Indian Buffaloes

Goldmart has them for $0.89 over spot.

I like the look of the Indian Buffalo and the premium is low enough compared to other bullion.

I did a search and not much has been said about them on this forum. Any reason why they're not as popular?

Silver buffalos are pretty well known and accepted at most any local coin shop. As far as bullion rounds go, they are perfectly fine.

http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f3/1-oz-silver-buffalo-rounds-139/

Tulving has them for .49-.59 over if you can handle the minimums.


GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!

GM has them at around 27.50 right now. Thinking of picking some up myself.

If I'm in the mood for "cheap" , but still recognizable 999 silver, is Indian Buffalo the best way to go?

Seems odd to me how it's cheaper than a JM 1oz bar - see it everywhere for $1.49 over premium. Heck, even the mixed silver at APMEX is $1.29 over premium if you buy 500+ oz.

$0.89 over spot just seems too cheap if you know what I mean.

superhero said:

If I'm in the mood for "cheap" , but still recognizable 999 silver, is Indian Buffalo the best way to go?

Seems odd to me how it's cheaper than a JM 1oz bar - see it everywhere for $1.49 over premium. Heck, even the mixed silver at APMEX is $1.29 over premium if you buy 500+ oz.

$0.89 over spot just seems too cheap if you know what I mean.

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Goldmart has some very good pricing on them. I would imagine that the good pricing is because they are not real currency, and there are a lot of them out there. For the price, they are tough to pass up. They are quite a bit cheaper than ASE's and a good bit cheaper than silver maples and philharmonics. I would guess that they are probably a little better option than some random no-name bar or some other choices.

superhero said:

...
Seems odd to me how it's cheaper than a JM 1oz bar - see it everywhere for $1.49 over premium. ...

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Johnson Matthey only recently started minting 1ozt bars again. There is a bit of an extra premium for them because of that.

superhero said:

I did a search and not much has been said about them on this forum. Any reason why they're not as popular?

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...Guilty conscience! :rotflmbo:

Personally, I love the design of buffallos, couldn't get them in my local shop though

The buffaloes were my first silver purchase. I gradually acquired hundreds of them. Then that boating accident....

Finally opened up a tube of Buffalo Indians this weekend to look at them. These were from Golden State Mint and... I'm disappointed. On the computer screen, I thought the Buffalo and Indian looked great, but in person, they didn't look all that good, there were some blemishes (like sand granules on the surface), the reeds didn't look nearly as clean as the Maples, and there were plenty of milk spots.

Obviously Indian Buffaloes are cheaper, and resale price down the road is cheaper as well. Is it worth paying the higher premium for Maples or ASEs?

I own a mix of generic bullion (bars and rounds) and coins (90%, Eagles and America the Beautiful coins). If investment demand picks up again, I expect the premiums for modern government silver (Eagles mostly) will go up again as demand swamps production like it did a while back.

Say a retailer sells Indian Buffaloes at $29.12, and sells ASEs for $30.82 (differential is $1.70). Would you rather have:

A) 170 Buffaloes
B) 160 ASEs + $20 bill

Option A and B are both worth ~$4,951. What's your preference? Asking because many people say silver is silver, but don't blink at doling out the extra $1.70/ozt premium.

superhero said:

Finally opened up a tube of Buffalo Indians this weekend to look at them. These were from Golden State Mint and... I'm disappointed. On the computer screen, I thought the Buffalo and Indian looked great, but in person, they didn't look all that good, there were some blemishes (like sand granules on the surface), the reeds didn't look nearly as clean as the Maples, and there were plenty of milk spots.

Obviously Indian Buffaloes are cheaper, and resale price down the road is cheaper as well. Is it worth paying the higher premium for Maples or ASEs?

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Take no offense, but GSM is not a perfectionist mint with their personal designs. Zoom in the photos and really look. A drunken sculptor at work.
Weight is the most important, thus my guess to GSM common rounds appearance.

GSM does mint gorgeous rounds for other companies.

superhero said:

Say a retailer sells Indian Buffaloes at $29.12, and sells ASEs for $30.82 (differential is $1.70). Would you rather have:

A) 170 Buffaloes
B) 160 ASEs + $20 bill

Option A and B are both worth ~$4,951. What's your preference? Asking because many people say silver is silver, but don't blink at doling out the extra $1.70/ozt premium.

Click to expand...

It is usually a matter of preference. If you only care about amount of silver, larger bars are probably the best way to go.

Also, remember the buy back price for ASEs is usually higher than for Buffaloes, so you will get some of the extra premium back (but not all).

ASE: spot + $1.60
http://www.apmex.com/Category/160/Silver_Eagles___Uncirculated_2012__Prior.aspx

Buffaloes: spot +$1
http://www.apmex.com/Category/1202/1_oz_Silver_Rounds.aspx

Government mint vs. generic

The reasons I've heard in favor of government minted coins is 1) they have fiat value. The lowest a silver maple will drop is $5 Canadian; and 2) you get back the premium when you sell.

Just doing a bit of math. CURRENT assumptions are:

1) I'm buying from APMEX
2) Buying 100 oz.
3) Get free shipping :rotflmbo:
4) Asking POS = $29.37
5) Bidding POS = $29.27
6) Buy back prices listed on APMEX are good for 100 units.
7) I'm turning around and selling

ASEs
Buying 100 ASEs will cost 100 x ($29.37 + $3.49) = $3,286
Selling 100 ASEs will return 100 x $31.07 = $3,107.
I lose $1.79 per coin.

Maples
Buying 100 Maples will cost 100 x ($29.37 + $3.09) = $3,246
Selling 100 Maples will return 100 x $30.47 = $3,047
I lose $1.99 per coin

Indian Buffaloes
Buying 100 Buffaloes will cost 100 x ($29.37 + $1.99) = $3,136
Selling 100 Buffaloes will return 100 x $29.37 = $2,937
I lose $1.99 per coin

If those assumptions hold true, then yes, ASEs are probably better than Buffaloes since you lose the least amount of premium.

And of course, if you can buy from a retailer that has lower premiums, and sell back to APMEX, that's an even better deal.

What is the point of this post? Guess I needed to do the math to make sure for myself. Hope you find it helpful as well.