When they come for your guns...

good read:

quote:
And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state of the art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.

You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog...me-for-your-guns-you-will-turn-them-over.html

edited at 2:03 to add: make sure to read the comments afterwards

I've been attacked by the DEA, I know just what it's like, and nope, war (of any kind) is about money, and they won't bring the attack helo's and related, because it's not cost effective, and believe me, they don't need it to intimidate you enough. They might bring something fancy if you were a tough talking militia in an ignorant compound type situation - which history has shown to be a really dumb thing to be.

They might come for my guns, and they can have the ones they find. That won't be all or even perhaps the best of them...I know how to go limp and de-fuse a situation, and besides - the armor isn't as good on the back as it is on the front!

The danger is that they do it small, local, and not enough to get everyone else up in arms and warned properly. They cannot and will not kill much of the population over something like that - and remember, the military takes an oath to the constitution, unlike cops and obviously, our lawmakers. Many of them take that oath quite seriously, and I really doubt they wind up being the enemies of we civvies.

Do gun owners have boating accidents like PM holders? Or do they stay away from the water?

TDV can leave and coach from the sidelines if they want. They'd just get in the way.

Editing to say that, there are a lot of veteran types like myself. Plenty of us not killing ourselves on a daily basis. Guess I got out before they started giving guys a 'eat your gun' vaccination that seems to be going wrong. I wouldn't want to leave the job of cleaning up a mess like a reset in the U.S.A. to guys like the author anyway. The guy is a fucking union lawyer for Christ's sake. No offense to any lawyers here, but leaving the hard decisions up to lawyers and law makers is what got us here.

Just like DC said, they can have the ones they find. I think [with all due respect of course] that you seriously underestimate the tenacity and will of the small percentage of Americans who are willing to stand up for their rights. Will I take on an armed platoon? No, that would be suicidal and I'm just not that tough. Would I do like the Parthians and slip in, give them an irritating mosquito bite and a shot over the shoulder while running away? Yes.

The very worst thing our government could do is raise the ire of gun owners in America. We own more guns collectively than our entire military does. Period. There are nearly a hundred million rifles and hand guns in private hands. The military simply does not have the manpower to confiscate all of them. Although many will simply bend over and take it up the ass, many more will not.

Count me in the latter group.

which is why I went back and edited the first statement and said read the comments. It seems most folks are NOT going to roll over and give up their guns if the comments are to be believed. (I hope).

but its all moot as I would never own a gun anyway, they are evil dangerous things that have no purpose in our society/ sarc off

I did read a few of them before I posted originally. The more I read the more irritated it made me. I swear some people just shouldn't be published. If he was being devil's advocate to try and reach a certain audience to motivate them, I sure wish he'd said that. Instead he spouted off about how everyone should run away, and if you didn't he is predetermining that you will just be a statistic. Yes, if the world comes to that, there will be a lot of statistics. This guy, to me, is the kind of guy that can't handle the truth.

Gun owners have other kinds of accidents. Accidental burial in sealed PVC pipe - lost the map, theft, sold my guns to ??? for cash, things like that. Even battle-hardened veterans have some of these accidents, and many happen to think as we do.

I wouldn't fear the military other than some over-indoctrinated rogue group - that's always possible of course. They took their job in the first place for a spectrum of different reasons than cops and FBI types who really do seem to think of themselves as individual "gods of you and what's right and wrong". I don't get that vibe, even a little, from vets or active duty military - I've been meeting a lot of them on G+, as fresh civvies, and they are as WTF about what's going on in government as any of us are. And some have mentioned that oath to the constitution without being prompted, they really do take that seriously in the main.

The thing is - if they can't get all of them almost overnight, the first few incidents will warn the rest of us - perhaps the reason for wanting that internet kill switch? Not that it will work...many of us are smart enough to realize what any sudden news lockdown would imply and would be ready.

Their trick of tactically and locally outnumbering you by surprise only works if no one is ready and warned. Obviously, since they are a fraction of us, they can't do this to everyone at once either. This is why you stay under the radar so as not to be one of the first they go after.

Talking tough and building a barbed wire compound is the opposite of that - and very pointless. I've met Randy Weaver (ruby ridge), and we know what happened at Waco. Yet there's another militia in the middle of the US that even has a working tank - but they don't talk trash and are left alone as "mostly harmless". For once, there's an advantage to being among the mostly-faceless, nothing special going on here, these aren't the droids you're looking for, type. Sure take the couple guns you can see hanging on the wall...grinning, sitting on my sack of seeds. Talk to you later.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - and yes, you can take that more than one way.

Shelby-villian said:

Do gun owners have boating accidents like PM holders? Or do they stay away from the water?

Click to expand...

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...awfUJX6LubI0QW2m4G4Bg&ved=0CEMQ9QEwAQ&dur=547

The problem is, after I lose my guns, I console myself by going out on a boat to see how my PM's look in the glinty sunshine off the water...

"...throughout history, of course, disarmament is always a necessary precursor to totalitarianism and the eventual mass slaughter of target groups. In fact, arms in the hands of citizens are often the final barrier to complete enslavement and even extermination."

"...many of the guns confiscated from whites by officials have later been found at the gruesome murder scenes of white farmers"

http://thenewamerican.com/world-new...acing-white-genocide-total-communist-takeover

:wave:

hmmm... witness reports of multiple shooters in Aurora.

Now witness reports of multiple shooters at the sihk church...

so should we start expecting a mass shooting every week until the evil guns are outlawed?

The method will be to is tax hell out of weapons and ammo, next, manipulate the insurance force, making it impossible to own a weapon and still be insured. They'll do something sneaky like that. Trouble is, it's already here and as one of the founding father's stated, as long as the atrocities are tolerable, we'll do nothing about it. And we're not. We hit "like" if we agree on Facebook, but that's all the balls I've seen anyone have. The greatest patriots are those civilian militia units the media pokes fun at. The ones they label as "redneck", "terrorist", or "hate group". If you don't band together, you're an individual and can do nothing.

That's what they do already for class III weapons (anything full auto) as the first ban they tried got tossed out of the supreme court.

I'm not so sure about banding together, actually. At least not obviously - perhaps a few back channel comms between "cells" would be good, but any obvious band just makes themselves a target - one grenade gets you all (or one pass with a warthog).

The idea that one person can do nothing is defeatist. In the end, it's always one person that is the critical turning point. One person started "Fast and Furious" for example, one started the DHS...and so on. Ideas matter.

I do tend to agree about the lack of balls in society at large, but that changes very quickly when people figure out there's little or nothing to lose - as they say, that's freedom. For most people, that seems to be about 2-3 missed meals. And that could very well happen to a lot more people who never have missed even one before than has ever been seen in modern times.

One reason OWS was so hard to shut down is it didn't have a leadership hierarchy.
It finally took enough bad weather.

Cops infiltrating this (which itself was illegal - they were doing nothing wrong) made them all laugh by constantly asking who is the leader - so they could "remove the head of the snake". Finding out there wasn't one really messed them up.

We should learn from that.

the difference between Power and Force

true power is like Ghandi's stand against the colonial occupier. It requires no more that an idea that is 'right' for its time. It does not require a heirarchy, or rools, or enforcers of said rools.

Force is the opposite and begets more force as it tries to build.
It ultimately collapses under its own weight as Power will eventually overcome Force.

A current example ( that i predicted 5 years ago ) is - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi
She is truly Awesome and a perfect example of Power !

And recall how the Falun Gong terrified the Chinese Enforceers -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/18/china-falun-gong-crackdown

This movement continues unabated and cannot be stopped.



ooommmmmmmmm

did anyone see the DHS added to their ammo arsenal today?

Homeland Security Orders 1.2 Billion Rounds Of Ammo :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnunXBWo9c0&feature=youtu.be

I, for one, will be the first to die in our governments war to enslave those individuals not somehow attached to the government's "elite". But I will take some with me. I was raised in a time when we were taught about little incidents like the "Revolutionary War", "War of Northern Aggression", etc... I believe freedom is worth dying for. With this, I mean, make the person who wants to chip away at my freedom die. The time for using the electoral system to address our issues has now passed. Case in point: We have now been told that you will NOT get from Social Security what you've paid in to it, yet the government can vote themselves raises. Anyone care to comment? Anyone care to do anything about it? I thought so. The end of (the individual American's) freedom is at hand. Whether you care to accept it or not. click "Like" if you agree.

I've been uncertain whether to even pen this one. "Give me 6 lines written by the most virtuous, and I'll find a way to hang them" comes to mind.

If you think things are really already that bad (and I won't put up an argument they're not), and feel as you do, what are you waiting for? The rest of us? Them to come for you specifically so you can only take some low-level grunts with you? I sense serious cognitive dissonance here.

IOW, sniper training, at least most of it, can be done even by an older guy, we know who are creating the problems...And it isn't mostly the low level law enforcement type grunts.

Damn, I didn't say that in my out-loud voice, did I? Burn before reading.

Simo Hayha, hardcore sniper: http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html

"Over the course of 100 days, Hayha killed 542 people with his rifle. He took out another 150 or so with his SMG, sending his credited kill-count up to 705."

DCFusor said:

I've been uncertain whether to even pen this one. "Give me 6 lines written by the most virtuous, and I'll find a way to hang them" comes to mind.

If you think things are really already that bad (and I won't put up an argument they're not), and feel as you do, what are you waiting for? The rest of us? Them to come for you specifically so you can only take some low-level grunts with you? I sense serious cognitive dissonance here.

IOW, sniper training, at least most of it, can be done even by an older guy, we know who are creating the problems...And it isn't mostly the low level law enforcement type grunts.

Damn, I didn't say that in my out-loud voice, did I? Burn before reading.

Click to expand...

I know some guys from Blackwater like this but they don't talk about anything. And to send chills down my spine, I was riding to a nearby town with one one day and suddenly he looked at me and said, "you know, I've only met two guys in my life I would trust". And I knew I certainly wasn't one of them....

Personally, I think that taking an armed stance against the government is nothing short of suicidal. There's nothing that they would like more, than for freedom fighters to grab a firearm - they can be shot freely the very same moment, in "self defense", or "protecting the society". Which frankly, does even pass the smell test, in many cases.

I believe that massive, yet peaceful demonstrations, are the only way forward. And it will take time and suffering, to build up enough steam in the society. Why it is, that peaceful demonstrations are quite often provoked (by govt agents wearing civilian cloths), to turn into violence, and ALWAYS portrayed as such? Because they have simple excuse then to "respond" with violence, and do not look like terrorizing bullies, but "peace & order keepers". And they do have enough resources and organization, to take out "desperados" one by one.

bushi said:

I believe that massive, yet peaceful demonstrations, are the only way forward.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I don't think talk will convince the psychopaths that rule over us to give up their power. They will continue to do what they do until they fear for their lives. I'm not promoting violence, but that is a fact.

People assume that our "elected" leaders are like us in some way, or that democracy exists (and I'm not saying democracy is a good thing even if it did exist), but it's not true. The government is a band of psychopathic criminals, and democracy is an illusion. Can you reason with the mafia?

I think the only way forward is to teach our children properly about true liberty and break the cycle of propaganda that is pushed in public schools.

scroll down to MaxOHMS:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=569062:
snip:

"Very soon, every American will be required to register their biological property (that's you and your children) in a national system designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging. By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will affect our security as a charge back for our fiat paper currency.

Every American will be forced to register or suffer being able to work and earn a living. They will be our chattels (property) and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions. Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading (Birth Certificate) to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, secured by their pledges.

They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and they will be none the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two should figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability. After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debts to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges.

This will inevitably reap us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a contributor to this fraud, which we will call "Social Insurance". Without realizing it, every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any hope for their redemption and we will employ the high office (presidency) of our dummy corporation (USA) to foment this plan against America."

Colonel Edward Mandell House is attributed (but unverified) with giving a very detailed outline of the plans to be implemented to enslave the American people. He stated, in a private meeting with Woodrow Wilson (President 1913 - 1921)

Jay, it's already implemented. They have been secretly cataloging the blood of every baby born since the 60s.

mike said:

Jay, it's already implemented. They have been secretly cataloging the blood of every baby born since the 60s.

Click to expand...

Mike, did you read the article? Not my quote?

The point I was trying to make was Max quoted thirty similar things that TPTB have been implementing.

Well, by now nothing here is OT, so here goes. This shows a way to turn all the wireless routers in your area into a mesh - for when they come for your internet.
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12...ro-to-ad-hoc-mesh-network-in-60-seconds-video

No, it won't bring Google back up after the zombies eat the servers, but things like this were what enabled Arab Spring to be as effective as it was despite "internet kill switches". Good insurance where it can be used, at least local comm will work well, and reasonably covertly.