FedNow instant interbank clearing and settlement platform

Welcome to the Precious Metals Bug Forums

Welcome to the PMBug forums - a watering hole for folks interested in gold, silver, precious metals, sound money, investing, market and economic news, central bank monetary policies, politics and more. You can visit the forum page to see the list of forum nodes (categories/rooms) for topics.

Why not register an account and join the discussions? When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including no Google ads, market data/charts, access to trade/barter with the community and much more. Registering an account is free - you have nothing to lose!


And it will be Trump's fault. Make him look bad just before the 2024 elections so they keep the Commander in Cheat in office.
 
Wonder what form that would take. Monetary crisis?
Well, obviously. The plan is to do to physical cash what fdr did to gold in '33. Ie: make it to where you can't have any, and have to "redeem" any that you might still have on hand.


As for a political crisis...............we may be heading for one shortly.
If we're being honest, we've been in a political crisis since March 9th 1933. That's the first case of the gov starting to operate outside the bounds of the Constitution, and never completely go back to operating within its limitations. The gov admits as much. The problem is that it's become normalized and people accept it as normal due to pure ignorance of anything other way. Ie: it"s all they've ever known. Similar to how a child that has never experienced anything other than abuse, can come to see it as just being a normal part of life.

Edited to add: so-called patriot act is the same. Obvious unConstitutional bs enacted in rush under the pretense of an emergency that then keeps getting renewed every year until it just becomes a normal way of gov conducting itself that no one questions and accepts as normal.
At some future point, an official report will be done on it similar to 93-549 and Congress will then enact another law that they will say makes it all Constitutional with a simple majority vote. Same as they did in 1976 to supposedly legalize the theft that took place 43 years earlier.

Wash rinse, repeat. Etc etc etc.



And it will be Trump's fault. Make him look bad
They been tryin' to do that since before he beat their hag. Lol
 
Last edited:
Straight up thru the cornhole just like aliens.
 
AFAIK, FedNow is not a CBDC. It's an alternative to the ACH system.
 

 
Last edited:
What does it say? Can't read, requires subscription.

Does it say that it absolutely will not be used in order to facilitate the cbdc they are also working on?


I did find this info based upon info from Federal Reserve Financial Services.


When it’s integrated into the vast majority of US financial institutions, FedNow will allow instant USD settlement between US residents on a peer-to-peer (P2P), business-to-business (B2B), and business-to-consumer (B2C) basis — even if bank offices are closed.

If Fednow will allow for peer to peer payments between "US residents" and between businesses and consumers (read: customer transactions), then that to me sounds a lot like a digital currency in and of itself.
....or at the very least, something that is designed to facilitate the future use of a digital currency. Ie: the foundation for a cbdc to work upon.

Btw, the link within the text opens a pdf from the Fed that the italicized part is referring to.
 
This one explains things.


Here's some info on the actual pymt. system. There's a link which shows banks that are already using the system.


From what I gathered this is simply a system that speeds up payments.
 
What does it say? Can't read, requires subscription.
...
I posted from my phone last night. I couldn't read it either. I posted it so I wouldn't lose the link. Now that I'm on my computer, I can read the article and I've added a pertinent snippet from the article to my previous post now.


From @searcher 's first link, I saw a broken link to a press release that was supposed to include details on how FedNow is supposed to work. There was enough info there for me to use some GoogleFu to find it:


More details (very long):

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...port-interbank-settlement-of-instant-payments

From what I am reading, FedNow does not employ a blockchain. There is no cryptographic tokenization. It's not a CBDC. It's not even a foundation for a CBDC.
 
Last edited:
I
It's not even a foundation for a CBDC
What exactly precludes its eventual use as a platform for a digital currency? Both what you posted and what I posted above, reads as though it would be perfect for the use of a digital currency.
 
That's like asking what precludes a boat from eventual use as a platform for a jumbo jet because they could both be used to cross an ocean. CBDCs are cryptographic tokens that are managed on a digital ledger (blockchain). FedNow is not employing or building any infrastructure that would facilitate a CBDC.

A CBDC could be implemented in the future to replace FedNow and the current financial system, but it would be a complete replacement.
 
A CBDC could be implemented in the future to replace FedNow and the current financial system, but it would be a complete replacement.
What makes you think a cbdc would be a complete replacement of it?

The fed itself says that a cbdc would be a parallel system with existing forms of money. That convertability between them would exist.

If it were a complete replacement, convertability would not be needed, as older forms of payment would no longer exist.



The Federal Reserve is......considering a CBDC as a means to expand safe payment options, not to reduce or replace them.
 
I meant that a CBDC could be employed to replace FedNow, but it would be a complete replacement of the FedNow system that is currently being created. FedNow is not a foundation that can be expanded into a CBDC any more than a boat can be expanded into a jumbo jet.
 
Imho, it"s far too early to say it can't be used with a cbdc. If can facilitate digital payments of current forms of money, what specifically would prevent it from being able to in the future, also process cbdc payments?

Why would they design a digital currency that is not comparable with their digital payment system?

A digital currency, and the control it would bring, is a central bankers wet dream. They've been wanting something like that for Decades now.
Perhaps you trust them to not take steps in the attempt to corral society into that wet dream of theirs, but I sure don't.
 

Trust has nothing to do with anything. Awareness of the Fed's ongoing investigations to building a CBDC also has nothing to do with my previous comments.

FedNow is a messaging system being developed for clearing payments with the existing financial (electronic banking) system. There is no new tech in FedNow that in any way facilitates blockchain ledgers or cryptographic tokens. I'm merely stating a fact here. Apples are apples. Oranges are oranges.
 
There is no new tech in FedNow that in any way facilitates blockchain ledgers or cryptographic tokens
You've examined the code for it?

Sorry, but apparently I am a bit more cynical than you are when it comes to gov/fed words vs eventual actions.

In my experience with them, I notice a track record of them saying/assuring of one thing, only to have it turn into something else later on.
 
The system is described in the quote/link which I shared in post #50.
I understand that. It's also their description, and like I said, the gov has a very poor track record of keeping things limited to what the original stated purpose was.

As I said, I am apparently more cynical than you are when it comes to the govs stated purposes for the things it wants to do. It always gets expanded once implemented.
 
I wouldn't worry to much about it. The government and bankers can't even keep themselves from being hacked. Pretty sure they would have a hard time convincing everyone that they have a safe, hack proof system. Some other hurdles to overcome as well. 25-30% of the US population is unbanked. Billions in cash transactions at pot shops across the nation and congress still won't pass a law allowing the money into the banking system. In listening to some of the fed meetings this subject gets brought up sometimes and there are definitely concerns about the system with our politicians. One of them being privacy.
So, for now I dont see this as an issue we need to worry about. However, it still might be a good idea to voice any concerns to our politicians. What happens when we have power outages for days or even weeks on end? How would this be kept safe from hackers? With all the top secret docs being uploaded to the net lately, apparently even the spy agencies cant keep from being hacked. Is banking private or is government now going to have access to every transaction? Is every transaction at a yard sale now going to be a taxable event even though I bought the items with money that was taxed at the state and federal level via income taxes and also paid sales tax on the items and to boot the item is selling at a massive discount to what I paid so do I get to declare a loss or will I only have to declare it as income and pay yet another tax?
 
... What happens when ...
The FedNow system is a direct replacement for the ACH (electronic checking) system. You or your bank will use only in situations that you might use the ACH/electronic check (paying bills online etc.).

I think govco already has access to that ACH/electronic checking info, but FedNow likely lets them monitor/analyze it real time.
 

More:

 

Better Late Than Never: Federal Reserve Platform Will Finally Bring Instant Payments To More Banks–And Customers​

After a decade of study and development, the Federal Reserve is finally launching FedNow, a system that could eventually mean businesses and consumers have near instant access to payments (including paychecks) and money moved between financial accounts.

Back in 2017, The Clearing House, a consortium of the nation’s largest banks, including JPMorgan ChaseJPM and Bank of AmericaBAC, rolled out its own high speed money transfer system, the Real Time Payments Network (RTP). But so far the volume of money RTP is moving is comparatively miniscule. In the first quarter, $26 billion was transferred over RTP, equal to 0.13% compared to the $19.7 trillion sent over the nation’s dominant Automated Clearing House, which takes between one to three business days to move money. ACH is typically used to pay recurring bills, paycheck deposits and loans. Another $277 billion was sent in the first quarter over FedWire, a Federal Reserve run service for one-time wire transfers.

Read the rest:
 
Yup.

Cheering the Big-Brother-ing of money.

Government controlling ALL TRANSACTIONS! YIPPEE!!
 

 

That's NOT correct.

" a CBDC would differ from existing digital money available to the general public because a CBDC would be a liability of the Federal Reserve, not of a commercial bank,” the Fed says on its website."

The FRN is not a liability of a commercial bank Not to mention that is a VERY odd way of defining a currency. Commercial banks have nothing to do with the currency issuance. Other than the deposit into their system.

I would like Rafi Faber to weigh in on this but an FRN IS a liability of the FED. They create a $20 bill by creating a debt and selling that to the banks. So that is an asset to the banks and liability to the FED.
 
That's NOT correct.

" a CBDC would differ from existing digital money available to the general public because a CBDC would be a liability of the Federal Reserve, not of a commercial bank,” the Fed says on its website."

The FRN is not ...

The quote refers to bank credit - "existing digital money" - not FRNs (paper notes). Bank credit originates in banks in our fractional reserve system.
 
The quote refers to bank credit - "existing digital money" - not FRNs (paper notes). Bank credit originates in banks in our fractional reserve system.

Bank credit is not a currency. If you are a bank in Switzerland you aren't creating USD's.

Even if you want to go down that path. A bank can create new money out of thin air. So if I get a mortgage in USD I suppose you could argue and probably be correct in that the money supply has expanded. BUT in that case the loan (new money) is an ASSET of the bank and really a liability to me. But, I believe the liability of the monetary system shifts to the FED.
 
Last edited:

More:

 

More:

 
starting Nov 19, 2023

ISO® 20022: What You Need to Know​

The Federal Reserve will use ISO 20022, an internationally accepted data-rich messaging standard, to define the message flows and formats for the FedNow Service.

Whether you’re responsible for your organization’s FedNow Service integration, preparing to build instant payment products leveraging the FedNow Service, or are a payments processor that will help your clients connect to the service, now is the time to get to know the FedNow ISO 20022 message specifications.

Additional information​


more
 
Found on the "What is ISO 20022" page:
... Financial services organizations in more than 70 countries currently use the ISO 20022 standard including The Clearing House’s RTP® 1 network, which has used the standard since the payment platform launched in 2017. ...

Sounds like the Fed is playing catch up to their only competitor in this space.
 


It sounds like FedNow is still having trouble achieving mass adoption.
 
lol:
More:


FedNow is apparently FedNo right now.
 
The Good Reason is not the real reason. Obviously, the aim here is not fast transactions; but centralized command-and-control.

Make data both visible and controllable through central checkpoints - and ultimately, subject to clearance through algorithms.

Banks are coming to see how that removes the sort of choices made in business decisions, and, essentially, removes their very reason for existence. So they see it, correctly, as a threat to their own survival.

How much power they have on this, is unknown. I remember when Carnivore, the email sniffer program, was to be installed at various ISPs. Earthlink and a few others, resisted, working objections through the courts. They correctly feared that it would turn ISPs and tech companies into handmaidens of the Deep State.

Earthlink lost the suit, and founder Sky Dayton resigned a few weeks later. Took a token position on the board for a year or so - I believe he's left the company entirely, now. But he was always a privacy absolutist.

There may be a few similar bank officials. They probably won't have the same power in their industry, and probably not the same clout. Modern banking is ALREADY totally subjugated to the FRB and NGOs like Fanny Freddy.
 
Reports from October (post #71) claimed only 140 financial institutions had signed up for FedNow. New report says:
 
They recognize, correctly, that it's a first step in rendering retail banks obsolete.

Jamie Dimon's future, and that of JPMC, those are assured. As adjuncts of the Fed, like Fannie Farmer Freddie Kruger. But that of the First Federal Bank of Podunk? There ain't no future; there's probably demonization and legal lawfare to be aimed at lower-ranking banksters who didn't make the first cut of the Great Purge.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…