ADVICE: Bars, Ounce-coins, or Rounds/junk silver? Which is best in a SHTF scenario?

[Casey Jones]

Okay...I'm buying.

But, WHAT.

Background: The Tooth Fairy delivered me about $10k. Expensive tooth. But there she left it, under my pillow...no, the check didn't bounce.

It's in a bank right now. Yeah, I'm a d@mn-fool.

That's why I have to move. Seems the controlled implosion of Global Finance is underway, with the target-in-sights, being UBS. When that goes down, perhaps it all will. Or perhaps, worse, it'll all be locked down - fer yer own good, dontcha know.

I have fiat enough in the underwear drawer to last a couple of months. I don't want more.

I have my comfortable ration of gold. Gold, as so many have correctly said, is not for TSHTF - it's for Afterwards. I'm now concerned with getting THROUGH what chaos Davos Man has planned..

My choices are, bars - 1, 10, 100-oz; silver one-oz rounds/coins; and junk silver/"dime bags." There's advantages to all of them.

I have bars enough, and 10-oz bars are easy mid-level value units.

BUT. There's the emotional aspect - people don't instinctively WANT bars. They like coins.

One-ounce coins, I have - several sleeves' worth. Beautiful things. Hard to get with the idea of giving them for eggs, even if I'm hungry.

Junk silver. I have a couple of bags of those. But those present problems:

--They have denominations on them. Gonna be a hard sell to a rube in economic meltdown, to get him to take a quarter for $20 worth of eggs and beef. I don't know if that's a false concern, or not.

--Coin-clipping. Those things are mostly pretty worn - it's why they're called "junk." Wear varies, but unless the bag is sold by weight (it may be; been a decade since I bought junk rounds) I'm likely to wind up short. And others may not like it.

I can go any direction, or all directions. Like to hear thoughts, of which, and how much of each.

 

[pmbug]

Before positing an answer, let me ask about your expectations for a SHTF future. What do you expect to happen? That would be informative of potential need/utility.

 

[Casey Jones]

Before positing an answer, let me ask about your expectations for a SHTF future. What do you expect to happen? That would be informative of potential need/utility.

No expectations. If we have a nuclear cross-fire attack, I'm not far from the silos at Great Falls. I'm done.

What I expect, is more like Klaus' Grate Reset contraction. CBDCs may or may not be forced on us; but dollars in banks will be dollars lost. CBDCs will be programmed to ration out wholesome food.

So the silver is to pay the butcher, the baker, the black-market maker.

If it happens another way, it won't matter. If the Yellow Menace (to use a 1940s historical term) overruns us, it won't matter; my stacks will be stolen and I'll be food for Klaus's beloved bugs.

But, yeah. I am planning for a world of extreme scarcity where fiat-dollars are worthless, and we're all busy trying to find things to trade with, value-for-value.

 

[pmbug]

If I understand you correctly, your scenario includes a functional power grid and internet, correct?

 

[Casey Jones]

Probably not.

Any experimentation with bitcoin is for alternate crisis-points.

I'm thinking of something along the lines of V-E Day...where cigarettes, or candy, were used as trade for essential foodstuffs. Where people are desperate; and nobody wants dollars because it's become obvious, dollars are just paper.

How that unfolds, I don't know. But of all the potential EOTWAWKI scenarios, about half of them have me dead or some sort of prisoner. I'm thinking money-crash and governmental failure. Not necessarily local order; but banks padlocked, ATMs dead, credit-cards useless, etc.

 

[Viking]

Casey, take a road trip and come check out what I’m building. Off grid. Not close to any nuke targets.

 

[pmbug]

The reason I asked about power/internet is because I don't expect that 90% silver is going to be very liquid without it. Most folk today don't know about it, much less be able to calculate a fair value for it based upon silver content. Given the parameters you presented, I would probably choose 1 toz ingots, rounds or ASEs.

 

[Casey Jones]

The reason I asked about power/internet is because I don't expect that 90% silver is going to be very liquid without it. Most folk today don't know about it, much less be able to calculate a fair value for it based upon silver content. Given the parameters you presented, I would probably choose 1 toz ingots, rounds or ASEs.

Well, that raises a few questions.

The grid down, bitcoin is useless. Modern banking is impossible, since MOST dollars are digitized. There won't be nearly enough paper fiat to hold even a local economy up. And that's IF people want paper fiat.

Gold, as mentioned, is not for TSHTF. It's useless there; both in practicality and that non-gold-bugs will see it as useless. In that moment they'd be right. Gold is for the rebuilding.

And you say silver is not likely to work. Now, I'm not trolling, but I'd love to hear why.

 

[Casey Jones]

Casey, take a road trip and come check out what I’m building. Off grid. Not close to any nuke targets.

I should. Lord knows I have the time.

If you're serious, send a PM. This is something I have to think about, because this abscess that is Globalism, seems to be coming to a pus-filled head.

 

[pmbug]

...
And you say silver is not likely to work. Now, I'm not trolling, but I'd love to hear why.

I said 90% silver. "Junk" silver. I already explained why I think that. Without the internet to help calculate silver value, I don't think most people will want it. I could be wrong.

 

[Casey Jones]

I said 90% silver. "Junk" silver. I already explained why I think that. Without the internet to help calculate silver value, I don't think most people will want it. I could be wrong.

That'll teach me to quickly scan...

I didn't catch the "90 percent" part. Okay, when you add in figuring the value of silver in old currency...plus, a percentage of the population that doesn't even KNOW about silver in old coins...that makes sense.

 

[Casey Jones]

So that leaves me with, coins or bars.

Round or square...round or square...pie are square. I'll want pie...

 

[Ttazzman]

LOL..... different minds = different opinions.....and from the aspect of having every kind

90% (junk) silver would be my "go to" in a utilitarian role, barter, etc

i have never experienced a environment where you could not get silver value or more from 90% ......and in my opinion its the go too for fractional transactions....also of the opinion that people will learn to count what ever "money" they are bartering in very quickly

certainly as the transactions become larger .999 coins/bars etc become more practical as long as your in a full unit environment and dont need fractional

for basic wealth storage i dont think the form makes a whole lot of difference as the melting pot does not discriminate

obviously in todays environment some forms are easier and more desirable to buyers such as ASE's and 90% ...and some forms are less practically afforable such as large bars

as my "stacking" has matured over the years i still will buy about anything but just because of space concerns i am steering twards 10oz stacker bars but that isnt what i would consider the most utilitarian form to sell

no one knows the future so all in all i would probably go for the best (lowest) premium in a common form and let that be my guide

.

 

[Vichris]

I'm with Tazz on this. And pretty much for the same reasons he lists above. Junk would be my first choice. Followed by 1oz silver rounds. Nothing more than 10 oz. There's really only 3 denominations you need to concern yourself with when thinking about junk. . Dimes, quarters, and half dollars. I've got it in my head that a dime in todays $$ is worth about $2-3, a quarter is $5-7, and a half dollar about $10-13. As Tazz said no one knows what's coming our way but I'm looking for what I think will be easiest to barter. Truth be known,.....Everyone here is way ahead of the game, especially if you've been stacking for a decade or more and have been doing so as a hedge. If you're debt free even better.

 

[Viking]

Whatever you get, I don’t charge for storage in my vault. And that offer is good for anyone here.

 

[pmbug]

To be clear, I own 90% junk. I like 90% junk. I'm just not sure that in a full blown no power grid no internet apocalypse, your local economy is going to value coins that they don't understand. In scenarios where folks want to barter silver and the power grid and internet are available to verify weights and values, I think 90% would be king.

 

[Wellsburg]

My pile of SHTF barter material includes 90% dimes, quarters, and halves. Plus many rounds of .22, .40, .45, .223, 9MM, 30-06, and 12 GA. which may actually be better trade material than silver coins.

I am afraid that some people may be afraid of generic silver bars due to Chinese fakes. (And the guy I am bartering with may not have the skill or knowledge to test a silver bar.)

 

[Casey Jones]

Whatever you get, I don’t charge for storage in my vault. And that offer is good for anyone here.

That's mighty white of you...

 

[Casey Jones]

Well...since you're all wondering...I bought one-oz coins.

One hundred of them, refined by Sunshine Minting. Just down the road in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

I enquired as to junk quarters. The shop was selling them for about $5 apiece, whereas the agreed current trading price for them was about $4 - $4.25. Hell of a lot of vigorish.

That didn't really even dent my Tooth Fairy bonanza...I may buy a couple of k-rands, later this week. Have to think about it.

Consider which will be better once we get into Covid-23 perma-lockdown, and I lose my home and my pension because I won't take the Wonder-Jab...

 

[Goldhedge]

www.coinflation.com
is a good resource for what silver value exists in junk...

 

[Ttazzman]

www.coinflation.com
is a good resource for what silver value exists in junk...

im sure this croud knows the calcs but never hurts to repeat it ...... but its as simple as .715 times spot price ...gives you the silver value per dollar face value of 90%......or if your estimating on the fly just think less than 3/4 of spot price

 

[BeefJerky]

I said 90% silver. "Junk" silver. I already explained why I think that. Without the internet to help calculate silver value, I don't think most people will want it. I could be wrong.

When I see silver accepted by a merchant it is usually them listing prices for their stuff in pre 65 US coin. So I'm not sure why you say that.

 

[pmbug]

You must live somewhere where people are savvy about precious metals. I'm in the burbs on the outskirts of Houston, Texas and I've never seen a merchant anywhere around here that listed wares for sale in silver, much less 90%. I shared my thoughts based upon my local experience. It might be fun to get a camera and microphone and do some "man on the street" surveying of random people to see if they knew about 90% or could determine its current value, but I suspect I would have less success finding people in the greater Houston area than Mark Dice has in California finding people who know the value of an ounce of gold.

 

[BackwardsEngineer]

I have fiat enough in the underwear drawer to last a couple of months. I don't want more.

Ok, this one statement needs to be noodled long and hard... understand the room, pm's yeah and dollars booo hiss...

What in the heck is wrong with cash? The bug mentions interviewing feet on the street for recognition of pm's value, well I'm pretty certain 99% of potential candidates know green backs. Every store, every single one that I have encountered takes cash. On sunny days, cloudy days, power on, power off, stocks up, stocks down. During my days of International missionary travel, banks insolvent or not trusted, everyone bartering... cash was still king, and USD rather than local was highly sought after. Each trip to Liberia in 2003 to 2008, people approached me wanting to trade 90% for cash. After serious consult with our leaders I was given the green light to swap any remaining cash for well worn pre 64.


Two months on hand...? My wife and I would freak, I keep one month in a secret stash in my car for emergencies, pre pay our utilities 2 years in advance, so two months ...

Diminishing value.. yes those usd are depreciating much like the sands in the hour glass, these are the days of our lives and will greatly depreciate in a shtf scenario. People will still know and use cash dollars, true death of physical cash will take far longer than digital destruction. Can't go to any flea market or gun show in SC without seeing some confederate dollars on a table being swapped for USD.. 160 year old dead currency...

Pm's are great, but for a long time cash will keep you going during a shtf scenario.. Also not enough lead in the world to protect you if the thundering hoards think you have an Ag stash... if you ever whip out some Au other than in an incredibly secure situation, you will number your days...

The information is out there...
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum...ps-from-sarajevo-100-items-to-disappear-first

 

[Casey Jones]

What's wrong with cash? First, it doesn't store well. Our true inflation/price-rise rate is over 20 percent, now.

So if I store $10,000 today, I have less than $8k buying power in a year.

Compare that to gold, which over the last 20 years...over all of human history...has HELD its value.

Second...how LONG will people want those dollars. You say, a long time. I've heard estimates given, as short as a week.

I figure, two months, give or take. Once even the rubes realize, dollars aren't buying anything, they'll want things they themselves would buy - barter. And then, slowly, they'll rediscover what real money is. Precious metals or other non-duplicatable items that will have value even after the country collapses.

So, I have about three months' worth of income in cash, buried in the cookie jar.

 

[Casey Jones]

Can't go to any flea market or gun show in SC without seeing some confederate dollars on a table being swapped for USD.. 160 year old dead currency...

That's not value in currency.

That's a collector's item. Basically, a luxury good. Indicative of disposable income and a secure place to hold it for whatever satisfaction it offers.

Demand for such items will disappear, once we get into the privation/famine stage.

 

[BackwardsEngineer]

What's wrong with cash? First, it doesn't store well. Our true inflation/price-rise rate is over 20 percent, now.

So if I store $10,000 today, I have less than $8k buying power in a year.

Compare that to gold, which over the last 20 years...over all of human history...has HELD its value.

Second...how LONG will people want those dollars. You say, a long time. I've heard estimates given, as short as a week.

I figure, two months, give or take. Once even the rubes realize, dollars aren't buying anything, they'll want things they themselves would buy - barter. And then, slowly, they'll rediscover what real money is. Precious metals or other non-duplicatable items that will have value even after the country collapses.

So, I have about three months' worth of income in cash, buried in the cookie jar.

cj, you are freaking out.. if you were so certain of the answer why did you ask the question? You're not going to be much fun post teotwawki, not that it will matter if we truly reach privation/famine singles will rapidly be devoured by the rubes smart enough to team up to hunt.

 

[Casey Jones]

I answered the question because I thought it was worth answering.

No, I'm not dead-solid certain of my decisions. I'm willing to talk them out, and maybe learn something.

But I'm not quick to reverse opinions, either. I come to opinions deliberately; and I change them even more slowly. As opposed to some people, unduly influenced by the last person they talked to.

No fun in EOTWAWKI? Maybe not. Probably not. I do have a caustic personality...but I yam what I yam; I can't help it at this late date. But right now I'm not carrying the label Happy Warrior - nor can I; it's not in my makeup.

 

[Goldhedge]

It might be fun to get a camera and microphone and do some "man on the street" surveying of random people to see if they knew about 90% or could determine its current value, but I suspect I would have less success finding people in the greater Houston area than Mark Dice has in California finding people who know the value of an ounce of gold.

I'd take the Snickers....

 

[Ttazzman]

cash is a tool......that has many uses....its been my experience that used correctly those uses benefits can far exceed any potential loss due to inflation

when you start viewing cash as a tool instead of a wealth measuring stick you will become enlightened

today i am converting some cash into food services (deer processing for the freezer)
tommorow i am converting some Hay in the barn into cash

point is (small example) i will gain on each transaction, i maintained cash levels, by the time that cash moves around many times in one year the gain far exceeds any inflation buying power loss

 

[BackwardsEngineer]

cash is a tool......that has many uses....its been my experience that used correctly those uses benefits can far exceed any potential loss due to inflation

when you start viewing cash as a tool instead of a wealth measuring stick you will become enlightened

today i am converting some cash into food services (deer processing for the freezer)
tommorow i am converting some Hay in the barn into cash

point is (small example) i will gain on each transaction, i maintained cash levels, by the time that cash moves around many times in one year the gain far exceeds any inflation buying power loss

tazz,
you got it buddy! Keep moving it, using it, spending it and squirreling something away..

 

[CopperSilverGold]

That's not value in currency.

That's a collector's item. Basically, a luxury good. Indicative of disposable income and a secure place to hold it for whatever satisfaction it offers.

Demand for such items will disappear, once we get into the privation/famine stage.

Exactly...no different from baseball cards, postage stamps, Beanie Babies, vinyl records, etc.

 

[Vichris]

I'd take the Snickers....

Actually I think it was a Hershey bar. I'm willing to admit I missed a snickers bar if he ever offered one.

 

[Vichris]

You must live somewhere where people are savvy about precious metals. I'm in the burbs on the outskirts of Houston, Texas and I've never seen a merchant anywhere around here that listed wares for sale in silver, much less 90%. I shared my thoughts based upon my local experience. It might be fun to get a camera and microphone and do some "man on the street" surveying of random people to see if they knew about 90% or could determine its current value, but I suspect I would have less success finding people in the greater Houston area than Mark Dice has in California finding people who know the value of an ounce of gold.

Been my experience that in the past 2-3 years A LOT more people are buying/learning PM's. My guess is that gold especially is being advertised everywhere you look these days. My grown kids and other family member are openly calling and asking questions. I regularly hear people make remarks about hoarding metals,...... gold silver and lead (ammo). Plus I think enough people have seen Mark Dice making fools of people grabbing a candy bar over a 10/100 oz silver bar. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Casey Jones]

Metals are being pushed, no question. My take is, it's the tail end of a market - the awake middle-class prole saw what was going on, saw where it would probably lead, and shifted over into PMs as he could. OUT of that, arose a large infrastructure of metal dealers and distributors - it was suddenly profitable, as it never had been before. We'd never had a gold rush like this...gold being only legal for open ownership since 1975. And from then to 2000, it was in a doldrums, as the excitement was around fiat instruments and interest received.

So, now, the rush is over. The case for PM ownership is stronger than ever, but MOST people who WOULD be buying, HAVE bought. The stupes who haven't, mostly won't. Too many people who're learning late, don't have the money to move into PMs. And of course there's the tech types, all excited about crypto-fiat. They won't discover the problem with e-scrip tied to an Internet network, until it's far too late.

So. What does this mean for the spot price in metals? Don't know. It may be harder to sell/exchange, as many retail marketing outlets close. If government is the only broker for gold, and government malfeasance - debasing the currency - is why we have to own gold...we're in trouble.

I don't have an answer to this. It seems like there's really no way forward.

 

[nickndfl]

PMs are a safer bet than old jukeboxes and barber chairs. The PM markets are so small it only takes a small percentage of new buyers to impact the market.

 

[CopperSilverGold]

im sure this croud knows the calcs but never hurts to repeat it ...... but its as simple as .715 times spot price ...gives you the silver value per dollar face value of 90%......or if your estimating on the fly just think less than 3/4 of spot price

Another quick and easy calculation is $1.40 of junk silver is roughly 1-oz of silver.

 

[searcher]

This is the first of a series of vids by Yankee Stacking on bartering with PMs. If you're interested in watching the series here's the link to his channel https://www.youtube.com/@YankeeStacking/videos.

I found this vid interesting as he didn't go "teotwawki," and did mention digital payments so maybe the series will be worth following.

Is Bartering with Silver REALLY Possible? I'M ABOUT TO FIND OUT!​

11:22

________________________________________

As for me, I've been hearing / reading about "teotwawki" and the collapse of civilization for a long time. Just my opinion but if that ever occurs, I don't think anyone will be trading PMs for anything. It would be things of useful value for other things of useful value. Your time and labor for food. One type of food stuff for another, etc.

And one thing to consider is that no matter what you paid for something, no matter what you believe something you have is worth, any commodity is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it.

It's already been said above, but most people have no clue as to PMs. Go to a store and watch how people pay for things. Plastic and their phone. Once in a blue moon you'll see cash.

jm2c

 

[nickndfl]

Junk is the best. Already been used as money and not many counterfeits.

 

[Casey Jones]

This is the first of a series of vids by Yankee Stacking on bartering with PMs. If you're interested in watching the series here's the link to his channel https://www.youtube.com/@YankeeStacking/videos.

I found this vid interesting as he didn't go "teotwawki," and did mention digital payments so maybe the series will be worth following.

​

________________________________________

As for me, I've been hearing / reading about "teotwawki" and the collapse of civilization for a long time. Just my opinion but if that ever occurs, I don't think anyone will be trading PMs for anything. It would be things of useful value for other things of useful value. Your time and labor for food. One type of food stuff for another, etc.

And one thing to consider is that no matter what you paid for something, no matter what you believe something you have is worth, any commodity is only worth what someone is willing to give you for it.

It's already been said above, but most people have no clue as to PMs. Go to a store and watch how people pay for things. Plastic and their phone. Once in a blue moon you'll see cash.

jm2c

The answer to all those questions is, "yes."

Yes, to barter. Yes to the Favor Bank.

What do you do when you want, say, some cheese; and the guy making cheese instead of selling milk, doesn't want anything you have or can do? That's where some sort of money comes into play.

You try to keep the cost down as much as possible. Maybe someone you know can fix his generator, and you can do the repair-guy's roof. Maybe the cheese man will take an IOU.

Maybe, for lack of options, FRNs will be traded around - heavily discounted, of course, but a sort of simple economy. Five $100s for a loaf of cheese.

If he wants none of that, and you need that cheese, for whatever reason...out come the silver rounds.