Death Spiral States (Forbes)

[pmbug]

A writer at Forbes Magazine has identified a phenomenon called the “death spiral states.” Sounds intimidating, right? Fox Business Network’s Melissa Francis broke down what you need to know on America Live today.

The category includes 11 states where private sector workers are outnumbered by people who are dependent on the government. That number would include state workers, and people who are receiving welfare or pension. For example, in California the ratio of “takers versus makers” is bigger than one. If you own a software company that employs 100 people, you’re supporting 139 other people in the state who are on the “takers” list.

Credit worthiness was the second factor worked into this equation. To calculate that, Forbes looked into large debts, uncompetitive business climate, weak home prices and unemployment trends for each state.
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More (incl. video): http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/11/2...-state-and-if-so-what-should-you-do-about-it/

 

[mike]

Interesting. I wonder how it compares to Europe.

 

[DCFusor]

Wonder how long before one of the larger ones needs a "no one could see this coming" bailout from the inept federal government and destroys the national budget even further?

It's obviously a matter of when, not if.

 

[ancona]

Remember, these are just the states that have crossed the 1:1 ratio of producers vs takers. I'm sure a close look at the rest of the numbers would induce nausea as well.

 

[DSAbug]

I'm curious how they determined state employment numbers too. I am sure there are plenty of people that are working for private companies that have publicly funded projects.

 

[benjamen]

What happens when the productive workers start leaving your state...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-s...1lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QDVGVzdF9BRkM-;_ylv=3

The highest rate of people leaving...
1) New Jersey
2) Illinois

 

[benjamen]

What happens when the productive companies start leaving your state...
http://www.kcra.com/news/Prop-30-sp...280580525":"og.recommends"}&action_ref_map=[]

"It’s all part of a campaign launched by one of California’s neighboring states, the day after Proposition 30 passed, which triggered billions of dollars in new taxes.

And now, a growing number of Californians are saying, “Arizona, here we come.”

California chief executives have been arriving since January at Phoenix’s Sky Harbor Airport, eager to relocate their companies and bring thousands of new jobs to Arizona."

 

[pmbug]

... and the media keeps pushing the NJ governor as a potential candidate for POTUS. :loco:

 

[benjamen]

New book that looks at the relationship between state tax rates and the movement of large amounts of money/income from 1995-2010:
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/02/st...ed:+aei-ideas/economics+(AEIdeas+»+Economics)

"1. The nine states with no personal income taxes gained $146 billion.

2. The nine states with the highest personal income taxes lost $107 billion.

3. The 10 states with the lowest per capita state tax burden gained $70 billion.

4. The 10 states with the highest per capita state tax burden lost $139 billion."


"Incentives matter. Taxes may not be the sole reason Americans moved $2 trillion of their AGI between the states, but there is a clear and unmistakable pattern here: Incomes moved to where taxes were lower."

 

[bushi]

Now, that is a fecking surprise, isn't it! People appear to prefer to be fucked less, by the Powers that Be (imagine!). No doubt, another candidate for the long-overdue for creation, government's Department of the Bleeding Obvious. I mean, it has been demonstrated COUNTLESS times, that over time, when they increase taxation, they actually collect less revenue money - you know, "substitution bias", works not only in CPI - people tend to substitute over-taxed goods, even with inferior, but less tax-burdened products. End prices, you know, and that whole free-market thing.

I wonder, to how much a degree the fact that a kid can buy Ecstasy tablets in any stinking disco, cheaper than a bottle of beer (70% price of which consists of taxes/duties/excises, whatever you call them) - and I cannot think about a drug dealer, that would ask him/her for their proof of legal age - does it perhaps have something to do with the frightening statistics of drug use by minors?

Too obvious, too "in your face", too politically incorrect, to unpleasant truth to listen to, to even talk about? Well, let's stick our heads in the sand, and bear the consequences later. That "always works", doesn't it?

I wonder, is there a snowball chance in hell, that these motherfuckers in governments, around the globe, will actually start doing their fucking jobs, and (for a change), start passing laws dictated by the REASON, and debate & convince people to the harsh, but absolutely necessary ones - instead of spoon-feeding them bullshit all the time!!!

GOSH!!!

 

[rblong2us]

blimey bushi, have you been hanging out with Ancona ?

I might have to invest in a rantometer (-;

 

[bushi]

blimey bushi, have you been hanging out with Ancona ?

well, you know, I get my share of daily frustration(s) from some people myself, and I am telling you, these who give me these grievances are most certainly not Anconas of this world, that is for sure!

:wave:

 

[Cybrsk8r]

Hmmm. Interesting. Some of the states on the list are surprising. CA, MS, AL, and NY I can understand. Even OH, IL, and KY. But ME, and HI surprise me.

Also surprising which states AREN'T on the list. I espected MD and VA to be on it because of large numbers of federal employees living there and commuting into DC. FL is also a surprise due to large numbers of retirees drawing social security.

 

[Internallydisplaced]

But ME, and HI surprise me.

People from Away (as they say in Maine) probably don't realize it but Maine has the oldest average age of any state in the country. It is 42.7, which is something like two years higher then Florida. That is a lot of social security checks. Funny enough there is a fairly high state income tax there, but social security is exempt, tells you who votes.

ID