What size do you buy?

[mike]

Hi guys, long time, no see!

I sold some 100g Au bars recently, and I thought I'd pass on some info for consideration.

When buying gold bars, my philosophy has always been to buy the biggest sizes I could afford because the premium is lower the bigger you go. For example, instead of buying 10 x 10g bars, I would buy 1 x 100g. This is what I have been doing for decades.

Recently, I had to cash in some bars to make a down payment on a house. It was actually the first time I've ever sold any PMs I sold to a local dealer. Since my bars were in 100g increments, the bank transfers were large enough to raise some eyebrows at the bank.

In the future, I think I'll be buying smaller bars. And if I need to sell, I will start selling them early, with some time between each sale.

 

[pmbug]

Hey mike! Great to hear from you again. Are you still in Sweden?

 

[mike]

I sure am. Can't believe you remembered

 

[pmbug]

Well .. it is posted in your "Location:" field in your profile..

What is your take on the current sentiment regarding gold and silver in Sweden? Do they have VAT or other obstacles to buying/selling physical metal over there?

There has been tremendous progress over here amongst the States with enacting sound money legislation (removing sales and capital gains taxes, enabling State treasuries to invest in gold/silver, building vaults/depositories, and lately rolling out State issued gold and silver backed digital payment systems):

S

Individual US States push for gold and silver legalization

Jan 23, 2012

Any Utahns here at pmbug?
How is it going?
Do Utah coin dealers profit from this?

<video no longer available>

• swissaustrian
• legal tender monetize
• Replies: 289
• Forum: PM Bug

 

[mike]

In Sweden, there is 25% sales tax on silver, but no sales tax on gold. However, when you sell gold, you might have to pay tax on the "profit" if your bank reports you.

Sadly, Sweden is super progressive, and is trying to go cashless, so PMs are too far down the totem pole to get any attention. There has been some legislative push to keep cash alive, even though only a minority of us know its importance.

 

[pmbug]

... Since my bars were in 100g increments, the bank transfers were large enough to raise some eyebrows at the bank. ...

This is one of the issues that concern me with the price of gold heading up. Imagine gold hitting $10k/toz. Selling a one toz bar/coin might trigger all kinds of reporting nonsense. Fractional denominations might have a slightly higher premium, but they also might ensure greater privacy down the road.

Another consideration is liquidity. There's a larger market for denominations that are affordable to a wider audience. As metals go to the moon, the public will get increasingly priced out of larger format bars - reducing demand for them.

 

[KnowWhy]

Even selling smaller stuff, enough for a down payment is notable to a bank.

Cashless sucks.

Was in Greece Oct 2024 and the (busy) ATMs were dispensing 50 Euro notes( not little $20 bills.) People were paying for nice, clean hotel rooms in cash. They know.

 

[Fatrat]

I never bought big because big bars didn't move well. As the prices continue to rise it will just get harder.

 

[pmbug]

Hey mike! ... Are you still in Sweden?

I sure am....

Busted!

 

[Unca Walt]

I never bought big because big bars didn't move well. As the prices continue to rise it will just get harder.

There it is. I believe I am the oldest goldbug here, having begun stashing Krugerrands when they were going for $198 in-hand including vigorish.

Big gold bars vs K-rands: Gold bars cost less to buy at spot... but the fargin spot keeps going up, so the extra vigorish for K-rands is immaterial.

BUT!! <-- WHEN you decide/must sell, a gold bar is... suspect. <-- Does it have base metal rods inside? Even if good, a gold bar is also over the $9,999 "trip wire" gummint notification requirement, which means Unca Sugar is aware of every damn' thing you do with your gold bar; when/where/how much you bought it for, and when/where/how much you sold it for.

Not so with NON-numismatic, world-recognized Krugerrands. And they stack in the same volume as a gold bar. And NOBODY but you and the LCD knows you have bought/sold any.

Prove me wrong.

 

[SilverStacker]

I buy 1 oz coins cause they look so pretty. But they are being priced out of my range. I can maybe buy one every other month but at a cost to my silver stacking.

 

[Voodoo]

I bought a variety because I like Diversity.... and options.

 

[nickndfl]

Even 100 coronas are expensive now and they are only .9802 ounces. You can still fond 1 oz krugerrands at spot, but spot is expensive. Best deals I have seen recently are 1/4 oz. random sovereign gold coins at spot + $6 which is easier.

 

[Casey Jones]

There it is. I believe I am the oldest goldbug here, having begun stashing Krugerrands when they were going for $198 in-hand including vigorish.

Big gold bars vs K-rands: Gold bars cost less to buy at spot... but the fargin spot keeps going up, so the extra vigorish for K-rands is immaterial.

BUT!! <-- WHEN you decide/must sell, a gold bar is... suspect. <-- Does it have base metal rods inside? Even if good, a gold bar is also over the $9,999 "trip wire" gummint notification requirement, which means Unca Sugar is aware of every damn' thing you do with your gold bar; when/where/how much you bought it for, and when/where/how much you sold it for.

Not so with NON-numismatic, world-recognized Krugerrands. And they stack in the same volume as a gold bar. And NOBODY but you and the LCD knows you have bought/sold any.

Prove me wrong.

I wish we'd had this discussion 16 years ago.

In the Great Recession panic, I decided to greatly expand my gold holdings. Trouble was, at the time I was living in "Da Yoop" - Michigan's Upper Peninsula. If you know the land, you know that it's almost as sparse in population as Alaska.

There were no coin dealers that I could find on short notice. I'd have had to drive to Detroit (long ride) or Milwaukee (longer) or Saulte Ste Marie (crossing the Canuk border, and with a lot of money, and then, gold? What could go wrong?)

I opted for an online broker who I won't favor with advertisement, now. Who was sold out of Eagles, K-Rands, every other form of round or even bar 1-oz products. I wound up buying two 10-oz bars - which I then held for eight years, sold them just after I moved here. Reportable sale? Maybe. Gold price, then, was around $1200 an ounce. I did it in two month-apart deals and I did it as a trade, gold bar for stack of K-rands. Of course he charged vigorish on both ends, but tactfully pointed out that selling and buying was his business, and his expenses remained, no matter what form of repay I took.

But I point this out because that was before the rash of gold frauds - tungsten bars, coins, the like. He wasn't overly concerned. He weighed the bars; used his electronic tester, pronounced them good and we did a deal.

Today I'd have not gotten off so easy. Another disaster I ducked, by sheer luck...

 

[nickndfl]

$2.50 Indian @ $742

 

[Cigarlover]

A friend of my brothers called my brother a few weeks ago. Said he had a bag of coins, mostly silver that his grandmother had given him years ago. He just wanted to get rid of it. So, they get together and there was this coin in it. Been in his family for a very long time. He sent it off last week to get it graded. Everyone that's looked at it says at least MS 65. He only sent me a photo of the front.

 

[Casey Jones]

So, what is it worth/selling for?

Did your brother make any arbitrage, "getting rid" of these burdensome unwanted coins?

 

[Cigarlover]

So, what is it worth/selling for?

Did your brother make any arbitrage, "getting rid" of these burdensome unwanted coins?

It's off being graded now. MS65 is around 5k I think. if it's higher like a 66 then I'm not sure. They did take it to a coin show where they met with a rep from one of the grading companies. I forget which one. He couldn't rule out that it may be a proof as well. If so that would put it closer to 100k. Not sure he would buy it at that price but there are only 139 of them so he hasn't ruled it out either. He likes historical stuff like that. I'll post when the grading comes back.