Finland & Sweden Join NATO
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Russian President Vladimir Putin announced Saturday Russia will station some of its nuclear weapons in Belarus, the first time Russia will base such weapons outside the country in more than 30 years, amid growing tensions between Russia and the U.S., including a warning of a possible nuclear conflict by Russian officials.
What do we gain by having Finland in NATO?
I can see what they gain. They gain someone to defend them.
...but if we get attacked, how does having them in NATO help us? It's a mutual defense treaty, and should be limited to only having members that actually have the means to offer meaningful support. As it stands, this is a one way deal, to Finland's benefit.
If we, or really, any other nation in Europe gets attacked, no one is gonna be saying, "I hope the Finns get here quick, they'll save our asses".
I can see what they gain. They gain someone to defend them.
...but if we get attacked, how does having them in NATO help us? It's a mutual defense treaty, and should be limited to only having members that actually have the means to offer meaningful support. As it stands, this is a one way deal, to Finland's benefit.
If we, or really, any other nation in Europe gets attacked, no one is gonna be saying, "I hope the Finns get here quick, they'll save our asses".
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I think Finland would make a good ally. They are a believer in civil defense.
www.cnbc.com
nationalinterest.org
___________________________________________________________________
Bit off topic but I love history.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Take a look inside the Finnish bunkers capable of withstanding a nuclear attack
Finland's bunkers have soccer pitches, playgrounds and cafeterias — and are also designed to protect citizens from attack.
Finland's Unique Defense Strategy Makes it Ready for Anything
Russia is sometimes considered the master of hybrid war, but Finland has a response if needed.
nationalinterest.org
Bit off topic but I love history.
Winter War - Wikipedia
Continuation War - Wikipedia
NATO gains another member contributing funds, soldiers, equipment and intelligence. They also gain access to strategic real estate for bases and airspace.
Or in another words, keep doing more of what got us in a proxy war to begin with. Ie: building bases in order to more closely encircle Russia. That'll really help defuse the situation.
....and my point about mutual defense still stands, as Finland lacks the manpower to offer any meaningful help to us, or any other nation for that matter. It'll just be one more nation we'll be on the hook to defend.
As for that, oh boy! We'll have yet another nation that probably won't even contribute what they are supposed to anyways.
Trump tried getting them to pay, but was laughed at, while just 5 nations paid what they agreed to pay. We don't need more NATO members like that. Finland being in will cost us more than it saves us.
According to NATO’s own figures, just 5 of the 28 alliance members meet the requirement agreed upon in 2006 that members spend at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense.
That's from Time back in 2018.
The Only 5 Countries That Meet NATO’s Defense Spending Requirements
Just 5 of the 28 alliance members meet the requirement agreed upon in 2006 that members spend at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense
Here's a thought.
Perhaps all nations should be in NATO.
That would effectively mean an end to war, as any nation attacking another, would also be required to attack itself.
....and no nation would do that, right?
Perhaps all nations should be in NATO.
That would effectively mean an end to war, as any nation attacking another, would also be required to attack itself.
....and no nation would do that, right?
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The blue-and-white Finnish flag rises outside NATO headquarters Tuesday afternoon, making Finland a member and doubling Russia’s border with the world’s biggest security alliance. The move is a strategic and political blow to President Vladimir Putin, who has long complained about NATO’s expansion toward Russia and partly used that as a justification for his country’s war with Ukraine.
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Doorstep statement
by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg ahead of the meetings of NATO Ministers of Foreign Affairs
- Last updated: 04 Apr. 2023 13:40
Good morning.
Today is an historic day.
Because in a few hours, we will welcome Finland as the thirty-first member of our Alliance.
This will make Finland safer and NATO stronger.
And on this very day, in 1949, the Washington Treaty, NATO’s founding Treaty was signed in Washington.
And it is hard to imagine a better way of celebrating our anniversary than to have Finland becoming a full member of the Alliance.
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Timing here is interesting.
maritime-executive.com
Finland's New FSRU Terminal Gets its First American LNG Cargo
Finnish company Elenger has imported the first cargo of LNG through a new floating storage and regasification unit (FSRU) terminal at the port of Inko...
maritime-executive.com
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She's not wrong. NATO has nothing to do with Peace.
Unfortunately, they believe the propaganda that Putin is an evil man.
They're projecting the USSR onto Putin. NATO NEEDS a villain and they purposefully provoked Russia.
Same thing the Allies did in WWII with Germany.
First thing NATO will do is install nukes... as an act of peace.
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Lotta pics.
IMATRA, Finland (AP) — The construction of barbed-wired fence along Finland’s long border with Russia - primarily meant to curb illegal migration - has broken ground near the southeastern town of Imatra less than two weeks after the Nordic country joined NATO as the 31st member of the military alliance.
The Finnish Border Guard on Friday showcased the building of the initial three kilometer (1.8 mile) stretch of the fence to be erected in Pelkola near a crossing point off Imatra, a quiet lakeside town of some 25,000 people.
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NATO member Finland breaks ground on Russia border fence
Story by By KOSTYA MANENKOV and SERGEI GRITS, Associated Press • 1h agoIMATRA, Finland (AP) — The construction of barbed-wired fence along Finland’s long border with Russia - primarily meant to curb illegal migration - has broken ground near the southeastern town of Imatra less than two weeks after the Nordic country joined NATO as the 31st member of the military alliance.
The Finnish Border Guard on Friday showcased the building of the initial three kilometer (1.8 mile) stretch of the fence to be erected in Pelkola near a crossing point off Imatra, a quiet lakeside town of some 25,000 people.
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TORNIO, Finland/KARLSKRONA, Sweden, July 3 (Reuters) - High above a railway bridge spanning a foaming river just outside the Arctic Circle, Finnish construction workers hammer away at a project that will smooth the connections from NATO's Atlantic coastline in Norway to its new border with Russia.
"We will be removing some 1,200 of these one by one," says site manager Mika Hakkarainen, holding up a rivet.
Until February 2022, the 37-million euro ($41 million) electrification of this short stretch of rail – the only rail link between Sweden and Finland – simply promised locals a chance to catch a night train down to the bright lights of Stockholm.
www.reuters.com
"We will be removing some 1,200 of these one by one," says site manager Mika Hakkarainen, holding up a rivet.
Until February 2022, the 37-million euro ($41 million) electrification of this short stretch of rail – the only rail link between Sweden and Finland – simply promised locals a chance to catch a night train down to the bright lights of Stockholm.
In NATO’s new north, fresh chances to contain Moscow
As NATO reshapes its strategy in response to Russia's campaign, access to these new territories and their infrastructure opens ways for allies to watch and contain Moscow, and an unprecedented chance to treat the whole of northwest Europe as one bloc.
www.reuters.com
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All joking / kidding aside: Get rid of Putin, get out of Ukraine, hold free elections. and come into the light. Would be a good thing.
walkingnam
Predaceous Stink Bug
The way that I remember the history of WWII, there was and invasion of Finland by the Russians. The Finn beat them hands down and sent them packing. Further, the Finns are the only member of the allies to repay their war debt to the US. Weak sisters, I think not. Plus the Finns were much better snipers and the Finns did this against the Russians in the dead of their winter. Remember what the Russians did to the Germans, well the Finns beats the Russians at their own game.
If history means anything the Finns should be a welcomed ally.
If history means anything the Finns should be a welcomed ally.
Finns didn't beat the Ruskies during WWII. Yes, they were allied with the Nazis and fought ferociously against the communists, but eventually were forced to cede territory to the Russians during their Winter War.
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Winter War - Wikipedia
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Not news, nothing special, just a podcast I thought was interesting.
Read the rest and listen to the podcast here:
warroom.armywarcollege.edu
MANAGING NATO: INTERESTS AND INTEROPERABILITY
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has revived interest in and discussions about NATO. When 31 countries, each with their own national interests and goals, come together, interoperability becomes a driving consideration. Giovanni Corrado and Joel Gleason conducted a study of NATO interoperability and doctrine as their research project for the Carlisle Scholars program at the U.S. Army War College. They join podcast editor Ron Granieri to share the findings of numerous interviews and studies. What they found was that despite all the different languages, interests, equipment and procedures, multinational formations on the battlefield make it work. Much of that is due to well-formed doctrine that most members aren’t aware of in their daily routine.Read the rest and listen to the podcast here:
MANAGING NATO: INTERESTS AND INTEROPERABILITY
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has revived interest in and discussions about NATO. When 31 countries, each with their own national interests and goals, come together, interoperability becomes a driving consideration. Giovanni Corrado and Joel Gleason conducted a study of NATO interoperability...
warroom.armywarcollege.edu
TheRealZed
Retired Sailor
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One step closer to WW3.
TheRealZed
Retired Sailor
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Escalation...
TheRealZed
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Yes, but the issue is that they feel the need to do so. We'd be better off if the pot wasn't being stirred.
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Finland and Sweden Will Reinvigorate NATO’s Navies
On 4 April 2023, Finland made its mark in the global security sphere by officially becoming NATO’s 31st member. Finland’s arrival on the NATO stage bucked decades of official neutrality, a policy that began in 1948 as a balancing act attempting to avoid unnecessary confrontation with the Soviet Union, its neighbor to the east. Russia’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine, however, convinced Finland—along with fellow Nordic state Sweden—to abandon neutrality and pursue membership in NATO. Although Sweden’s bid has been met with political roadblocks, U.S. and Western military officials are optimistic that Sweden will become NATO’s 32nd official member before the end of 2023.Introducing both countries as permanent members of the alliance would undoubtedly shape the face of maritime warfare in the NATO theater and enhance its naval abilities in the Baltic Sea and North Atlantic. With strong naval technology and heritage, advantageous geography, and increased maritime interoperability with NATO navies as full members, Sweden and Finland could give the alliance a critical edge, reinvigorating it in the Baltic and North Atlantic.
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Something that hit my screen earlier today.
Raja-Jooseppi in Finnish Lapland was the last open border crossing to Russia. Despite few migrants in recent days, and zero on Tuesday, the government in Helsinki takes no chances and points to “threat to public order and national security”.
The closure was announced at a press conference by Prime Minister Petteri Orpo and Minister of the Interior Mari Rantanen in the afternoon on November 28.
“We don’t accept any attempts to undermine our national security, Orpo said.
thebarentsobserver.com
Raja-Jooseppi in Finnish Lapland was the last open border crossing to Russia. Despite few migrants in recent days, and zero on Tuesday, the government in Helsinki takes no chances and points to “threat to public order and national security”.
The closure was announced at a press conference by Prime Minister Petteri Orpo and Minister of the Interior Mari Rantanen in the afternoon on November 28.
“We don’t accept any attempts to undermine our national security, Orpo said.
Raja-Jooseppi closes
The Finnish Government on Tuesday decided to close the entire border with Russia for two weeks.
thebarentsobserver.com
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Hearing rumblings online that Putin isn't at all happy with Finland joining NATO. Wonder if he's cooking up some crazy plans?
Related:
“Between Torfyanovka and Valimaa is a huge line towards Finland. Both cars and buses in the line. Migrants with bicycles move outside of the line,” a Russian man waiting to cross the border reported on a Telegram channel on Friday shortly before noon.
Photos from site show a major number of cars in the area between the Russian Torfyanovka border-crossing point and Finland’s Valimaa.
Judging from the images, the many cars and the migrants have created a chaotic situation
“There are very migrants here. I counted about 100 people along the road. They do not slow the line on the Russian side. Most of them are from Syria (I have talked with them myself),” the Russian traveler said.
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thebarentsobserver.com
Related:
Chaotic on Finnish border as travelers rush to cross before closure.
“Between Torfyanovka and Valimaa is a huge line towards Finland. Both cars and buses in the line. Migrants with bicycles move outside of the line,” a Russian man waiting to cross the border reported on a Telegram channel on Friday shortly before noon.
Photos from site show a major number of cars in the area between the Russian Torfyanovka border-crossing point and Finland’s Valimaa.
Judging from the images, the many cars and the migrants have created a chaotic situation
“There are very migrants here. I counted about 100 people along the road. They do not slow the line on the Russian side. Most of them are from Syria (I have talked with them myself),” the Russian traveler said.
More:
Chaotic on Finnish border as travellers rush to cross before closure
Huge lines and hours of waiting for the people trying to make it across the Russian-Finnish border ahead of today's indefinite closure. Among the travellers is also a big number of migrants without valid travel documents to Finland.
thebarentsobserver.com
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New Pact Gives U.S. Military Access to 15 Bases in Finland
DECEMBER 21, 2023 8:27 PMThe Defense Cooperation Agreement signed Monday between Washington and Helsinki will give the American forces access to 15 installations — five in the High North near Russia — and permission to store equipment and weapons on Finnish soil.
Russia will continue to be a global security threat, Finnish Foreign Minister Elina Valtonen, speaking at the Hudson Institute shortly after the signing, said. Finland is now officially a NATO, and how it organizes is important, Valtonen said.
Finland has supported Ukraine since the Russian invasion in February 2022. Helsinki also supported NATO operations in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. In 20 installments, Helsinki has sent $2 billion in military and economic aid to Kyiv. Valtonen added its parliament is considering a new round of support.
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Didn't want to start a new thread.
Linky stuff:
The Turkish parliament on Tuesday ratified Sweden’s bid to join NATO, with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan now expected to sign the accession.
Turkey’s move, which follows 20 months of diplomatic bargaining with Stockholm and Washington, leaves Hungary as the final NATO country still to proceed with Sweden’s bid to join the 31-member military alliance.
The ratification was adopted by the national assembly in a vote of 287 to 55.
www.politico.eu
Linky stuff:
The Turkish parliament on Tuesday ratified Sweden’s bid to join NATO, with President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan now expected to sign the accession.
Turkey’s move, which follows 20 months of diplomatic bargaining with Stockholm and Washington, leaves Hungary as the final NATO country still to proceed with Sweden’s bid to join the 31-member military alliance.
The ratification was adopted by the national assembly in a vote of 287 to 55.
Turkey approves Sweden’s NATO bid, leaving Orbán as final holdout
Front-line countries are keen for Hungary to give the OK so Sweden’s powerful military can join the alliance.
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Sweden is next.
www.highnorthnews.com
US Strategic Bombers Deployed in Northern Sweden
Two US Air Force B-1B Lancers are now operating out of Luleå-Kallax Air Base in Northern Sweden. “In these uneasy times when NATO membership is imminent, it is important to have committed partners," says the Chief of the Swedish Air Force, Major General Jonas Wikman.