Explain to me why Israel has no right to exist.
- Thread starter foolsgold
- Start date
Welcome to the Precious Metals Bug Forums
Welcome to the PMBug forums - a community supported watering hole for folks interested in gold, silver, precious metals, sound money, investing, market and economic news, central bank monetary policies, politics and more.
Register a free account to join the discussions. When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including access to market data/charts and additional members only rooms (including one for trade/barter with the community).
- Messages
- 21,898
- Reaction score
- 12,446
- Points
- 288
GROK
Key Events and Timeline:
- 610 CE: The religion began when the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him in Islamic tradition) received the first revelation from God (Allah) through the angel Gabriel (Jibril) in the cave of Hira, near Mecca (in present-day Saudi Arabia). This first revelation was the beginning of the Quran, specifically the first verses of Surah Al-Alaq (96:1-5): "Read in the name of your Lord who created..."
- 610–613 CE: Muhammad started preaching the message privately to his close family and friends.
- 613 CE: He began preaching publicly in Mecca, calling people to worship only one God (Tawhid), abandon idolatry, and live righteously.
- 622 CE: The Hijra (migration) to Medina marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar (Year 1 AH - Anno Hegirae). This event is very important because it established the first Muslim community (ummah) with political and social structure.
- 632 CE: Prophet Muhammad passed away after completing the revelation of the Quran and unifying most of Arabia under Islam.
- Founding year: 610 CE (first revelation)
- Official establishment as a community: 622 CE (Hijra)
- Full consolidation: By 632 CE
Judaism is the oldest of the Abrahamic religions, with roots tracing back nearly 4,000 years. However, its "beginning" depends on the perspective—traditional religious view versus historical and scholarly consensus—because it evolved gradually from ancient Israelite/Yahwistic practices rather than starting on a single dramatic day like the first revelation in Islam.Traditional Jewish PerspectiveAccording to Jewish tradition (as found in the Torah/Tanakh and rabbinic sources):
- Judaism traces its origins to the covenant God made with Abraham (the first Hebrew/patriarch) around 2000–1800 BCE (roughly 4,000 years ago). Abraham is seen as the founder who rejected idolatry and entered into a special relationship with the one God, promising descendants and the land of Canaan.
history.com
- The religion was formalized at Mount Sinai around 1312–1300 BCE (traditional dating), when Moses received the Torah (including the Ten Commandments and the full law) after the Exodus from Egypt. This event established the core practices, laws, and monotheistic worship for the Israelites (the ancestors of the Jewish people).
chabad.org
- Iron Age I (c. 1200–1000 BCE): The religion of the early Israelites emerged as a branch of ancient Canaanite religion, shifting toward worship of Yahweh (YHWH) as the primary (or national) God—initially monolatry (worship of one God while acknowledging others might exist) rather than strict monotheism.
- Monarchy period (c. 1000–586 BCE): Yahweh became the central deity of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, with growing emphasis on exclusive worship, influenced by prophets.
- Babylonian Exile (586 BCE) and Persian period (after 538 BCE): The destruction of the First Temple and exile were pivotal. Many scholars see "Judaism" (as distinct from earlier Israelite religion) beginning to take shape here or in the early Persian period (5th–4th century BCE), when the Torah was compiled/edited, widespread observance of its laws was promoted (e.g., under Ezra around 444 BCE), and a more defined monotheistic identity as "Jews" (from the kingdom of Judah) emerged.
britannica.com
- Hellenistic and Hasmonean period (2nd century BCE onward): Some recent archaeological studies suggest that full, widespread adherence to Torah laws and practices (what we recognize as classical Judaism) became common among ordinary people only during or after the Maccabean/Hasmonean era (mid-2nd century BCE).
youtube.com
Rabbinic (or classical) Judaism, which forms the basis of most modern Jewish practice (including the Talmud and synagogue-centered worship), developed after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE.Summary of Key Dates
- ~2000–1800 BCE: Traditional founding with Abraham's covenant.
- ~1300 BCE: Traditional giving of the Torah at Sinai (core revelation).
- c. 1200–1000 BCE: Emergence of distinct Israelite/Yahwistic religion (scholarly roots).
- 6th–5th century BCE: Transition to post-exilic "Judaism" with Torah-centric identity.
- 2nd century BCE–1st century CE: Widespread Torah observance and development of rabbinic foundations.
- Messages
- 728
- Reaction score
- 926
- Points
- 268
Incase people don't know CE stands for common era. BCE before common era.
These terms came from the woke culture to erase Jesus from the lexicon.
en.wikipedia.org
These terms came from the woke culture to erase Jesus from the lexicon.
Anno Domini - Wikipedia
unbeknownst to some peoples, everyone has a right to exist
Especially the Palestinians...
This is the propagandist's technique - rephrase the question to make the aggressor seem a bully.
NO ONE is arguing that the people of Israel don't have a right to exist. Israel's legitimacy as a nation-state is a separate question - but one that was closed 75 years ago. Israel IS. No rational person is arguing that it should be obliterated.
That it has the right to endless subsidies from the United States, is another question; and if we were considering it rationally, the answer would be, HELL-NO. As a new state formed under the sponsorship of various American NGOs, and with the promise of alliance and military assistance, the nascent nation may have been worth foreign aid. BUT NOT FOREVER.
And as a supposed ally, and a de facto client state, it is showing exceedingly bad manners and bad form, lo these last 25-odd years. Its subjugation of individual American office-holders, through PAC donations, SHOULD be setting off alarm bells all over the place - re-examination of campaign-donation and PAC laws; examination of those individuals (MOST incumbents) who are receiving de-facto bribery income streams from a foreign governmnent...smells like Treason to me, boss.
And where does that nation-state GET that money? FROM THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. AUTHORIZED by the same legislative body that has most of its members, BRIBED this way. THAT is an ACT OF WAR.
And what comes of it? We're seeing it. Nuttin' Yahoo sez JUMP, and whatever President is in office, obediently jumps. Now, the crazed Moar-War zionists of the Israeli Deep State seem to think that a nuclear Armageddon is Yaweh's will.
I don't think so. I don't think crazed nihilists controlling a nuclear CLIENT STATE have a right to anything other than to have such destruction placed on their own heads, their own children and lands.
(mic drop)
NO ONE is arguing that the people of Israel don't have a right to exist. Israel's legitimacy as a nation-state is a separate question - but one that was closed 75 years ago. Israel IS. No rational person is arguing that it should be obliterated.
That it has the right to endless subsidies from the United States, is another question; and if we were considering it rationally, the answer would be, HELL-NO. As a new state formed under the sponsorship of various American NGOs, and with the promise of alliance and military assistance, the nascent nation may have been worth foreign aid. BUT NOT FOREVER.
And as a supposed ally, and a de facto client state, it is showing exceedingly bad manners and bad form, lo these last 25-odd years. Its subjugation of individual American office-holders, through PAC donations, SHOULD be setting off alarm bells all over the place - re-examination of campaign-donation and PAC laws; examination of those individuals (MOST incumbents) who are receiving de-facto bribery income streams from a foreign governmnent...smells like Treason to me, boss.
And where does that nation-state GET that money? FROM THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. AUTHORIZED by the same legislative body that has most of its members, BRIBED this way. THAT is an ACT OF WAR.
And what comes of it? We're seeing it. Nuttin' Yahoo sez JUMP, and whatever President is in office, obediently jumps. Now, the crazed Moar-War zionists of the Israeli Deep State seem to think that a nuclear Armageddon is Yaweh's will.
I don't think so. I don't think crazed nihilists controlling a nuclear CLIENT STATE have a right to anything other than to have such destruction placed on their own heads, their own children and lands.
(mic drop)
Ah, pardon me, I do not believe Israel should exist if they have to steal from me. Obliterate israel now. Are we clear now.
I dealt with that.
They have zero right to be subsidized by our wealth.
And since they're no more able to get along with others than any other Semite tribal groups...I say, let them spend their last shekels buying munitions, to kill each other with.
Then they're no longer a problem. Some people are just not ready for civilization. Either for poor impulse control, like the Africans, or moral vacuousness, like the Semites.
Viking
Yellow Jacket
1) Not a religion
2) when homos evolved (devolved?) into pedos
- Messages
- 44,219
- Reaction score
- 7,519
- Points
- 288
- Messages
- 728
- Reaction score
- 926
- Points
- 268
From google....
In 2022, the U.S. provided significant foreign aid, with Ukraine leading as the top recipient ($12.4 billion), followed by Israel, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, and Jordan. Sub-Saharan Africa received the largest regional share, with funding focused on humanitarian assistance, health programs, and security.
In 2022, the U.S. provided significant foreign aid, with Ukraine leading as the top recipient ($12.4 billion), followed by Israel, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, and Jordan. Sub-Saharan Africa received the largest regional share, with funding focused on humanitarian assistance, health programs, and security.
- Messages
- 44,219
- Reaction score
- 7,519
- Points
- 288
***Disclaimer: First and foremost I have no dog in this fight. I believe everyone has a right to exist and a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
But not at the expense of my rights. And some of what I consider to be my rights are
- free or low cost medical care
- a national pension plan that I've paid in to being solvent
- good medical care for veterans at a place of their choice
- low cost housing for those who need it
- a decent living for all American citizens
- etc
Now, until all this is done, I do not believe we should give one red cent to anyone or any country on the planet. America first.
- https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-... maintain its Qualitative Military Edge (QME).
- U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East: Historical, Recent Trends, and the FY2024 Background Request
- https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-us-military-spending-8e6e5033f7a1334bf6e35f86e7040e14
- https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...-wars-in-the-middle-east-and-afghanistan-cost
But not at the expense of my rights. And some of what I consider to be my rights are
- free or low cost medical care
- a national pension plan that I've paid in to being solvent
- good medical care for veterans at a place of their choice
- low cost housing for those who need it
- a decent living for all American citizens
- etc
Now, until all this is done, I do not believe we should give one red cent to anyone or any country on the planet. America first.
- https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-... maintain its Qualitative Military Edge (QME).
- U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East: Historical, Recent Trends, and the FY2024 Background Request
- https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-us-military-spending-8e6e5033f7a1334bf6e35f86e7040e14
- https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025...-wars-in-the-middle-east-and-afghanistan-cost
Off-topic Warning...I gotta push back.
Your rights, my rights, end at the imposition of others. NO ONE has the right to the fruits of my labors.
Meaning, of course, you, or I, do not have the "right" to the services of others - such as "medical care" which means the labor of a health practitioner or hospital bed. Not the right to their free labor and not the right to expect it paid by others.
Likewise a "national pension plan." I have no right to retire off the labor of others. Now one can argue, with some validity, that a decent society has the duty to ensure that the infirm and elderly not be left in destitution when circumstances lead to it.
That was the argument behind Roosevelt's Welfare State, and we see where that has led us. To 40 million aliens "working" Learing Centres. To say nothing of the millions of AFDC Welfare Queens we've seen across four generations.
The right we have, is that of a stable, open economy - that allows enterprise, does not put a Regulatory State in the way of creation of new enterprise/businesses to offer products and services.
PLUS - and this is important - SOUND MONEY, so that the fruits of your labor can be saved in a meaningful way, in a bank that is regulated - minimally, but firmly - to prevent criminal activity within that bank to rob depositors of their monies.
These I support, as even an Austrian economic student would. NOT government handouts, or "guarantees" of pensions that turn a national-pension plan into Ponzi Security.
- Messages
- 728
- Reaction score
- 926
- Points
- 268
With all the money they piss away giving to NGO's nothing would be accomplished. Just more BS like feeding the woke machine.
Hummmm…
I must be one of the only peoples that supports most US aid to other countries. This may explain my outlook, but I assume most of you will reject it.
The average global annual income is estimated around $9,700 to $12,200 USD per capita, though the median income is much lower at roughly $3,000 USD
The average annual income in the U.S. is approximately $69,846 ($65,000–$66,600 range in 2023-2024 data), while the median personal income is lower, around $45,140 to $62,000.
I must be one of the only peoples that supports most US aid to other countries. This may explain my outlook, but I assume most of you will reject it.
The average global annual income is estimated around $9,700 to $12,200 USD per capita, though the median income is much lower at roughly $3,000 USD
The average annual income in the U.S. is approximately $69,846 ($65,000–$66,600 range in 2023-2024 data), while the median personal income is lower, around $45,140 to $62,000.
Last edited:
If you want to share the wealth, start in America first...easy enough, just eliminate all income taxes, state and federal, for single people making less than 70k/year.
Five years after Safe-an-Effect-ive™ you want to use Google to prove something true?
What next, a citation from Snopes?
You're entitled to an alternate opinion. But I reject the Left's alternate realities.
Just some borders drawn by bankers.
But by that measure no "Nation" has a real right to exist. Its just a fake boundary drawn by some thieves. And as such they change all the time.
Viking
Yellow Jacket
British
- Messages
- 728
- Reaction score
- 926
- Points
- 268
Judeo-Christian principles are a shared set of moral, ethical, and social values derived from the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and the New Testament, foundational to Western civilization. Key tenets include the sanctity of human life, belief in one creator God, objective moral responsibility, the Ten Commandments, and the, inherent dignity of the individual created in God's image.
Core Judeo-Christian Principles
The USA was founded on these principals.
Core Judeo-Christian Principles
- Sanctity of Human Life: The belief that all humans are created in God's image and possess inherent dignity.
- Objective Moral Order:The belief in an absolute right and wrong established by God, rather than subjective societal standards
.- The Ten Commandments: Serving as the core moral code.
- Free Will and Responsibility: The belief that individuals have the freedom to choose their actions and are accountable to God for them.
- The Golden Rule: Treating others with love and respect, as taught in both testaments.
- Family and Community: A strong emphasis on traditional marriage and the family unit.
- Justice and Compassion: A duty to care for the vulnerable and uphold justice, which is central to both faiths.
- Work Ethic: Viewing work as a honorable duty and service to God and society.
The USA was founded on these principals.
The Brits screwed up the Middle East and India/Pakistan when they lost the Empire. We been dealing with all this at least since the end of the Great War in 1918. The Brits need to stick to rock n' roll and fish & chips.
Strange that you should ask.
- In the Bronze Age, the Canaanites established city-states influenced by surrounding civilizations
- During the Iron Age, the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, emerged in the interior, while kingdoms belonging to Philistia and Phoenicia ruled the Palestinian coast.
- The Assyrians conquered the region in the 8th century BCE, then the Babylonians c. 601 BCE, followed by the Persian Empire in 539 BCE. Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire in the late 330s BCE.
- In the late 2nd-century BCE Maccabean Revolt, the Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom conquered most of Palestine; the kingdom subsequently became a vassal of Rome, which annexed it in 63 BCE.
- Following Muslim conquest of the Levant in 636–641, ruling dynasties succeeded each other: the Rashiduns; Umayyads; Abbasids; the semi-independent Tulunids and Ikhshidids; Fatimids; and the Seljuks. In 1099, the First Crusade resulted in Crusaders establishing of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, which was reconquered by the Ayyubid Sultanate in 1187. Following the invasion of the Mongol Empire in the late 1250s, the Egyptian Mamluks reunified Palestine under its control, before the region was conquered by the Ottoman Empire in 1516.
- Ottoman Rule (1516–1917): Palestine was integrated into the Ottoman Empire
- British Mandate (1922–1947): Following WWI, the League of Nations placed Palestine under British administration, incorporating the 1917 Balfour Declaration supporting a "national home for the Jewish people
- After the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the West Bank was annexed by Jordan, while the Gaza Strip came under Egyptian administration.
Y'all only recognize the bottom three.
Just remove it from our maps.
IGNORE it. Keep our dollars and our diplomats and our billion-dollar missiles, away.
For what this demented war is costing, we could drill-baby-drill for just about FOREVER.
Thanks!
Was going to play 20 questions and take it one question at a time and work backwards, but you cut to the chase.
So it looks to me, if I am reading that list correctly, that actual "Palestinians" haven't controlled Palestine since the Iron Age.
Edited to add: The phrase, if ya don't hold it ya don't own it, comes to mind here.
- Messages
- 44,219
- Reaction score
- 7,519
- Points
- 288
You are using the VA. It's part of the medical care I mentioned. Imagine being able to use your VA health care card to get medical care any where in the country you chose the use.
Now imagine your tax dollars being used here in the U.S. instead of being used overseas and part of that tax money going towards your medical care.
Other countries do it and they're not doing the crazy shit in foreign lands that we do. Seems like they are simply putting their citizens first. I'm thinking we could do the same.
The health care practitioner or hospital bed would be paid for with American taxpayer dollars instead of those dollars being spent abroad.
We already have a national pension plan. Think social security. I'm in my 70's, retired and on social security. I paid into it since I was a teen and the people whom I worked for also paid into it. I want to see it shored up, made stable and interest paid on each contributors account.
All I'm advocating is for America to put Americans first.
Edit to add:
Time to stop funding foreign actors and time to take care care of our own.
Last edited:
I'm using the VA because it's one of the options open to me. I'm not gonna be some sort of financial martyr and pay ACA non-insurance costs to make a point.
What I imagine, is a world like what we had forty years ago, where I wouldn't NEED the VA except for catastrophic illness. Where medical insurance was affordable, and hospitals were privately controlled - not HHS-CDC controlled through strings on the huge amounts of money they receive.
It's a variant on the old, tired argument put towards people my age (your age, too, I get it): that we're griping about government subsidies while on Roosevelt Security.
Well, first, nobody changes anything by refusing Socalist inSecurity. We all have to live within the system we're dropped into; and no one gave me a choice whether my money was to be taken out, all those years ago.
Second, HAD I depended on Socialist inSecurity alone (or Ray-Rode Retirement) I'd have been one sick puppy. It pays my bills. There's a few dollars left each month...have a Coke and a smile!
My security comes from my savings. My savings last...well, you know. The reason I'm at this kind of site.
My VA care is mediocre at best. I'm waiting, now, two months, for "Community Care" MRI for a torn rotator cuff. Long enough the thing seems healed, at least partly. Thank all gods it's not debilitating; but it's an ongoing problem and it's very possible it, or something else, WILL be. Or will put me in a wheelchair, or other negative outcomes.
It is what it is. Nobody lives forever. I'm glad the VA is here, in this set of circumstances, but...we didn't have to wind up here. There were and are better ways - we once had them.
Problem is that social security is essentially just a big government-run Ponzi scheme.
Yes, you contributed to it, but nowhere near the amount you will collect from it.
.....and by "you", I mean anyone part of it.
Money taken out of workers pay for SS gets paid out immediately to those collecting it.
The money you got this Month came from a working guy's paycheck last Month.
Any excess is "invested" in the government, who then pays interest to SS.
So you see, interest is already being paid on the SS trust fund monies.
- Messages
- 728
- Reaction score
- 926
- Points
- 268
Social security ushered in socialism in the USA. Politicians in an effort to get reelected give away more and more of the USA's wealth putting us hopelessly in debt. Politicians don't want to do what's responsible and say NO to their constituents. Healthy able bodied people are given welfare and free health care. Illegal aliens are given the same. When the boat we are all in takes on too much water and begins to sink we all go down together. Then perhaps some tough decisions will be made.
I wonder what form the inevitable reset will take?
I wonder what form the inevitable reset will take?
Global Marxism.
Klaus and his ilk have set the stage for it.
Klaus was a few years behind the Third Reich. He was a young man pursuing other things when the Soviet Union was teetering. Apparently the ideas he learned at university, popular at the time with radical "professors" were along the lines of, "Communism isn't working because the RIGHT PEOPLE are not in charge!" That explains Klaus' burning passion to create his sort of elite roundtable forum-slash-social-club, grooming the young Right People. Basically weaponizing them.
Brainwashing works. Having seen, what, 20 million people die at the hands of Communist governments, we have to go back to the poisoned well for another helping.
The Grate Reset (which could be truthfully called the Great Leveling) is straight out of Marxist ideology. Everything that is, must be destroyed. Institutions, power-structures...leaders...even history. Ve must staht frumm SCRATCH!
How'd we get from erasing Israel to bitchin about social insecurity?