I was over at gunbroker looking at shotguns when I noticed two 16 gauge 1897 Winchester from two different railroads. Good shotgun but why 16 gauge? Guesses? https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1156386083
Railroad shotguns 16 gauge...why?
- Thread starter Fatrat
- Start date
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A quick search says that the 16 gauge is for when you want a lighter gun than a 12 gauge but that delivers more power than 20 gauge.
Also known as the Sweet Sixteen, the Gentleman's gauge, and the forgotten gauge.
What RR's were they from? I'm thinkin' they were probably used by the RR's Bulls. Might have wanted a lighter gun if they'd be carrying it a lot, would be my guess.
....but @Casey Jones might know a bit more about it.
Also known as the Sweet Sixteen, the Gentleman's gauge, and the forgotten gauge.
What RR's were they from? I'm thinkin' they were probably used by the RR's Bulls. Might have wanted a lighter gun if they'd be carrying it a lot, would be my guess.
....but @Casey Jones might know a bit more about it.
Sadly, I don't. By the time I got into the industry, we were disarmed by FRA mandate. That meant no packing, not even with a CC permit.
Knives were a grey area - but if you're not trained with a knife, God have mercy on you.
The weapon most of us used, were Railroad fusees. Basically, old-school highway flares - the kind you can't buy anymore. Railroads bought them as signalling tools - drop one in the track gauge, for something ahead. Of course, to be effective, you'd have to walk back a mile or so. A train coming up...a red fusee, meant STOP, until you could figure out what was going on. If Dispatch had no word, if no other train crews around on the radio, and nothing visual, then, Restricted speed until you're clear of the location.
(Sorry to get off-topic).
But a burning road flare is a formidable weapon - to a dirtbag with greasy clothes and maybe crap in his Brillo hair. So, a supply of fusees was the last-resort weapon, and occasionally was used.
Now...I'm just guessing here...but I'd guess "railroad shotguns" were issued to Railway Express agents/guards, and/or Railway Post Office crews. Remember, back in the dark days before Fiat...before the FRB network to clear bank drafts...payrolls had to be met with money. A company headquartered out East, but with a California subsidiary (any number of businesses; Ford had California plants in the early days of the T) would have to get physical money out to the California banks. It was why train robberies were so lucrative.
I'm guessing the 16-ga shotgun was favored because no one else was using it. Just as, today, electrical power in the cabs of modern locomotives, is 74 V-DC. Makes radios, equipment, absolutely useless for anything other than where it is right now. Prevents theft.
So, someone steals a guard's 16-ga gun, and tries to pawn it. There'd be no question it was stolen - because ONLY railroads issued them!
Railway Post Office, then.
Tradition dies hard on the railroad. It took almost 70 years between Rudolf Diesel's invention of an economical oil engine, and its adoption to move trains, over steam power with 3-percent thermal efficiency. To this DAY, the railroads use a modified version of George Westinghouse's 1880 air-brake design - and not the efficient, safe disc-brakes used by private car-sets on excursion trains.
Partly because changeover would cost money, and would have to be done with most or all at once; but partly because the old way is "good enough."
Even back to 2002, on daily Locomotive Inspection cards, there was a space for the Boiler Certification Date. The last steam train run by the New York Central was in 1954. On the Norfolk & Western side (Norfolk Southern, now) it was 1960.
That's how long it took to update the card. And by that time...who even NEEDS a card? Do it electronically, FFS.
To the question. Railway Express pretty-much stopped moving bullion with the Federal Reserve; so its last years were moving private communications and small batches of fragile merchandise. But Railway Post Office cars were used right up until 1970; and the postmen in there were armed.
They were Post Office employees; but also had some tie to the railroad they served. I don't know if a percentage of their pay came through it, or if uniforms were issued by the railroad...since mailmen have been disarmed, in my lifetime, I'm guessing that the railroads took it upon themselves to issue weapons.
Which by then were scarcely needed. Not unlike the Mauser semiautomatic my father stole in German, off a dead German uniformed functionary. It had never been fired, until I broke it out.
Again, just conjecture on my part. I know some of the history but not the specifics of weapons issuance and security protocols.
IIRC, railroad cops just had sidearms.
They're kind of a dying breed, these days...CSXT didn't have any; they contracted out to local security companies. Conrail, prior to, had them, but they were undermanned and underfunded. The one railroad cop whose beat was from Collinwood, in Cleveland, to the Buckeye Yard in Columbus...he FINALLY got business cards, two months before Conrail was merged into its new owners, CSX and Norfolk Southern.
Here in the wilds of Montana, Montana Rail Link also depended on various sheriffs and a security company in Missoula, to manage our policing.
Now, I don't know what the BNSF does with their security needs. They may still have railroad cops. Of course, they and UP both have company vehicles (not exactly police cars, but can function that way) where they could keep a shotgun rack.
Did they in 1942? As they walked their beats in rail yards during the Dust Bowl and war years, I think they were on foot, mostly. A shotgun would be in the way. Pinkerton's men, decades earlier, would shoot first; but by the 1930s, there had been some damping of spirits. More likely a bum found stowed away, would get a beating, than be shot.
Cleaning up bodies was work.
They're kind of a dying breed, these days...CSXT didn't have any; they contracted out to local security companies. Conrail, prior to, had them, but they were undermanned and underfunded. The one railroad cop whose beat was from Collinwood, in Cleveland, to the Buckeye Yard in Columbus...he FINALLY got business cards, two months before Conrail was merged into its new owners, CSX and Norfolk Southern.
Here in the wilds of Montana, Montana Rail Link also depended on various sheriffs and a security company in Missoula, to manage our policing.
Now, I don't know what the BNSF does with their security needs. They may still have railroad cops. Of course, they and UP both have company vehicles (not exactly police cars, but can function that way) where they could keep a shotgun rack.
Did they in 1942? As they walked their beats in rail yards during the Dust Bowl and war years, I think they were on foot, mostly. A shotgun would be in the way. Pinkerton's men, decades earlier, would shoot first; but by the 1930s, there had been some damping of spirits. More likely a bum found stowed away, would get a beating, than be shot.
Cleaning up bodies was work.
Brightline, Florida’s high-speed passenger rail service, has recorded over 190 deaths since launching in 2017, averaging roughly one fatality every 13-14 days. Considered the deadliest passenger railroad per mile in the U.S., most incidents are not caused by train failure but involve pedestrian/vehicle trespassing or suicides.
Key Findings on Brightline Deaths
Still busy in Florida...
Key Findings on Brightline Deaths
- Death Count: Over 190 fatalities have been reported as of late 2025.
- Fatalities in 2024: There were 41 recorded deaths, with the highest numbers in Palm Beach (14), Broward (8), and Miami-Dade (6) counties.
- Cause of Incidents:
The majority of deaths involve pedestrians, bicyclists, or drivers going around safety gates at crossings
. - Safety Context: Despite the high death rate, investigations suggest the trains are rarely at fault, but rather the incidents occur due to drivers and pedestrians failing to adhere to traffic laws or entering the tracks illegally.
- Safety Measures: Brightline has invested in, and is continuing to implement, additional safety features, including fencing and improvements to crossing gates.
Still busy in Florida...
Unless the signals or gates fail, how could it, in any way, be the train's fault?
No idea how you can ever blame
the train, stay a several feet off the tracks and your good.
True...but, remember, there are almost-certainly cases in litigation. For a news wire to issue a blanket dismissal, would result in damage claims for "prejudicial claims" made outside official sources.
Point is correct, though. It's really hard to swerve a train...
And the brakes suck...True...but, remember, there are almost-certainly cases in litigation. For a news wire to issue a blanket dismissal, would result in damage claims for "prejudicial claims" made outside official sources.
Point is correct, though. It's really hard to swerve a train...
Actually, they blow.
Ninety pounds through the brake pipe. And as moron vandals find out, those hoses, if they separate or are pulled apart under pressure...they can really swing. Even train crew (usually new hires) have gotten cheek or nose fractures from the glad-hand connecter launching from air-release, directed to one side, after they pull apart or are manually unhooked.
Ninety pounds through the brake pipe. And as moron vandals find out, those hoses, if they separate or are pulled apart under pressure...they can really swing. Even train crew (usually new hires) have gotten cheek or nose fractures from the glad-hand connecter launching from air-release, directed to one side, after they pull apart or are manually unhooked.
They were prolly issued to railroad cops during strikes.
No railroad strikes since 1950 - and that one was broken by Truman, who ordered the Army to run trains.
Yeah, that turned into a cluster-copulation. The railroads were then designated a unit of the Civil Defense, and railroad men lost the legal freedom to strike.
No one had the right to strike during the war years (including 1942). In fact, during the war years, a lot of railroad work was done by women. In photo collections there are a lot of photos of hausfraus geared out and running the monstrous steam locomotives of the time (last years of steam)...Women, especially women programmed into believing they're doing this hard work for their husbands' safety, are not likely to start job actions.
I don't recall of any major railroad strike in the 1930s. Frankly, I think the railroad men were grateful to just have a job, and not have the deep cuts that other industries faced. While a lot of rail lines went bankrupt in those years, most were kept operating by banks and financiers that owned or had bought the companies' debts. They would operate in bankruptcy under oversight of a Receiver (a sort of interim CEO) with bankruptcy-court's approval.
Nor do I know of any massive job action in the 1920s. You have to go back before 1900 to find major strikes, hitting the Pennsylvania Rail Road and others...and the strikebreakers were hired by contractors one-step removed from rail management. This was where Allan Pinkerton made some of his money - the railroad strike of 1877, where his men ran interference for strikebreakers hired by the affected rail lines.
Almost certain these were for the Post Office railroad service or railroad police yard bulls as these were war years and fear of sabotage was great.
What intrigued me was 16 instead of 12, but all 12 was probably going overseas. Price is not unreasonable to me.
What intrigued me was 16 instead of 12, but all 12 was probably going overseas. Price is not unreasonable to me.
Like I said...16-ga was unknown. Guns go missing, and you have one of that gauge in your possession? Almost-certainly you stole it. If you were foolish enough to buy it, you'd have to think it was hot goods (or else, you were getting duped).
You can't easily buy ammo for it (or probably couldn't in the past, anyway). So, why steal it? Easier to just buy a more-common gauge at a pawn shop.
It's another layer of security for railroad equipment. Like the odd voltage on radios they use.
In those cases weight might also be a factor. Like I posted, a 16g is better than a 20g but lighter than a 12g. if you'd be carrying the thing a lot, as a RR bull or someone guarding a rail yard might need to do, that would make sense.
Weight was the first reason I came across as to why someone might use a 16g instead of a 12g.