swung by the bullet store - ammo availability

DoChenRollingBearing

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Russian ammo you can get for $0.30 or so and up. LOTS of it around.

gunbot.net has lots of Russian suppliers of Wolf and Bear crap at low prices. Availability of better stuff (Fiocchi, Korean PMC, American 7.62 * 39, etc. is not good, all "quality" ammo is a buck or more per round).

And I have some Russian (steel bullets, the LGS guy told me, are "armor-piercing", go right through cinder blocks he told me, but I declined to ask for the exact details of what "going right through a cinder block" exactly meant...)
 

Jay

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Russian ammo you can get for $0.30 or so and up. LOTS of it around.

gunbot.net has lots of Russian suppliers of Wolf and Bear crap at low prices. Availability of better stuff (Fiocchi, Korean PMC, American 7.62 * 39, etc. is not good, all "quality" ammo is a buck or more per round).

And I have some Russian (steel bullets, the LGS guy told me, are "armor-piercing", go right through cinder blocks he told me, but I declined to ask for the exact details of what "going right through a cinder block" exactly meant...)
CASES of Tula at our local hardware store. I didn't bother to look at the price, but yeah its out there...
 

DCFusor

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I wouldn't touch that Russian stuff - steel case, glue, dirty burn, for my own gun. Might be useful for barter at some point, but that's it.
At a recent machine gun shoot at our club, the only gun that consistently jammed or failed to fire was an otherwise very good and reliable tommy gun in .45 acp. This guy just couldn't get it to consistently work right, and it's one reliable design, very popular for example in WWII and prohibition before that.

Another expert walks over to the guy, looks at his Wolf ammo, declares that's his problem, gives him a few boxes of cheap/generic but American stuff - and no further problems. Nuff said.

Most military ammo has a copper gilded steel jacket. Some also contain a carbide armor piercing piece (like the green tip .223 milsurp). This is obvious with a magnet.
Both types are hell on barrels - they wear about 3x as fast with that as with civvie projectiles and I only use them when I want fast wear to "shoot in" a new barrel, since 60 or so shots of that is about the same smoothing of the tool marks as a couple hundred rounds of "good stuff". The military has no reason to care, the gun you wear out fast isn't the expensive part, and probably fails for some other reason first. Believe me, if you wear out your gun and live to tell the tale, they're real happy to give you a new one - you are the expensive part...

Just about any centerfire rifle round will easily go through the two webs of a cinderblock. They are so brittle it doesn't really matter what the projectile is - could be a light plastic tipped varmint bullet and it'll still shatter the thing. Doesn't prove much. A real round, like say a .308, will explode a block at 400 yds - tried it. But those are getting legitimately expensive to shoot - there just more of everything in a round. And for a lightweight like me, the recoil, even in a heavy gun, is a bit much to fire all day from a bench - in that case you are sort of leaning into the gun and it hits back pretty hard, compared to standing offhand.
 

Jay

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I wouldn't touch that Russian stuff - steel case, glue, dirty burn, for my own gun. Might be useful for barter at some point, but that's it.
At a recent machine gun shoot at our club, the only gun that consistently jammed or failed to fire was an otherwise very good and reliable tommy gun in .45 acp. This guy just couldn't get it to consistently work right, and it's one reliable design, very popular for example in WWII and prohibition before that.

Another expert walks over to the guy, looks at his Wolf ammo, declares that's his problem, gives him a few boxes of cheap/generic but American stuff - and no further problems. Nuff said.

Most military ammo has a copper gilded steel jacket. Some also contain a carbide armor piercing piece (like the green tip .223 milsurp). This is obvious with a magnet.
Both types are hell on barrels - they wear about 3x as fast with that as with civvie projectiles and I only use them when I want fast wear to "shoot in" a new barrel, since 60 or so shots of that is about the same smoothing of the tool marks as a couple hundred rounds of "good stuff". The military has no reason to care, the gun you wear out fast isn't the expensive part, and probably fails for some other reason first. Believe me, if you wear out your gun and live to tell the tale, they're real happy to give you a new one - you are the expensive part...

Just about any centerfire rifle round will easily go through the two webs of a cinderblock. They are so brittle it doesn't really matter what the projectile is - could be a light plastic tipped varmint bullet and it'll still shatter the thing. Doesn't prove much. A real round, like say a .308, will explode a block at 400 yds - tried it. But those are getting legitimately expensive to shoot - there just more of everything in a round. And for a lightweight like me, the recoil, even in a heavy gun, is a bit much to fire all day from a bench - in that case you are sort of leaning into the gun and it hits back pretty hard, compared to standing offhand.
My .306 is heavy, and barely has a kick. But I'd hate to haul it around all day. My 30-06, however, KICKS. I bought a case of cheap crap steel .223 several years ago, I can't remember but maybe I gave 5.00 a box, traded it all at the gun show for brass .223 and .308 at 17 dollars a box. Snicker.

The retired, Filipino, marine sniper up the hill from me, who has a clear shot two miles in any direction from his house, said Russian guns (he was referring to AK's) are loose and it doesn't make any difference the lacquer. Also its cold.

Him and the Blackwater guy a block away I would NOT want to fuck with.
 

DCFusor

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Yes, this is why SKS are not so accurate (an AK is by-definition full auto and there's a lot of pure bullshit that goes around that one). The chambers are loose, some countries do a better job than others - Czech and so on seem best quality build.
I've had all sorts come here to my range. Some of that eastern stuff is true garbage, the europeans do a lot better build generally. But so far, not one has made me want it. Maybe it's just me, but a 100% reliable AR, as I have just beats it on every level for what I do or might have to do. I like a little more standoff distance than the 7.62x39 will give me a sure effective hit at. And it's rare around here to see one that doesn't jam frequently (often due to ignorant owners and bad ammo, granted, but this is just real life data taken on a range I own).

But the looseness goes away very fast with the propellant Wolf uses - and now it's tight. A sniper may not be an assault weapon expert, it's a very different job, and snipers clean their guns all the time (that whole one-shot, one-kill thing, they don't shoot much unless they suck at it), where you can totally foul an SKS in one clip with Wolf to the point of jamming - I've seen it on my firing range too many times.

The laquer seal helps the ammo be more reliable in the tropics, but it's reliably bad, since it gums up chambers, and gives uneven bullet release tension so the accuracy sucks.

My benchrest 308 is also very heavy, but no muzzle brake (annoys the hell out of the guy next to you to blow his glasses off). I filled the clip with lead, lined the forearm with lead after cutting out some wood to get free-float, and drilled two 1" diameter long holes in the stock, also filled with cast in lead, then made a 3/4" thick stock spacer out of lead to get the length of pull as I desired and make it even heavier.
It's still a bit much to fire 80 times in a row off a bench...and I've replaced it for long distance competition with a homebrew 6.5mm fast twist based off a mauser action I blue printed here at the machine shop, a new jewel trigger, custom stock. It actually has a better BC and accuracy than the .308 "way out there" at half a klick or a klick where we compete, and far less kick even without any lead ballast. It's just a better tradeoff for what I do. You could argue that the .308 is slightly more effective at that range, but you'd get an argument - the 6.5 actually retains velocity better for one thing, and it bucks the wind a *lot* better - what you miss doesn't count as effective. The 6.5mm bullets I shoot are 142 gr and almost 2" long - little rocket ships. I use a 1::7 twist to stabilize those suckers, and a good bit more powder than a .308 normally uses. You could call it a 30-06 necked down, but actually the swede round came first by quite a few years, so it's really that a 30-06 is more like a 6.5 necked up in actuality - and was a response to the german 8mm mauser, since the 30-03 couldn't even come close to keeping up with the 8mm (which is BTW, no fun whatever to shoot in the original gun. Light gun, steel buttplate for your shooting comfort).

Guys, it's not like the ammo makers don't know how - they do. The issue is they have to stick to the lower end of all the SAAMI spec sizes so their stuff fits in anything. The gun makers stick to the other end of the tolerance band for the same reason. Rattle-fit ammo is never accurate, period. This is why I handload - I can make things fit perfectly, and that's worth more than 4::1 accuracy in moa in many guns, all by itself.

If you actually need a gun, sniper style, the worst thing you can do is miss. Ask John Plaster - now everyone for a mile knows about you, have a guess which direction you're in, and are now looking for you. Your next shot is going to raise your insurance premiums quite a bit...because it will nail your position for return fire.
Less is sometimes more. Just depends on the situation.
 

DoChenRollingBearing

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Excellent gun info above, thanks guys for passing along your comments.

I have an "AK-47" (semi-auto), Saiga brand Russian-American. It was the most expensive of the three that they had the LGS 2 - 3 years ago when I bought it ($900 and something). The Yugoslav was $600 and something and the Romanian $500 and something. But, they told me the Saiga was better, and the "finish" was better too. Also, "a guy" at a gun show recommended that I not buy a Romanian...

[FYI: another guy at my LGS told me the Saiga now runs $2900... So, THAT investment has done better than any other I have made over the past 3 years or so]

I have not had a chance to shoot my Tula (Russia) yet (only shoot it outdoors, they (LGS and Range (LGSAR?)) told me the steel bullets ricochet inside...), although all of mags are now loaded up with it, so I need to get out there... And, yes, l I will clean it after shooting the Tula...

One of the reasons I went with the AK rather than an AR is I wanted something that was both:

1) drop-dead simple for me to operate, field-strip and clean

2) would not jam...

My understanding is that most AKs will "eat" almost any 7.62 * 39 round OK, as the thing was designed to be operated by teenage morons (hey, I wanted simple!). I have put about 1000 rounds through it, not a SINGLE problem (unlike my Beretta 9 mm, jammed once on firing the first magazine...).

The AK, of course, is not meant to be accurate, it is for teenage morons by design! I live in a suburban environment with little likelihood that that will change. LGS told me that most urban combat takes place at 100 meters or less... So, the Saiga seemed to be the optimal choice for me.

***

A good friend of mine has an AR, which he likes. The recoil is a bit less that the AK, but I have shot 100 rounds with my AK at one sitting, and was only a little sore. But, my friend's AR has jammed TWICE in just a handful of visits that we have made to the ranges...

***

My "next gun" will likely be a .308. I am still trying to sort out whether the .308 is the same as the NATO round or what. I also want to get a heavy one, so that the recoil is lighter (recall that I am skinny too...).

A friend of mine, Jay, has a cheap POS .30-06! With a cheap scope. He brought it to the range once (article at my blog), and I shot it ten times (sitting / bench rest). The thing kicked like mule, hear ya Jay, LOL...!

When I was talking .308 vs. .30-06, the LGS manager told me that the .30-06 was more power than ANYONE would need (except big game hunters: gators, bears, mountain lions, moose), he also told me that 90% of deer hunters just go with a .308 anyway, it has enough power and accuracy to satisfy almost anyone (certainly enough for me).

***

Further comments welcome!
 

pmbug

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My "next gun" will likely be a .308. I am still trying to sort out whether the .308 is the same as the NATO round or what. ...
Re: Is the 7.62x51 ammo the same as 308 ammo?

No, they're not the same.

First, 7.62x51 Nato rounds are longer than 308 rounds.
Second, 308 rounds are "hotter" than 7.62x51 rounds.

Thus, you can shoot 7.62x51 out of a 308 caliber rifle, but you can experience big problems if you try to shoot a 308 cartridge out of a rifle chambered for 7.62x51.
...
http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=27466.0

...
Further comments welcome!
.308s are fun! But also expensive to shoot. :( This is my PTR:

 

Jay

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Yes, this is why SKS are not so accurate (an AK is by-definition full auto and there's a lot of pure bullshit that goes around that one). The chambers are loose, some countries do a better job than others - Czech and so on seem best quality build.
I've had all sorts come here to my range. Some of that eastern stuff is true garbage, the europeans do a lot better build generally. But so far, not one has made me want it. Maybe it's just me, but a 100% reliable AR, as I have just beats it on every level for what I do or might have to do. I like a little more standoff distance than the 7.62x39 will give me a sure effective hit at. And it's rare around here to see one that doesn't jam frequently (often due to ignorant owners and bad ammo, granted, but this is just real life data taken on a range I own).

But the looseness goes away very fast with the propellant Wolf uses - and now it's tight. A sniper may not be an assault weapon expert, it's a very different job, and snipers clean their guns all the time (that whole one-shot, one-kill thing, they don't shoot much unless they suck at it), where you can totally foul an SKS in one clip with Wolf to the point of jamming - I've seen it on my firing range too many times.

The laquer seal helps the ammo be more reliable in the tropics, but it's reliably bad, since it gums up chambers, and gives uneven bullet release tension so the accuracy sucks.

My benchrest 308 is also very heavy, but no muzzle brake (annoys the hell out of the guy next to you to blow his glasses off). I filled the clip with lead, lined the forearm with lead after cutting out some wood to get free-float, and drilled two 1" diameter long holes in the stock, also filled with cast in lead, then made a 3/4" thick stock spacer out of lead to get the length of pull as I desired and make it even heavier.
It's still a bit much to fire 80 times in a row off a bench...and I've replaced it for long distance competition with a homebrew 6.5mm fast twist based off a mauser action I blue printed here at the machine shop, a new jewel trigger, custom stock. It actually has a better BC and accuracy than the .308 "way out there" at half a klick or a klick where we compete, and far less kick even without any lead ballast. It's just a better tradeoff for what I do. You could argue that the .308 is slightly more effective at that range, but you'd get an argument - the 6.5 actually retains velocity better for one thing, and it bucks the wind a *lot* better - what you miss doesn't count as effective. The 6.5mm bullets I shoot are 142 gr and almost 2" long - little rocket ships. I use a 1::7 twist to stabilize those suckers, and a good bit more powder than a .308 normally uses. You could call it a 30-06 necked down, but actually the swede round came first by quite a few years, so it's really that a 30-06 is more like a 6.5 necked up in actuality - and was a response to the german 8mm mauser, since the 30-03 couldn't even come close to keeping up with the 8mm (which is BTW, no fun whatever to shoot in the original gun. Light gun, steel buttplate for your shooting comfort).

Guys, it's not like the ammo makers don't know how - they do. The issue is they have to stick to the lower end of all the SAAMI spec sizes so their stuff fits in anything. The gun makers stick to the other end of the tolerance band for the same reason. Rattle-fit ammo is never accurate, period. This is why I handload - I can make things fit perfectly, and that's worth more than 4::1 accuracy in moa in many guns, all by itself.

If you actually need a gun, sniper style, the worst thing you can do is miss. Ask John Plaster - now everyone for a mile knows about you, have a guess which direction you're in, and are now looking for you. Your next shot is going to raise your insurance premiums quite a bit...because it will nail your position for return fire.
Less is sometimes more. Just depends on the situation.
q: why is there a forklift in the parking lot at the range?
a: Oh, DCF is zeroing in his .308 today...

:)
 

DCFusor

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Close to reality Jay.:clap: But actually my two heaviest guns are a Grizzly in .50 bmg (5+ foot barrel), and my unlimited class benchrest homebrew which shoots 6 ppc out of a bull barrel - which is 1.5" in diameter at the muzzle end - there are cars with less steel in the engine block. Now that one is sort of a two man carry if you have to go more than 20 feet with it. Not exactly a "tactical assault" gun. Real good though if you want to put one inside .05" at 100 yds, though - it's good enough to replace a cheap drill press at that range. I shoot the 6ppc free recoil and it only moves back on the bags about half an inch on a shot. It's a set trigger with a 10 gram release...all you have to do is "think blam" and it's off.

No one in their right mind shoots that .50 off the shoulder. It's not a Barret-class muzzle brake and I've seen it lift 300 lb guys off their feet shooting it off a bipod from a table. It's mostly for show (it's the sign for my gunsmith shop), as is my carbon-15 pistol (pelosi's worst nightmare with a 30 rd clip) that is just not possible to make accurate. It's my version of an SKS, but it's reliable. It's my second noisiest gun, as you might expect from shooting .223 out of an effectively 3.5" long barrel - it's all noise and fire, not much else, but if you miss you at least set their hair on fire with the blast.

Edit:
You can usually, if not always, shoot NATO out of a ".308", the specs are the same. However, all these specs have a tolerance band. In general, the military looks for feed reliability more than anything, so their ammo will in general fit loose, even though the paper tolerance band for NATO is wider. There have been a few cases of nato 5.62 not fitting in a commercial .223 gun that had a tight chamber. Assuming DoChen is getting a bolt action - the easy rule is if it's hard to shove in there, don't - it will be harder to get back out. My Ruger (not necessarily recommended) .308 has never had an issue with nato ammo, particularly that with the + (sniper) headstamp, which tends to be on the large side for tight fit, but honestly, I don't shoot milsurp out of a good barrel, especially not that one I had to spend almost 20 hours lapping because they made it so shitty (toolmarks everywhere, including a grinchy trigger I had to lap too). When I bought that gun, a beer can at 100 yds was safe from you with a box of ammo. Now a fly isn't safe on a single shot at the same range - there IS something to being a gunsmith, the profession has a reason to exist.

They must have made it just when they heard Bill was about to die - a Monday morning hungover build, I'm sure most Ruger stuff is better and I got unlucky with that one.

In general you should note that there is a reason for a lot of milsurp being surplus, and it often includes a batch that didn't pass inspection for the military - that's the real problem - they dumped it because it DOES NOT meet spec - it's more that than a spec problem.
 
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DCFusor

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I should further mention that most of the semi's that come to me for unreliable feeding have issues with the mag feed lips. Most but not all the time, that's the issue if things are otherwise OK (not crap reject ammo or stupid user who doesn't know how to clean).

And yes, gun choice has a lot to do with predicted usage. For close quarters I'll stick with my CZ-97b in .45 and my carbon 15 if there's not a shotgun in reach. The carbon is the new SKS in a lot of ways, but lighter, faster to deploy and so on.
Honestly though, if you think you need 30+ rounds in close quarters, I'd be buying some real good body armor and a "chicken plate" because at those odds, you're going to lose otherwise - unless you are the god of tactics and guns and the opponents are complete idiots - and maybe even then, they might get lucky.

This whole SKS vs AK nomenclature thing gives me heartburn. All, 100% of actual AK's are full auto, end of story - the parts won't even fit. It got confused by morons wanting to brag their gun was the famous AK when it's really a different design that looks the same on the outside so you can't make an SKS full auto. Urban myth stuff.
Not a big deal otherwise - a semi is much more effective in hits vs ammo usage - it's an old saw in the marines - go to semi - still have a problem? Usually the answer is no. Full auto is just for spray fire to keep their heads down whilst you run away.
 

Jay

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Close to reality Jay.:clap: But actually my two heaviest guns are a Grizzly in .50 bmg (5+ foot barrel), and my unlimited class benchrest homebrew which shoots 6 ppc out of a bull barrel - which is 1.5" in diameter at the muzzle end - there are cars with less steel in the engine block. Now that one is sort of a two man carry if you have to go more than 20 feet with it. Not exactly a "tactical assault" gun. Real good though if you want to put one inside .05" at 100 yds, though - it's good enough to replace a cheap drill press at that range. I shoot the 6ppc free recoil and it only moves back on the bags about half an inch on a shot. It's a set trigger with a 10 gram release...all you have to do is "think blam" and it's off.

No one in their right mind shoots that .50 off the shoulder. It's not a Barret-class muzzle brake and I've seen it lift 300 lb guys off their feet shooting it off a bipod from a table. It's mostly for show (it's the sign for my gunsmith shop), as is my carbon-15 pistol (pelosi's worst nightmare with a 30 rd clip) that is just not possible to make accurate. It's my version of an SKS, but it's reliable. It's my second noisiest gun, as you might expect from shooting .223 out of an effectively 3.5" long barrel - it's all noise and fire, not much else, but if you miss you at least set their hair on fire with the blast.

Edit:
You can usually, if not always, shoot NATO out of a ".308", the specs are the same. However, all these specs have a tolerance band. In general, the military looks for feed reliability more than anything, so their ammo will in general fit loose, even though the paper tolerance band for NATO is wider. There have been a few cases of nato 5.62 not fitting in a commercial .223 gun that had a tight chamber. Assuming DoChen is getting a bolt action - the easy rule is if it's hard to shove in there, don't - it will be harder to get back out. My Ruger (not necessarily recommended) .308 has never had an issue with nato ammo, particularly that with the + (sniper) headstamp, which tends to be on the large side for tight fit, but honestly, I don't shoot milsurp out of a good barrel, especially not that one I had to spend almost 20 hours lapping because they made it so shitty (toolmarks everywhere, including a grinchy trigger I had to lap too). When I bought that gun, a beer can at 100 yds was safe from you with a box of ammo. Now a fly isn't safe on a single shot at the same range - there IS something to being a gunsmith, the profession has a reason to exist.

They must have made it just when they heard Bill was about to die - a Monday morning hungover build, I'm sure most Ruger stuff is better and I got unlucky with that one.

In general you should note that there is a reason for a lot of milsurp being surplus, and it often includes a batch that didn't pass inspection for the military - that's the real problem - they dumped it because it DOES NOT meet spec - it's more that than a spec problem.
My .308s a Ruger M77 Mark2, I'm happy with it, but I'm not demanding much.
glad to hear that about NATO stuff, good to know in a pinch. Coworkers cousin had a .50, he said he sold it "because you could get HURT with that gun". And he's a BIG guy.
 

Jay

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I should further mention that most of the semi's that come to me for unreliable feeding have issues with the mag feed lips. Most but not all the time, that's the issue if things are otherwise OK (not crap reject ammo or stupid user who doesn't know how to clean).

And yes, gun choice has a lot to do with predicted usage. For close quarters I'll stick with my CZ-97b in .45 and my carbon 15 if there's not a shotgun in reach. The carbon is the new SKS in a lot of ways, but lighter, faster to deploy and so on.
Honestly though, if you think you need 30+ rounds in close quarters, I'd be buying some real good body armor and a "chicken plate" because at those odds, you're going to lose otherwise - unless you are the god of tactics and guns and the opponents are complete idiots - and maybe even then, they might get lucky.

This whole SKS vs AK nomenclature thing gives me heartburn. All, 100% of actual AK's are full auto, end of story - the parts won't even fit. It got confused by morons wanting to brag their gun was the famous AK when it's really a different design that looks the same on the outside so you can't make an SKS full auto. Urban myth stuff.
Not a big deal otherwise - a semi is much more effective in hits vs ammo usage - it's an old saw in the marines - go to semi - still have a problem? Usually the answer is no. Full auto is just for spray fire to keep their heads down whilst you run away.
there won't be any firefights at my house. Although all the kids like to shoot, the wife can shoot but doesn't like it, and we practice "gun safety" we are probably tactically one step up from "un-armed".
 

DoChenRollingBearing

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Thanks again Jay, Bug and DCFusor! I will be taking my time looking into the .308 purchase.

Picked up another 100 rds. of 7.62 * 39 just today (same Fiocchi Hungary) while I was in the neighborhood.

Oh, and a bit more gold too...
 

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Since I last posted to this thread I had not gone to the store, trying to lay low and let all this nonsense blow over (enough already...).

There was something I wanted to pick up from the electronics store last weekend, which happens to be next to the bullet store.


The shelves were full, hurray! Last time I went it looked like the Soviet grocery store, but no longer. However, the variety of what filled the shelves is still not quite normal. NATO, Soviet, and the common handgun calibers were still not to be found.

Shot shells were plentiful and probably took up a good 65% of the shelves, which is higher than at pre-crazy. Being someone who enjoys shotgun and would grab one first while at home, I was happy. Picked up plenty of skeet loads in 12 and 20. They had tons of slugs in 12, 20, .410, buckshot in 12, and even a few boxes of 16 and 28. I still haven't found any 20ga 00 though, no big deal since when 00 is required I'd grab the 12ga first anyways.

For rifles the selection was also pretty good. 30-06, 7mm Mauser, .243, .270, .204 Ruger, and some .222 (got my hopes up for a second with that!) where all easy to be had.

Handguns it where it got interesting...

They had 4 boxes of Makarov (emphasis on had :wave:), .45 GAP, and plenty of .41 mag and .44 mag. They even had some 7.62 Nagant.

I went back again today and the sitaution was basically the same, and they even still had 4 boxes of Mak. There were 3 boxes of .357 Sig for about $28, Winchester white box but not the bargain basement white box; I think that was a normal price.

They have .327 Fed mag and .32 S&W all day long. So much so that, while I have been planning to get a GP100 .357 as soon as I can find one, I'm actually thinking about a .327, 7-rounds. For carry pistol I was also thinking of getting a .40 or .357sig with conversion barrels for the other (and maybe 9mm).

The gun cases had what seemed like a normal supply as well, Glocks, M&Ps, Sigs etc. I didn't check for "assault" rifles though.

While things haven't returned to normal, it is certainly getting better.
 

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Ammo is still weird here in Central Florida. There is a strange mix of available stuff, but still a drought on .223/5.56, 7.62 x 39, 9mm, .40, ,45 and other popular rounds are nowhere to be seen, or only available in super premium varieties. We're laying low as well, hoping this calms down soon. Hopefully, with so much demand pulled forward, when the dust settles there will be much more competition and lower prices.
 

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cases and cases of NATO and russian stuff here, nothing else. Don't know why. Gun show next weekend, so guess I'll go take a look (at the same 30-30 I've been looking at for two years). Might find some ammo there, but we've quit shooting.
 

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Location, Location, Location


In the news this week, a Southern California man was put under 72-hour psychiatric observation when it was found he owned 100 guns and had (by rough estimate) one million rounds of ammunition stored in his home.
The house also has a secret escape tunnel.

The television reporter said: "Wow! He has about a million machine gun bullets!" and the headline referred to it as a "massive weapons cache."

By California standards someone owning even 100,000 rounds would be called "mentally unstable."
If he lived elsewhere, such as Arizona , he'd be called "an avid gun collector. "
In Oklahoma , he'd be called "a novice gun collector."
In Utah , he'd be called "moderately well prepared", but they'd probably reserve judgment until they made sure that he had a corresponding quantity of stored food.
In Montana , he'd be called "the neighborhood 'Go-To' guy."
In Idaho , he'd be called "a likely gubernatorial candidate."
In Wyoming , he'd be called "an eligible bachelor".
and... In Texas , he'd be called "a Hunting Buddy."
 

Jay

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cases and cases of NATO and russian stuff here, nothing else. Don't know why. Gun show next weekend, so guess I'll go take a look (at the same 30-30 I've been looking at for two years). Might find some ammo there, but we've quit shooting.
never did go to the gun show. My friend has five cases of 5,000 each .22lr. So we were looking at Gunbot.com and a case goes for 1449. He's like "maybe I should sell it..."
 

Jay

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went to Wallyworld (for something else). checked out the ammo, NOTHING on the shelf except many, many boxes and brands of 30-06, for 19.95. I have lots of that cal. Then went to local hardware store (for something else). Every cal in stock, at pre-freakout prices, mostly. Shelves of .223, federal at 23.99 a box. No .22 though. Got my sandpaper and went home. :)
 
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