legal here. I made mine for rabbiting, you can shoot one, walk 25 yards and there's another one thanks to the silencer and subsonic ammo. I bought the gun for $100 and it had no threading which would have cost a bunch, plus the cost of the silencer which is why I made one.

Here's a silencer/suppressor link for NZ's biggest gun store:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/silencers-suppressors-xidg11149.html

NZ is looking better all the time!