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Old 10-12-2018, 09:17 PM   #1
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
The zombie Apocalypse will be when the rest of the world stops buying our debt ...
It seems inconceivable that this could come to pass, but damn if the neoconservatives aren't taking it as a personal challenge. I'm reminded of that scene in Robin Williams' horrible Popeye movie where the tax man is taxing everything imaginable before Popeye finally gets fed up and rebels. Sanctions, sanctions, swift. Sanctions, sanctions, swift.

I don't think I posted about it yet, but the business with this Khashoggi guy that the Saudi's purportedly assassinated in their embassy in Turkey on the order of the crown prince could end up being a significant inflection point in the US-Saudi relationship and consequently, the petrodollar.
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Old 10-15-2018, 09:47 AM   #2
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If they indeed assassinated this guy, and if they did so in their own embassy, then we will be right in sanctioning them. However, we will be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

Like it or not, we need their oil. We simply do not produce enough juice to sate our current thirst. That is a fact. Canada can give us some, we can supply a lot of the rest, but we need more. We simply are too fat and sassy for our own good right now. We refuse to carpool, we refuse to conserve, and we refuse to drive little cars like they do all over Europe. That is the truth of it.

We're addicted to Saudi oil.

When I was in Singapore, My buddies and I went across the causeway from Singapore to Malasia. We then got in to a little bitty "cab" called a Tuk-Tuk. This thing was little more than a moped pulling an enclosed cab behind it. He took us in to Johor Baru, where we could walk through the markets and eat mystery meat from street vendors and drink 12% beer in the open air.

These little Tuk Tuks were every where. So were mopeds. You rarely saw cars. If you saw a vehicle, it was a small truck, usually with a bunch of people sitting in benches in the back of it.

These people know all too well that the gas they use costs them 6 bucks a gallon, so they use it wisely. They further know it isn't produced in their country, and that every drop is imported.

The point of this rant is that while we fill up our Hummers with little or no thought as to where the fuel comes from, the geopolitical ramifications of what has happened in the past week or two will have ripple effects that plow through the economy if this isn't thought out in an extremely careful and thoughtful manner.
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Old 10-15-2018, 10:12 AM   #3
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It's not just Joe Sixpack's consumption of oil that is an issue. Our economy is built upon a trucking industry that depends upon oil. Our nation is a huge landmass.

For fun, I looked up a couple things:

Gas consumption in the USA apparently peaked in 2007 and has been more or less steady since:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...es-since-1992/

Quote :
In 2017, the United States imported approximately 10.14 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum from about 84 countries. Petroleum includes crude oil, hydrocarbon gas liquids, refined petroleum products such as gasoline and diesel fuel, and biofuels including ethanol and biodiesel. Crude oil accounted for about 79% of U.S. gross petroleum imports in 2017 and non-crude oil petroleum accounted for about 21% of gross petroleum imports.

In 2017, the United States exported about 6.38 MMb/d of petroleum to 186 countries, of which about 18% was crude oil and 82% was non-crude oil petroleum. The resulting net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum were about 3.77 MMb/d.

The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2017 were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, and Iraq.
...
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=727&t=6

That said, the bigger problem with punishing the Saudis is the threat of them selling their oil to the rest of the world in foreign currencies. Because if they can do it without the Libya treatment, the rest of the middle east will too. And at that point, the petrodollar system falls apart.

I suppose the silver lining would be that Americans finally wake up to the fraud that the Federal Reserve system has foisted upon us.
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:26 AM   #4
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Saudi Arabia going away from the petro dollar would break the fundamental agreement that keeps the Saud clan in power.

The US guarantees their position of control as long as they only sell their oil in US$.

While this could be threatened it would be game over if enacted.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:28 AM   #5
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The MIC is what keeps the House of Saud in power, that and nothing else. When the stream of weapons stops, only China or Russia can step in to the void to help, and even then, they would have to completely replace their entire weapons platforms. The Saudis purchase hundreds of billions in weapons and aircraft from us to protect themselves, and do so under a tacit agreement that they continue to provide an uninterrupted stream on Saudi oil and help keep the peace in the ME. In addition, they agree to help keep the price of oil relatively stable by being the worlds swing producer.
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:40 AM   #6
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Quote :
Saudi Arabia is considering saying that missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in a botched interrogation, according to media reports, an explanation that could deflect suspicions the royal court ordered him killed and give the U.S. and Turkey a way out of confronting a regional powerhouse.
...
More: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...um-middle-east

It looks to me like the USA does not want to push this envelope.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:25 PM   #7
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perhaps he should have read the nailgun instructions before using ........

Theres also some speculation that the whole thing is a false flag and that Kashoggi is alive and well ?

Its odd that the msm and the dems are getting involved.

Cui bono ?
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Old 10-16-2018, 09:08 PM   #8
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Khashoggi is dead (and reportedly dismembered and smuggled out of Turkey). It looks to me like the MSM and Dems are so blinded by Trump derangement syndrome that they will push against the administration's efforts to minimize this just to have another issue to castigate Trump without really thinking through the consequences of their efforts. I guarantee that if Obama were still POTUS, they would be playing ball in seeking some diplomatic resolution. It's a complete shit sandwich al around and the only real way out is for the Saudi King to renounce the Crown Prince and I don't see that happening.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:01 AM   #9
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from https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-thrones-heats

Quote :
In November 2017, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) ordered the arrest and detention at the Riyadh Ritz Carlton Hotel of over 200 members of the Saudi royal family, including eleven rival princes, as well as government ministers and influential businessmen. That came after an October 2017 meeting in Riyadh between MBS and Donald Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, conclave that lasted well into the early morning hours. At the meeting, Kushner is said to have turned over to MBS a list of the names of the Crown Prince’s opponents: leading figures of the Saudi royal house, government, and major businesses.The list may have also contained the name "Jamal Ahmad Khashoggi."

The list of Saudi names was, reportedly, compiled by Kushner from top secret special code word documents he had specifically requested from the National Security Agency (NSA) and Central Intelligence Agency. The documents were specifically requested by Kushner, not because he was an expert in communications intercepts, but because he likely had a control officer who told him what files to obtain. The Kushner family have longstanding ties to the Israeli Likud Party, as well as the Mossad intelligence service. The Mossad enjoys a close working relationship with the Saudi General Intelligence Directorate, which is now firmly committed to MBS after a previous purge of its upper ranks following MBS’s rise to the heir apparent position in the House of Saud.

Those on the list handed over to MBS by Kushner were all subjects of NSA and CIA communications intercepts of phone calls, video conferences, and emails. Kushner is said to have had a phone conversation with MBS a day before Khashoggi was murdered.


Or do Trumps opponents see an opportunity to blame him ?
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:00 AM   #10
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"The list may have also contained ..."

It would appear that ZH is just speculating at this point. I would think if there were any truth to this "deep state" resistance to the Trump administration, provable facts related to this would find its way into the hands of some Dem Senators.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:09 AM   #11
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Oh snap!

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Old 10-18-2018, 02:53 PM   #12
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We can't just turn away from Saudi Arabia, nor do I think we can definitively prove that MBS ordered that this guy be dismembered alive. However, someone pretty high up the food chain knew what was going to go down when sixteen guys boarded a G5 and flew out then immediately back to SA. Maybe it really was a botched interrogation, and shit got out of control. When you start cutting off a guys fingers, he's pretty much gonna tell whatever you want to fucking hear.....at least I would. For the love of Christ man, the word is they cut him up with a friggin bone saw while alive. That is as gruesome as it gets. Even the CIA doesn't let it go down like that.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:00 PM   #13
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Even more chilling ( for me anyway ) was the Pathologist putting his ear plugs in so he could listen to his music whilst sawing and a recommendation to the others that they do this too ....... music while you work ??? Clearly zero empathy for another human being.

wonder whats on his playlist
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
... Maybe it really was a botched interrogation, ...
Yeah, I don't think anyone is buying that. It's pretty clear that MBS ordered Khashoggi to be disappeared.

You know, the entire world changed in 1914 with the assassination of one dude (Franz Ferdinand). I don't think we see a world war over Khashoggi's death - at least not directly - but the ramifications of his death could have as much or more of a dramatic impact upon the world.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:00 PM   #15
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Can anyone explain why the dems showed no interest about finding out what happened to 4 Americans killed in our own embassy, but are in a lather about what happened to a foreigner, in a foreign embassy? I mean, they wouldn't be using a human death for political gain AND have ignored 4 murdered Americans getting killed cause it was inconvenient for them, would they?
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:45 AM   #16
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Yes 11C1P, it was covered up because it did not serve those in charge. Clearly the odd collateral loss is part of operating at that level and the risks are known to those who choose to operate at that level.

As I said, who benefits from the current response, because someone is instructing the msm to crank it up .........
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:08 AM   #17
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I would expect the Dems to be banging a drum because it is in line with their political objectives. What has puzzled me is the reaction from the neoconservatives that have been rabid to promote the KSA's agenda in the middle east since Iraq (trying to get the USA to invade Iran and Syria).

I can only surmise that Khashoggi might have been a CIA asset. He did have relationships with people of interest to US intelligence (Osama Bin Laden in the past, Saudi royal family and Saudi intelligence honcho in the present [more or less]). Khashoggi also lived in Virginia - not too far from Langley I would guess.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:51 PM   #18
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It ocurred to me that claiming that Kashoggi left the embassy 'alive' is possibly not too big a stretch

his heart still beating and brain synapses still firing ........ ok not necessarily in the same bag .........

Looking like the full story is going to come out, I guess those Saudi's have never really bothered to create cover stories so they are a bit amateurish, not what we would expect from a CIA/ MI6 operation that got exposed.

Perhaps they will in future send more of their operators to Langley for expert tuition ?
Its all good business and creates more jobs after all
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Old 10-22-2018, 01:33 PM   #19
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Between this and the migrant flood, I think we're looking at inside baseball of some sort. We were never supposed to know about this nobody guy Kashoggi in the first place. This shit was purposely leaked by the Turks, who have no special love for us any more. Two weeks ago, not one soul knew who this guy was. Even today, they have no idea who he is/was except that he lived somewhere in the states and was killed by Saudis, supposedly butchered alive, although that is not corroborated.

This whole thing smells, just like the caravan of illegals does. Where exactly are ten thousand people getting food, water and clothes? Where do they go to the toilet? None of them look like they have been missing any meals either. The people we should be letting in are the Venezuelans who we know for damn sure will never vote Dem or socialist again.
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:19 PM   #20
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Turkey keeps releasing facts from their investigative efforts. Saudi Arabian prosecutors now admit his murder was premeditated. Saudis are forced to revoke their travel ban and let Khashoggi's son and family leave Saudi Arabia. Will Americans (and the world) really let the Crown Prince off the hook for this? It's only a matter of time before hard evidence is secured that he ordered the hit - confirming what everyone in the world already knows.
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