Is now, April 2015, the time to heavily invest in gold and silver?

Gold or silver or mix... Mix I would say. I just started in this investment idea and presently just taking it easy and trying to get some solid information as to what I should do. I have some mad money that I would like to put into gold and silver .. 10,000.00 Canadian. Where should I start? The thought of investing is somewhat simple, but the source to obtain reasonable silver and gold purchases is not. Seems to me that now is the time to jump in. I've been over the internet many times and have listened to many speakers giving their opinion and the direction of silver and gold. I found James Rickards to be the most informative one of all and I do have his book "The Death Of Money". Interesting to say the least. Anyone with any suggestions?

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Hi Golsil, and welcome!

As a general rule, and particularly if you have mad money, I recommend a balance in precious metals holdings. Here would be my general take, of course I know nothing of your circumstances:

1) If you have more than $10,000 (better said: if you eventually will have more than $10k to invest), then I would buy more $-value of gold than silver. Even more so if you have children, gold is a fabulous intergenerational gift, the super-rich do that (pass it down through the generations for hundreds of years). Gold takes up far less space too...

2) Silver is great as a speculation AND in case things get rough (SHTF). Easier to spend and all. Silver also has different fundamentals (it is used in many industries, vital in most of its uses).

3) There is no harm in buying platinum if you are comfortable with it. It´s a lovely metal, used in industry as well, but with different fundamentals than silver. But, platinum is not as liquid, especially in a VERY BAD SHTF with "social unrest"...

If $10,000 or so is about all you will spend on PMs, go with both gold and silver.

But, read other opinions here too! The above are just my suggestions based on limited knowledge.


EDIT: Specifically answering your question re buying PMs this April, yes, now (and anytime) is a good time to buy. As long as you are comfortable with the volatile price movements.

Thanks for the info DoChenRollingBearing. I might say that with most of us, we try and enter at the right time... you know that precise moment when everything looks perfect. I know some, who by luck or otherwise, who entered at the perfect time, and they have really profited. There is so much going on presently with world matters that could drive gold and silver to absolute crazy figures. Just wondering if this time has come. With writers like James Rickards and the other common advisers who give their comments, it seems to me, that soon we may be in for one hell of a ride. With China and Russia and the Euro with all the problems currently, as well as the gloom and doom for the US economy and the possibility of it going broke and downhill, it makes one sit up and just think where all of this is leading. Damned at this time, if I know.

I like junk silver and eagles. Stick with silver.

I would buy 5 gold maples, 125 silver maples and a $100 face bag of %90 dimes and quarters.

I would say no. The time to invest in silver has been ever since it went back below the $25-$30 range, so I would hardly restrict it to just this month as being a good time to buy silver. Gold is so high relative to silver that while I still buy a bit of fractional gold now and then, I concentrate on silver for now, and will keep doing so until either gold comes way down, or silver shoots way up, or both.

Thanks 11C1P.. You mention.. $25-$30 range. Do you think that is will go lower and if so, when? And while you say, most any time now is a good time to buy silver, when do you think it may begin to go upwards in value. I'm trying to hold off as long as I can due to world issues such as China, Russia, Japan and others, and then throw everything I have into mostly silver and a reasonable amount of gold. Some may say that this is a stupid question and if we knew that, then everyone would be on the band wagon. Well, the way I see it some just blindly, with little effort, do what they may think to be correct rather than seek advice. As for me, I will always seek advice and digest it before making a decision. When you ask for advice, you may well be surprised with the knowledge others have, and if you don't ask it may not be offered, and you miss a great opportunity to pick someone's brain for what you would hope to be of great value. I guess that is where a good listener is always ahead in his game.

Golsil said:

... I might say that with most of us, we try and enter at the right time... you know that precise moment when everything looks perfect....

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No one will ever know when that time is. Traders always risk missing the boat and rarely time peaks and valleys correctly. Stackers miss the opportunity for peak returns, but they won't be in the water when the Titanic sinks.

Yeah, if someone tells you know when something is going to peak and when it's going to bottom out they are full of shit. That doesn't mean you can't see when something is at a good value. If Ford suddenly priced a new Mustang at $100k, I wouldn't run down and start buying a bunch thinking I want to get in on a run, but if they priced say a new F-150 at $1k each, I would run down and buy as many as I could afford. Doesn't mean I knew those prices were coming, or where they will be in a week, but I know that $1k for a new truck represents incredible value. I currently think that's where silver is at, a great value, especially compared to gold. Right now gold is above platinum. Seems to me that other PM's are either undervalued or gold is overvalued, perhaps a bit of both, which still makes me like silver.

Oh, yeah as far as where to put your money, diversity is always a good thing, but you still always want to get as much value you as you can, even while diversifying. I would concentrate on silver now, maybe spend around 15% of whatever amount you plan on starting out your stack with on gold, the rest on silver. I also like to diversify my silver in that I buy 1/3 govt. bullion, 1/3 junk silver, and the other 1/3 generic silver coins/bars.

My thing is silver, and right now it is deeply discounted against gold. Silver Maple Leafs are solid purchases brother. I wouldn't spend the whole ten yards, because keeping twenty percent in cash keeps you liquid for emergency situations.

I had similar questions about gold versus silver when I first came to this forum:
http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f3/silver-storage-661/
http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f3/stack-transport-1186/

Silver is a good place to get started, but eventually gold/plat become important as a more concentrated form of wealth.

I'm listening with both ears. Just today I contacted Silver Gold Bull Inc. Calgary and purchased 3 10 oz Sunshine Mint Silver Bars. I usually buy the 1 oz. wafer bars, but the 10's were somewhat of a bargain I thought. Only have a few ounces of gold to date, due to the fact I, as many of your do, thought it was rather overpriced at present. Just waiting for it to drop. Hey, I'm tired of having my money under the mattress. As for Gold, what is the present view, up or down for the next 30 days?

11C1P.. You just mentioned Ford Mustangs. Hey, I just purchased mine, a 2015 6th Generation pony car, 3.7L 6V, back in Nov. 2014. It was an internet build. Cost me $31,000.00. Built a special garage for it last summer. It will only be driven during ...May through Oct. each year, just 6 months. Outside that, it will be safely stored in my garage, solely for the Mustang. Always wanted a Mustang. Yes I know, that would have surely bought a hell of lot of precious metals. But....

Hey Golsil welcome aboard

I also rate Jim Rickards as a smart, thoughtful source of info. I know some think he's tainted because he has good connections.

As the precious metals are not able to establish value in a real market, its not really possible to say any more than 'prices will go where they want them to go', until they loose control of the manipulation processes.
Its quite likely they have things in place in the event that gold wants to go somewhere fast.We will no doubt find out .....

Im kinda waiting for the last of the gold bugs to give up and revert to paper, cos thats when it will get interesting

oh wait .....

rblong2us.. Thanks... glad to be here.. great knowledgeable people.

Indeed... Jim Rickards in my opinion, has a lot of good information to offer. Being not so perfect sometimes has its advantages. I fault him not.

Makes one wonder about all the gloom and doom that presently exists in many countries. In the news we find Japan, Italy, Europe, China, Russia and the United States to name a few. All have major problems that will spill over and cause gold to rise tremendously. The Death of Money.. will that really happen and then what? Next couple of years, we are in for one hell of a ride. Investing in precious metals at this time, seems to be a safe haven.


Murphy's Law.. Anything that can happen, will happen. (Again, and again and again) ... my personal version.

Golsil said:

... Only have a few ounces of gold to date, due to the fact I, as many of your do, thought it was rather overpriced at present. ...

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Just to clarify, I don't think anyone said that gold is overpriced at present. Indeed, there is evidence that it is extremely underpriced right now. What folks are saying is that silver is even more of a bargain relative to gold at the moment.

GolSil,
Have you looked at Apmex for PM buys? I tend to have a personal bias for them since I have never, ever had a problem with them. Although I don't know what the import regs are in Canada. They are in the USA and will ship to you, but I'm not at all up to date on the requirements.

That said, I understand that there are a number of reputable firms in the larger metro areas with great reputations. I like to do cash and carry whenever possible. My LCS is a fair and reputable guy with reasonable mark-ups. Buying local means I get my metals at the point of sale, I help the local economy with the whole money velocity thing and I don't have to wait for my shiny.

Dont worry about 30 days. I known these guys for over 5 years. Buy what you can forget to know that you own. Stack it.

Thanks ancona.. I actually live in Canada and tried to get some silver from said company but they could not ship to me. I tried multiple times and finally a representative of the company apologized for the trouble I was having and offered to have me just email her, rather than follow the site's importing instructions, show shipping, items I required and so on. But I just didn't as yet give them a full reply, just acknowledged their proposal.

Import regs I believe are... gold is exempt when in bars, wafers and blocks at 99.5 content, and silver, same form, at 99.9 content. Coins and other items are free duty under NAFTA but taxable.

You are indeed lucky to have the privilege of Cash and Carry. I have to go all over the globe for my purchases. Nothing acceptable locally. I usually have to wait 3 weeks or more before I see my product by getting my metals from an outside source. And I'm pleased with that

PMBug.. When I initially said that, I think I had enough information at the time to make that assertion. I did however, and getting to your point, since many of the people who have commented in this forum, said that they preferred silver as to gold, due to the fact that it was too expensive, I sort of followed up by agreeing with them.

I believe (and I better watch from now on how I make my assertions) that many in this forum know of James (Jim) Rickards and I follow him religiously and make every effort to get and digest his informative material. Some may think that he .. well, I'll pass on that.. but anyway his book "The death of Money", really intrigued me and most definitely caught my attention. This, and as well many other issues have me to believe that gold has yet to bottom out and soon. I still hold that gold is most definitely overpriced and will sink to $900.00 before it rebounds to an amazing $7,000.00 or more. Gold presently is wavering at $1,200.00 and don't know which direction to go. My prediction is that is will drop like a can of beans, then take off making gold so expensive that it will be out of the reach of many. For that reason, gold is a definite bargain at this time, but for those who want a better profit, they can wait and reap the rewards. $300.00, the difference between now and then, will be clear profit and multiply that by the ounces you have, and you can identify your extra money in the bank. Like the resurrection, gold will die and then come blazing back to life and for those who are ready for this, they will indeed profit tremendously.

Y'all place a marker on this and if I have make an incorrect statement, I will apologize to all.

I noticed the statistic that was of some interest to me...

"" Most users ever online was 293, 03-20-2013 at 11:21 AM ""

Just wondering if we should make an effort to break that record. With suggestions from everyone and run them up for discussion we may just break that record and of course, expand the importance and comradery of this forum. May be a waste of time, but then it could very well be quite interesting and rewarding, and a challenge, that is, if we are up to it.

I don't think a special thread has to be made, only that we discuss it at random and whenever. Or just maybe, a special thread may be more meaningful, since it will get everyone together, rather than have a spread with everyone probably not making the right connection, or having a contact. Pros and cons in one area would certainly be more beneficial than having everyone apart in different sessions of the forum.

Anyway, there you go. Something more to digest and probably have implemented in the near future.

Golsil said:

PMBug....... I still hold that gold is most definitely overpriced and will sink to $900.00 before it rebounds to an amazing $7,000.00 or more. Gold presently is wavering at $1,200.00 and don't know which direction to go. My prediction is that is will drop like a can of beans, then take off making gold so expensive that it will be out of the reach of many.........
Y'all place a marker on this and if I have make an incorrect statement, I will apologize to all.

Click to expand...

How soon does this all happen golsil ?

FOFOA reckons that gold will go to zero and no bid at the same time, then as the dust settles a very high price will coax out a few sellers.

Others say the cost of production will always underwrite pog.

I rather hope we have some kind of orderly reset with SDR or something that is partly gold backed rolled out to hold things together.
Rickards seems to suggest they are all in on the plan and just waiting for china to build a better stash.......

rblong2us said:

How soon does this all happen golsil ?

FOFOA reckons that gold will go to zero and no bid at the same time, then as the dust settles a very high price will coax out a few sellers.

Others say the cost of production will always underwrite pog.

I rather hope we have some kind of orderly reset with SDR or something that is partly gold backed rolled out to hold things together.
Rickards seems to suggest they are all in on the plan and just waiting for china to build a better stash.......

Click to expand...

I think the game can keep going for many years. There is still plenty of wealth to be extracted from natural and human resources. Combine that with China needing to build a stash, I can see our current situation going for another 5+ years pretty easily. I wouldn't be surprised if it continued for another 20, but then again it could blow tomorrow.

Welcome to the board, Golsil.

Golsil said:

Thanks ancona.. I actually live in Canada and tried to get some silver from said company but they could not ship to me. I tried multiple times and finally a representative of the company apologized for the trouble I was having and offered to have me just email her, rather than follow the site's importing instructions, show shipping, items I required and so on. But I just didn't as yet give them a full reply, just acknowledged their proposal.

Import regs I believe are... gold is exempt when in bars, wafers and blocks at 99.5 content, and silver, same form, at 99.9 content. Coins and other items are free duty under NAFTA but taxable.

You are indeed lucky to have the privilege of Cash and Carry. I have to go all over the globe for my purchases. Nothing acceptable locally. I usually have to wait 3 weeks or more before I see my product by getting my metals from an outside source. And I'm pleased with that

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Can't you just order directly from the Canadian mint? I prefer Maples over eagles anyway, especially when it comes to the gold version. .9999 gold for a few dollars less than .9167 gold.

rblong2us... You ask, how soon does this happen.

Good question. To be exact, I don't know. But I have my eyes open and my ears tuned for the opinions of others. Many I believe, have the idea that investing is just a game of chance. Anyone who thinks that, should call it a day, and pick up another interest. Investing is a full time job you might say. What I mean is, that you have to give it all the time and consideration possible. You just cant sit on it, and let things happen or should I say come to you. You have to get out, get fully involved, study what is on the internet, get into those forums that many times have those who are near experts in this field. I guess the text of the day would be...Keep quiet and listen, you may learn something.

This is my direction on investing. Investing is not like the lottery. If you want to get anything out of investing you have to do the time.

11C1P.. Yes I could just as well do that...Order from the Mint. But I sort of took a liking to Silver Gold Bull Inc. of Calgary. Now and then they offer good deals.. You know the saying.. Have I got a deal for you. I picked up some reasonable silver wafers in silver and gold, but not much. I'm waiting for that "Day of Doom" which will come about with the "death of Money", then I will throw everything I can into gold and silver bullion. At this time, I feel that Bullion is much safer, cheaper and more logical than coins. When people are broke they wont be buying coins when some are trying to sell and get rid of them. But if you have raw gold and silver, and knowing that industry will always be in need of those, it will be absolutely simple to get rid of it.

When the "Day of Doom" will happen. Again, I don't know. I'll follow my instincts, listen to others, and then when I feel the time is right, digest what I have learned and go for it.

I guess we are all unique and have our own ways of doing things, but never stop seeking advise from others.

...

One of our "folks" (hey, "we advised some folks") suggested "junk silver". From a SHTF perspective junk silver is a great idea, and everyone recognizes the coins (if not the silver value).

Canada had silver coins too, no? If so, there should be junk silver up there as well.

* * *

I note from Bug´s kitco widget that PMs are getting crushed now...

Must be another "flash crash" they will investigate in five years...



:judge:

Golsil said:

11C1P.. Yes I could just as well do that...Order from the Mint. But I sort of took a liking to Silver Gold Bull Inc. of Calgary. Now and then they offer good deals.. You know the saying.. Have I got a deal for you. I picked up some reasonable silver wafers in silver and gold, but not much. I'm waiting for that "Day of Doom" which will come about with the "death of Money", then I will throw everything I can into gold and silver bullion. At this time, I feel that Bullion is much safer, cheaper and more logical than coins. When people are broke they wont be buying coins when some are trying to sell and get rid of them. But if you have raw gold and silver, and knowing that industry will always be in need of those, it will be absolutely simple to get rid of it.

When the "Day of Doom" will happen. Again, I don't know. I'll follow my instincts, listen to others, and then when I feel the time is right, digest what I have learned and go for it.

I guess we are all unique and have our own ways of doing things, but never stop seeking advise from others.

Click to expand...

I don't know what day of doom you're imagining, but the silver from the Canadian mint will be just as good, if not better than any other silver. I stack silver maples at about a 5:3 ratio over silver eagles. Not to mention I've taken a real liking to the Canadian mint 10ozt bars. When it comes to Govt. bullion/coins I stack it in an equal amount to private bullion/coins as well as junk silver. I also stack the same amounts in junk silver so my stack is 1/3 junk silver, 1/3 govt. bullion/coins, 1/3 private bullion/coins. If the economy collapses or some other SHTF situation arises to make paper money worthless, I have no doubt that govt. silver/gold would probably be trusted before private and possibly even before junk silver. The main reason I keep the private bullion/coins in equal amount to the others is that the premiums are usually cheaper and that if it stays the main form of currency for an extended period, then people would start learning more about silver and start accepting silver from private mints. I know either way, if I had to accept silver as a form of payment, I have my test kits and other fact sheets to verify pretty much any silver or gold that comes my way.

11C1P.. I could fill you in on my thoughts on this "Day of Doom", but I wont. Imagining? I don't think so. Anyway, you hold your thoughts and I'll hold mine. And we will wait and see what happens in the next 2 years.

In the meantime for those who may be interested, I just extracted this from one of my subscriptions. Read it carefully and act accordingly if you wish.

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From a supply/demand point of view, we the era of 'peak gold production' is upon us. Based on the calculation of Goldcorp, the number of discoveries peaked in 1995. The development time between discovery and gold mine production is on average 20 years. In other words, gold production will peak in 2015, and the supply of physical gold will decline as of now.

Furthermore, from a market price point of view, today's average production cost for an ounce of gold is $1050 to $1200. Markets are rigged, we agree, but somehow we believe there is still some 'price discovery' going on. All jokes aside, it is probably no coincidence that the gold price is stabilizing around this price level.

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Is the Gold Market rigged? I have my own thoughts on this and rather than bust someone's bubble, I'll keep them to myself.

11C1P.. Just wondering when you make your purchases, do you just accept the prices logged or do you try and make a deal with your supplier? This is what I'll be doing from now on. Being frugal is no sin.

...

Golsil

I am a follower of Brother FOFOA who believes (convinced) that gold will reach astronimcal "real" prices (2009 non-hyperinflated numbers (the $55,000 / oz guy).

He posits that production matter VERY LITTLE as thee is so much stock around (vs. flow, movement of gold), that the price would not move much even if gold production declines. As he writes (my wording though), there is PLENTY of gold, all you want... Just have to pay the price.

I am inclined to believe him. He also writes that the Central Banks have already made their choice of what wealth really is...: gold! Not silver, not platinum.

(I own Au, Pt, Ag and Pd in declining dollar value)

I likely have a very different view than most on PMs (other than that we should all own physical), so keep reading!


EDIT:

Difficult and LONG reading, but worth it if you are prepared to devote serious time to understanding gold, I would start (yes) in late 2009...:

fofoa.blogspot.com

Yup.
The Gold Trail that FOFOA has tried to unearth and explain is a very deep rabbit hole but makes so much sense and stands the test of time.

The brain ache it caused me has not gone away and occasional visits to catch up on his work and the awesome exchanges in the comments are the only known cure

Fofoa is a great site with lots of real time observations and great historical data.

Well..............talk about the "day of doom". It's coming... just read the following:

Governments want to get rid of physical cash. Paper currency is just too private. Digital cash is much easier to track, tax, and confiscate.

Unfortunately, most Americans are too clueless to resist what’s coming. Casey Research contributor Jeff Thomas says the steepel will agree to anything that’s sold as a panacea to their economic woes.

The US government is just waiting for the right opportunity… which Jeff believes will be the next financial crisis. Politicians will blame it on people who “hoard” their cash. Good citizens, you see, give their cash to a bank for safekeeping. We can’t have people hiding cash outside the system under their mattresses.

You can almost hear President Hillary on TV: “Effective immediately, all cash will be digitized. You have 60 days to deposit your paper dollars with a bank. This is for the good of the people.”

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So there you are. Interesting indeed. Sure makes one wonder what a wonderful world we are about to live in.

Seems to me that a digital cash system would be very expensive and complex for the normal individual. With having to sign into a banking control system and then using your computer (if you have one) to get credits and so on would be an ongoing function just to have funds for everyday use. You would have to use smart cards and such to make a simple thing such as buying a candy bar, or a can of soda pop, which is now straight forward.

Who will prepare, record and follow up on all the digitized material and insure that it is correct. How much will this cost? Where will all this information be stored and protected? What if a terrorist group gets access to and destroys the electronic systems that hold all this information. What happens then. One f------ mess, I would venture to say.

Ah...I think I would rather have my money in my pocket where I know it is safe and it is immediately accessible to me when I need it.

Friday night and all is well. Have a good evening, drink as much as you can and enjoy it, but, DO NOT DRIVE YOUR VEHICLE. You are part of the family that now enjoys the togetherness of this forum. Please ensure that it remains that way. Take care.

In some of my readings I come across what seems to be very interesting and helpful news. I consider this to be one of them and I know this has nothing to do with Gold or Silver info, I just thought if only one person got something from this it would be worth posting. This information is for Canadians only since it applies to them with reference to their TFSA's if they have one and to those who may wish to sign up for one.
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Parties involved.. Prime Minster, Stephen Harper and his administrators.

The prime minister was firm. No, he said, his government's decision to nearly double the contribution limit for tax-free savings accounts won't hobble cash-strapped governments of the future by costing them billions in foregone tax revenue.

"The TFSA will not be an expensive problem down the road. That's utterly false," he said in Winnipeg on Thursday. "What will happen over time is that the monies held in tax-free savings accounts will grow. That's a very positive thing. It's not going to create a deficit. We have balanced budgets projected for many, many years to come."

His own finance minister didn't help the government's nothing-to-worry-about position when Joe Oliver suggested on Tuesday that his budget's increase of the account limit might indeed be a problem for Canadians to deal with — but only far in the future.

The 2080 date was a reference to a February report from the parliamentary budget officer that a doubling of the tax-free savings account limit to $11,000 could have a fiscal impact for federal and provincial governments of almost $40 billion by 2080.

Exponential growth

It's easy to see how the costs — or benefits, depending on one's point of view — could build exponentially. Someone who has never contributed to an account before can now drop $41,000 into one. In another 10 years, that contribution limit would rise by $10,000 a year to $141,000 — $282,000 for a couple. All income earned by that money would be tax-free.

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Talk about investing. Wow. From $41,000 to $141,000 in 10 years. AND ALL TAX FREE. Take it and do as you please. No what if's or such. No problem with losing any of your investment, very much unlike the Stock Market where you can literally lose your shirt almost without blinking.

GolSil,
This is the perfect opportunity for someone like me to lower their DCA by picking up as much shiny as I can. To that end, I just bought 50 dollars face of some good quality junk.

Keep on stackin'.

Ancona.. I'm interested in buying some junk silver. Where might I get it? As for DCA, it's a good plan to follow.

Golsil said:

... just read the following:

Governments want to get rid of physical cash. Paper currency is just too private. Digital cash is much easier to track, tax, and confiscate.

...

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's been discussed in various threads (grouped here for easy reference): http://www.pmbug.com/forum/tags/cashless/

Seems like that recent Bloomberg piece where the Citibank guy was advocating for doing away with cash received some attention.