US debt ceiling, gov shutdown and Speaker of the House fight

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Rolling Stone

The Seven Ugliest Provisions in Trump's ‘Big Beautiful Bill'​

Donald Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill" is a reverse-Robin Hood nightmare. It steals from the poor to give to the rich. The 1,038-page version that passed the House will also balloon the deficit by nearly $4 trillion.

The Trump tax bill achieves this feat by extending (and in many cases expanding) tax breaks for the richest Americans, while at the same time depriving more than 10 million Americans of health insurance and regular access to their doctors, by axing $880 billion from Medicaid. It also increases red tape for Obamacare, while allowing other subsidies to lapse, boxing millions more out of their insurance.

The bill is regressive as a matter of tax policy. It will reduce the take-home incomes of bottom 10 percent of income earners by four percent by the end of the decade, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects. Penn Wharton, Trump's alma mater, finds that most households earning less than $51,000 will immediately see their after-tax income decrease. Meanwhile, the bill boosts the incomes of the top one percent by nearly $70,000 in the first year alone, giving that elite cohort a collective $124 billion net tax cut.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/t...S&cvid=8f2ce34b2f7940008ddaff6bb76916d5&ei=18
 

House GOP passed trillions in tax cuts. How Trump’s ‘big bill’ could change in the Senate​

  • House GOP passed a multi-trillion-dollar tax and spending package that includes many of President Donald Trump’s priorities.
  • Some provisions, including Medicaid, the “SALT” deduction and child tax credit, among others, could change amid Senate Republican debate.
  • After the Senate vote, House lawmakers will have to approve changes to the bill, which could be tough, experts say.
House Republicans passed a multi-trillion-dollar tax and spending package after months of debate, which included many of President Donald Trump’s priorities.

Now, policy experts are bracing for Senate changes as GOP lawmakers aim to finalize the “big bill” by the Fourth of July.

If enacted as currently drafted, the House’s “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” would make permanent Trump’s 2017 tax cuts, while adding new tax breaks for tip income, overtime pay and older Americans, among other provisions.

More:

 

Insurers, states warn of Obamacare chaos due to GOP megabill​

Private insurers and state officials are warning of utter chaos in the insurance markets if a last-minute change to the House GOP’s megabill survives in the Senate.

The policy could lead to higher premiums for people who shop for plans on the Obamacare exchanges and cause massive turmoil for actuaries, and leave brokers and state officials with little time between when the law is enacted and the start of open enrollment in the fall to understand the many ways the change affects Affordable Care Act plans.

Under the bill, which the House passed recently, certain federal payments to insurers that President Donald Trump canceled during his first term would resume next year, but only if plans refuse to cover abortions, which they are obligated to cover in 12 states and the District of Columbia.

More:

 

Sen. Rand Paul on reconciliation bill: I will not vote to raise the debt ceiling by $5 trillion​

Jun 3, 2025
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) joins 'Squawk Box' to discuss the fate of the House-passed reconciliation package, why he's against the bill, addressing the national debt, changes he'd like to see to the bill, and more.

9:23
 
I guess they aren't best buds any more. Maybe Muskrat feels slighted?

Musk torches Trump budget bill: 'Disgusting abomination'​

  • Elon Musk tore into the massive tax-and-spending-cut bill backed by President Donald Trump, calling it a "disgusting abomination" that will explode federal budget deficits.
  • The package Trump dubs the "one big, beautiful bill" is a "disgusting abomination," the Tesla and SpaceX CEO wrote on X days after ending his role leading DOGE.
  • Trump earlier lashed out at Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., for criticizing the bill over its provision to raise the debt ceiling.
Elon Musk on Tuesday tore into the massive tax-and-spending-cut bill backed by President Donald Trump, calling it a "disgusting abomination" that will explode federal budget deficits.

"I'm sorry, but I just can't stand it anymore," the Tesla and SpaceX CEO wrote in a post on his social media site X.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...S&cvid=86f0b43c50474f59b334c929629645b5&ei=14
 
I really just can't figure out Elon Musk. I guess I don't think that's him anymore. But what is with this bromance with Trump?
 
searcher said:
Sen. Rand Paul on reconciliation bill: I will not vote to raise the debt ceiling by $5 trillion
Click to expand...
It kinda has to be raised, as there's no chance of cutting $2trillion from the budget in one year.
....and to not raise the debt ceiling means default.


What's Rand's answer?


Mine would be to go ahead and cut $2Trillion from this years budget and let the chips fall where they may, but no one in congress will vote to do that. Not even Rand.
 

Inside the 3 huge lies Trump is telling Republicans about his Medicaid cuts | Opinion​

I never thought I’d agree with Elon Musk, but even he thinks Trump’s Big Ugly Bill is a “disgusting abomination.”

Trump is busily working the Senate this week in an effort to get his Big Ugly Bill across the finish line. Given the Republicans’ close margin in the Senate, he can afford to lose only three Republican senators.

But Republican senators don’t like the idea of cutting Medicaid — many of their constituents depend on it — and they’re balking at the huge deficit-busting price tag (which, of course, includes a giant tax cut mostly for the wealthy).

I think what Senate Republicans are most afraid of is the way this will look to the average American — a Republican reverse Robin Hood strategy of taking from the poor and working class (mostly in Medicaid cuts but also food stamps and other programs they depend on) in order to finance a tax cut for the rich, while still busting the budget.

In essence, then, the question is whether Trump and his lackeys will be able to fool the American people.

Herewith, the Trump Republican lies about Medicaid, followed by the truth.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...aid-cuts-opinion/ar-AA1G3VZt?ocid=socialshare
 

Trump Obscures Medicaid Cuts in Bid to Pass Massive Tax Bill​

(Bloomberg) -- Donald Trump publicly resisted Medicaid cuts — until his budget director, Russell Vought, convinced the president that reductions to heath coverage for low-income people, embedded in the Republican tax bill, were just weeding out fraud and abuse.

Trump has readily adopted that rhetoric, repeatedly declaring that his signature bill contains “no cuts” to the social safety program, even as the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates at least 7.6 million people would become uninsured if the bill takes effect.

Republicans are betting they can win the semantic — and thus the political — battle over the future of Medicaid. At stake is a multi-trillion dollar tax bill, the cornerstone of Trump’s economic agenda, which Republicans are relying on to counter the effects of tariffs that threaten to slow down economic growth.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...massive-tax-bill/ar-AA1G3WDa?ocid=socialshare
 
Voodoo said:
But what is with this bromance with Trump?
Click to expand...

From what I've been hearing on the news the bromance may be over. There's a possibility that T used Musk then crapped all over him. Musk thought Starlink was gonna be used to update our air craft control systems. From what I've been hearing that isn't happening. Pretty sure the tax deduction for buying an EV is on it's way out of the picture. The DOGE stuff hasn't been acted on and may never be. This is just here say right now. As time goes on it'll come out in the news.

There's also the spotlight thing. T doesn't want to share that with anyone.
 

Sen. Ron Johnson on 'immoral' GOP spending bill: This is grotesque what we're doing​

Jun 4, 2025
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) joins 'Squawk Box' to discuss the fate of the Republican reconciliation bill, why he's proposing a two-part bill, cutting government spending, how to best address the deficit, whether the bill can pass before July 4, and more.

12:56
 
FU*k the debt ceiling. Sky's the limit!

 
If the debt limit is scrapped do I get a big beautiful check?

Trump calls for scrapping debt limit​

President Trump on Wednesday doubled down on calls to scrap the nation’s debt ceiling, pressing for bipartisan action to abolish it and finding common ground with Democrat Sen. Elizabeth Warren (Mass.).

“I am very pleased to announce that, after all of these years, I agree with Senator Elizabeth Warren on SOMETHING. The Debt Limit should be entirely scrapped to prevent an Economic catastrophe. It is too devastating to be put in the hands of political people that may want to use it despite the horrendous effect it could have on our Country and, indirectly, even the World. As to Senator Warren’s second statement on the $4 Trillion Dollars, I like that also, but it would have to be done over a period of time, as short as possible. Let’s get together, Republican and Democrat, and DO THIS!” Trump said on Truth Social.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...pping-debt-limit/ar-AA1G66j2?ocid=socialshare
 
Should've been scrapped a long time ago.

Congress controls the purse strings, so any spending congress authorizes that goes into deficit territory, should be approved the moment it's Enacted.


It's stupid to authorize spending that they know will be on the deficit side, only to tie the Treasuries hands when it comes time to pay for that spending.



It'd be like a husband running up debt, but telling the wife she can't write a check to pay for it when the bill comes.
 
Joe King said:
Should've been scrapped a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Something needs to be done. As to what..........I really don't know.

From Grok:

Is the United States the only country that has a debt limit? If not, what are some of the other countries that have one and how do they deal with it?


The United States is not the only country with a debt limit, though its approach—using a fixed nominal amount and facing recurring political standoffs—is unique. Several other countries have debt limits, typically set as a percentage of GDP, and their management practices vary based on economic context and governance. Below is an overview of countries with debt limits and how they handle them, based on available information:
Countries with Debt Limits
  1. United States
    • Debt Limit: The U.S. has a statutory debt ceiling set at a fixed nominal amount, currently $36.1 trillion as of January 2, 2025, following a suspension that ended in 2023.
    • Management Practices: The U.S. debt ceiling is a legislative cap on total federal borrowing, established in 1917 and modified in 1939 to give the Treasury flexibility. When the limit is reached, the Treasury uses "extraordinary measures" (e.g., redeeming bonds in federal retirement accounts, halting pension contributions) to avoid default. These measures delay the "X Date," when the government can no longer meet obligations. The ceiling has been raised or suspended 78 times since 1960, often after intense political negotiations, sometimes leading to government shutdowns or fears of default. Critics argue it’s a political tool that creates unnecessary economic uncertainty.
  2. Denmark
    • Debt Limit: Denmark is the only other advanced economy with a debt ceiling set at a fixed nominal amount, currently 2 trillion Danish kroner (approximately $290 billion), set in 2010. This is far above its 2023 debt level of 327 billion kroner (16% of the ceiling).
    • Management Practices: Denmark’s ceiling is intentionally set high to avoid political drama, functioning as a formality rather than a binding constraint. Established in 1993 as a constitutional requirement after transferring debt management to the National Bank, it’s rarely debated due to Denmark’s less polarized politics and strong fiscal position. The high ceiling ensures borrowing needs don’t trigger crises, and the EU’s 60% debt-to-GDP rule garners more attention.
  3. European Union Member States (e.g., Poland, Germany, France, etc.)
    • Debt Limit: Under the Maastricht Treaty (1992), EU member states (except the UK during its membership) are required to keep general government debt below 60% of GDP and annual budget deficits below 3% of GDP, or show a declining trajectory if exceeded. Poland has a constitutional debt limit of 60% of GDP, prohibiting budgets that breach it.
    • Management Practices: EU debt rules, part of the Stability and Growth Pact (SGP), are often flexible. Many countries exceed the 60% limit (e.g., Greece, Italy), but enforcement is lenient, with adjustments allowed for economic crises (e.g., suspended during the 2008 recession and COVID-19). A 2024 SGP revision introduced more flexibility in correcting excessive debt or deficits. Poland enforces its constitutional limit strictly, suspending tough measures during crises like 2013 to prioritize recovery. The EU is exploring further reforms to support green and digital transitions, indicating non-binding limits in practice.
  4. Kenya
    • Debt Limit: Kenya has transitioned from a nominal debt limit to one set at 55% of GDP to ensure sustainable debt management.
    • Management Practices: The shift to a GDP-based limit aims to align borrowing with economic growth, avoiding frequent political negotiations. Kenya focuses on balancing budget deficits with sustainable borrowing, though specific practices depend on economic conditions and IMF-supported programs, which emphasize debt sustainability and transparency.
  5. Malaysia
    • Debt Limit: Malaysia’s debt ceiling is set at 60% of GDP, raised from 55% in 2020 and temporarily to 65% in 2021 to accommodate pandemic-related borrowing. The temporary increase lapsed in 2022.
    • Management Practices: Malaysia adjusts its debt ceiling to address economic needs, such as fiscal stimulus during crises. The limit is non-binding in practice, allowing flexibility for development spending. The government prioritizes fiscal discipline to maintain investor confidence while meeting economic demands.
  6. Namibia and Pakistan
    • Debt Limit: Both countries have debt limits set as a percentage of GDP, though specific thresholds are not detailed in the sources.
    • Management Practices: These nations use GDP-based limits to signal fiscal restraint to investors, but the limits are often non-binding. Management involves aligning borrowing with IMF and World Bank guidelines, focusing on debt sustainability and transparency. Pakistan, for example, faces high debt vulnerabilities, and IMF programs impose debt conditionality to manage risks.
  7. Australia (Formerly)
    • Debt Limit: Australia had a nominal debt ceiling from 2007 to 2013, starting at $75 billion and increasing to $300 billion by 2012. It was repealed in 2013 due to political friction.
    • Management Practices: The ceiling was raised multiple times to accommodate borrowing needs but became a source of political conflict, leading to its abolition. Australia now relies on fiscal rules and market discipline to manage debt, avoiding rigid statutory limits.
Key Observations
  • Nominal vs. GDP-Based Limits: The U.S. and Denmark use fixed nominal debt ceilings, but Denmark’s high ceiling avoids crises, unlike the U.S., where frequent raises fuel political battles. Most other countries use GDP-based limits, which adjust with economic growth and are less likely to cause immediate crises.
  • Flexibility and Enforcement: GDP-based limits (e.g., EU, Malaysia) are often non-binding or flexible, allowing adjustments during crises. The U.S.’s rigid nominal cap, combined with polarized politics, makes it an outlier in creating economic uncertainty.
  • Global Context: The World Bank and IMF support countries (especially low-income ones) in managing debt through sustainability frameworks, transparency initiatives, and tools like the Debt Management Facility (DMF). These emphasize balancing borrowing with repayment capacity, unlike the U.S.’s politically charged approach.
Why the U.S. Stands Out
The U.S. debt ceiling is unique due to its fixed nominal value and the recurring political brinkmanship it triggers, risking default and global financial instability. Other countries with debt limits, like Denmark or EU members, either set high thresholds or use flexible, GDP-based rules to avoid such crises. Denmark’s ceiling, for instance, is a formality, while EU limits are often exceeded without severe consequences. The U.S.’s approach is seen as a “political bargaining chip” that other nations avoid through pragmatic design or less polarized governance.
If you’d like more details on a specific country or management practice, let me know!
 

Trump Is Losing Patience With Musk’s Outbursts Over Megabill​

WASHINGTON—President Trump is losing patience with Elon Musk after the billionaire attacked Republicans’ sprawling tax-and-spending bill. Musk is irked about Trump’s decision to withdraw the nomination of a key ally to lead the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

The result is a fraying relationship between two of the world’s most powerful men.

A senior White House official said Trump wasn’t happy about Musk’s decision to lambaste his signature legislation, describing the president as confused as to why the Tesla chief executive decided to ratchet up his criticism after working so closely with the president for four months. The official said senior Trump advisers were caught off guard by Musk’s latest offensive.

The uneasy alliance between the two men was also strained by a recent move by the White House to nix Trump’s nominee to run NASA, Jared Isaacman, according to people familiar with the matter. Musk, a close ally of Isaacman, had advocated for him to get the job.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ts-over-megabill/ar-AA1G6mY4?ocid=socialshare
 
Looks like things are heating up. FWIW..........this seems personal to me.

Musk blasts Trump: ‘Without me, Trump would have lost’​

  • The alliance between President Donald Trump and mega-billionaire tech mogul Elon Musk dramatically fractured over the president’s major tax bill.
  • Trump said Musk opposes the bill, which is pending in the Senate, because the Tesla CEO is “upset” about the elimination of EV credits in the package, and the president nixing his pick to run NASA.
  • “Whatever,” replied Musk, who had wanted fellow billionaire tech executive Jared Isaacman to run the space agency. “Without me, Trump would have lost the election.”
The alliance between President Donald Trump and mega-billionaire tech mogul Elon Musk dramatically fractured Thursday over the president’s major tax bill

Trump said Musk has been condemning the bill, which is pending in the Senate, because the Tesla CEO is “upset” about the elimination of EV credits in the package, and the president nixing his pick to run NASA.

“I’m very disappointed in Elon. I’ve helped Elon a lot,” Trump told reporters at the White House.

More:

 
^^^^^^

4 days ago

'Trump will go after Elon's money next.' Michael Cohen predicts toxic Trump-Elon fallout​

Jun 1, 2025 #elonmusk #trump #michaelcohen
Elon Musk has officially left the Trump administration but Trump is saying he'll still be an influence in the GOP. But will that friendship last? MSNBC's Ayman Mohyeldin, Catherine Rampell and Antonia Hylton speak with former Trump attorney Michael Cohen on Musk's exit and Trump's erratic tariff policies.

11:43
 

Musk And Trump Alliance Implodes: Trump Threatens To Revoke Musk’s Government Contracts​

President Donald Trump suggested he could revoke Elon Musk’s government contracts Thursday as their alliance imploded in a very public fashion over the course of several hours Thursday in a feud over Trump’s signature policy bill.

“The easiest way to save money in our Budget, Billions and Billions of Dollars, is to terminate Elon’s Governmental Subsidies and Contracts. I was always surprised that Biden didn’t do it!” Trump wrote on Truth Social, amid a barrage of attacks from Musk.
Trump’s threat came after Musk accused Trump of “ingratitude” and said he would have lost the election without him, after the billionaire donated more than $250 million to help elect him last year.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...rnment-contracts/ar-AA1G9X5Z?ocid=socialshare
 
X is crazy right now. Elon is on a rampage. Meanwhile, Trump is throwing punches on Truth Social. Hard to see where this ends on a positive note.
 

'He is an illegal alien': MAGA leader calls on Trump to deport Musk 'immediately'​

The feud between President Donald Trump and Tesla/SpaceX CEO Elon Musk is rapidly intensifying, and now one of Trump's most influential backers is calling on the president to deport the South African centibillionaire.

According to a Thursday report by the New York Times' Tyler Pager, Steve Bannon – who went from being Trump's 2016 campaign chairman to Trump's official White House chief strategist during his first term – wants his former boss to send the world's richest man back to South Africa. The MAGA podcaster told the Times that he was convinced that Musk's immigration status should be scrutinized.

More:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...musk-immediately/ar-AA1GaUMO?ocid=socialshare
 

Post in thread 'The Lunatic Fringe - Political Chat'

Opinion: Trump and Musk fell out because Trump just doesn’t get principled people​

There are limitations to President Trump’s transactional view of the world.

This is evident in his growing tension with Elon Musk, which risks creating political problems that threaten his agenda. Trump usually gets his way through a mix of flattery, favors and intimidation, but Musk is less inclined than most to respond to these techniques.

Musk holds a lot of cards. His Tesla factories employ tens of thousands of American workers. His SpaceX rockets underpin our national aspirations in space. He...
 
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