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Old 08-28-2018, 07:20 AM   #61
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Here's a twist on the cashless society:


Quote :
CBS News
Published on Aug 26, 2018
"According to the Federal Reserve, Americans still use cash more frequently than any other payment method, but could the rise of cryptocurrencies change that? Duke University finance professor Campbell Harvey argues that the United States should ditch paper currency for fully trackable national version of Bitcoin.
Who is professor Harvey (ie. why do his comments matter)?

Quote :
Campbell R. Harvey is Professor of Finance at the Fuqua School of Business, Duke University and a Research Associate of the National Bureau of Economic Research in Cambridge, Massachusetts {d21: Home of MIT, where much of the deep state tech is developed under DARPA grants}. He served as President of the American Finance Association in 2016.

Professor Harvey obtained his doctorate at the University of Chicago in business finance. He has served on the faculties of the Stockholm School of Economics, the Helsinki School of Economics, and the Booth School of Business at the University of Chicago. He has also been a visiting scholar at the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. He was awarded an honorary doctorate from Svenska Handelshögskolan in Helsinki. He is a Fellow of the American Finance Association.
...
Over the past four years, Professor Harvey has taught “Innovation and Cryptoventures” at Duke University. The course focuses on blockchain technology covering both the mechanics of blockchains as well as practical applications of both public and private implementations.
https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/faculty/campbell-harvey

In the video from CBS News, Professor Harvey dismisses critics of his idea as irrational dinosaurs essentially. He completely dismisses very valid concerns over the tyranny of monopoly control over economic transactions. smh.
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:22 AM   #62
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I don't agree that Americans use cash more frequently, not in my experience, anyway.
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:49 AM   #63
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Not in mine either, but I don't frequent the "scrip clubs" or "make it rain" either.
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:51 PM   #64
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I am a cash guy. I pay all my daily expenses with cash.
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Old 08-29-2018, 12:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
Not in mine either, but I don't frequent the "scrip clubs" or "make it rain" either.
Both of those references went by me without hesitation. Forgive me but I'm old, old school and don't get much of what is understood by you youngins.
I was talking about just going to the grocery store and standing in line behind 4 or 5 people who all pay with plastic and it usually takes longer than paying with cash.
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by singleshot View Post:
Both of those references went by me without hesitation. Forgive me but I'm old, old school and don't get much of what is understood by you youngins.


"scrip club" = strip club

 

(and remember, there is no sex in the champagne room)



"making it rain" =
Quote :
When you're in da club with a stack, and you throw the money up in the air at the strippers. The effect is that it seems to be raining money.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...ke%20it%20rain

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Old 08-31-2018, 07:53 AM   #67
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More great news involving MasterCard portenting the future of the cashless society and the surveillance state:
Quote :
For the past year, select Google advertisers have had access to a potent new tool to track whether the ads they ran online led to a sale at a physical store in the U.S. That insight came thanks in part to a stockpile of Mastercard transactions that Google paid for.

But most of the two billion Mastercard holders aren’t aware of this behind-the-scenes tracking. That’s because the companies never told the public about the arrangement.
...
"People don’t expect what they buy physically in a store to be linked to what they are buying online,” said Christine Bannan, counsel with the advocacy group Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC). "There’s just far too much burden that companies place on consumers and not enough responsibility being taken by companies to inform users what they’re doing and what rights they have.”
...
Through this test program, Google can anonymously match these existing user profiles to purchases made in physical stores. The result is powerful: Google knows that people clicked on ads and can now tell advertisers that this activity led to actual store sales.
...
Initially, Google devised its own solution, a mobile payments service first called Google Wallet. Part of the original goal was to tie clicks on ads to purchases in physical stores, according to someone who worked on the product. But adoption never took off, so Google began looking for allies. A spokeswoman said its payments service was never used for ads measurement.

Since 2014, Google has flagged for advertisers when someone who clicked an ad visits a physical store, using the Location History feature in Google Maps. Still, the advertiser didn’t know if the shopper made a purchase. So Google added more. A tool, introduced the following year, let advertisers upload email addresses of customers they’ve collected into Google’s ad-buying system, which then encrypted them. Additionally, Google layered on inputs from third-party data brokers, such as Experian Plc and Acxiom Corp., which draw in demographic and financial information for marketers.

But those tactics didn’t always translate to more ad spending. Retail outlets weren’t able to connect the emails easily to their ads. And the information they received from data brokers about sales was imprecise or too late. Marketing executives didn’t adopt these location tools en masse, said Christina Malcolm, director at the digital ad agency iProspect. "It didn’t give them what they needed to go back to their bosses and tell them, 'We’re hitting our numbers,’" she said.

Then Google brought in card data. In May 2017, the company introduced "Store Sales Measurement." It had two components. The first lets companies with personal information on consumers, like encrypted email addresses, upload those into Google’s system and synchronize ad buys with offline sales. The second injects card data.

It works like this: a person searches for "red lipstick" on Google, clicks on an ad, surfs the web but doesn’t buy anything. Later, she walks into a store and buys red lipstick with her Mastercard. The advertiser who ran the ad is fed a report from Google, listing the sale along with other transactions in a column that reads "Offline Revenue" -- only if the web surfer is logged into a Google account online and made the purchase within 30 days of clicking the ad. The advertisers are given a bulk report with the percentage of shoppers who clicked or viewed an ad then made a relevant purchase.
...
But some privacy critics derided the tool as opaque. EPIC submitted a complaint about the sales measuring tack to the U.S. Federal Trade Commission last year. A report in August that Facebook Inc. was talking with banks about accessing information for consumer service products sparked similar criticism. For years, Facebook and Google have worked to link their massive troves of user behavior with consumer financial data.
...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...k-retail-sales

The bolded section was news to me. I'm aware of brick and mortar retailers requesting email addresses at the checkout counter, but I always assumed it was so they could send you spam (err, sales announcements). Now I see that it potentially gives the NSA (err, Google) a more integrated surveillance tool (at least, for folks who browse the internet while logged in to a Google service).
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:59 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
More great news involving MasterCard portenting the future of the cashless society and the surveillance state:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...k-retail-sales

The bolded section was news to me. I'm aware of brick and mortar retailers requesting email addresses at the checkout counter, but I always assumed it was so they could send you spam (err, sales announcements). Now I see that it potentially gives the NSA (err, Google) a more integrated surveillance tool (at least, for folks who browse the internet while logged in to a Google service).
Back when radio shack was a thing, I refused to give them my address or phone #. It was always amusing how aghast some of them became at this. Later on apparently enough people were doing it they weren't so shocked, then they stopped asking altogether. I now have to wonder if they weren't selling info to the gubment & later on they got so much competition .gov didn't pay them as well or at all? Honestly the stores were far less crowded back when they were alive & well as compared to the years they started struggling.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:46 PM   #69
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Went to get a haircut and almost couldn't because they wanted my name, phone number and email addy.
When I started to leave they relented and gave in.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:06 AM   #70
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Hi barongan, welcome to the forum.

Quote :
...
Cash sure seems to be on the ropes. The dollar value of cash transactions sank 7% from 2010 to 2015, according to The Nilson Report, while credit and debit card payments rose nearly 50%. Meanwhile, ATMs, which had their 50th birthday last year, are disappearing around the block and around the world, signaling the decline of the “cash run.”
...
... The Federal Reserve said in 2016 that 35% of U.S. transactions were still made in cash. ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/am...ety-2018-09-11

#MCGA
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Old 10-03-2018, 08:57 PM   #71
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Quote :
The rise of cashless Britain: the poor suffer as banks and ATMs are closed

Last year, at the start of the summer, the last bank in Dorset seaside resort of Lyme Regis closed. The only way for its 3,600 residents and thousands of tourists to get hold of their money was to join the lengthy queue at the post office or via a single ATM which regularly ran out of bank notes. Those who needed an over-the-counter service had to make the six-mile commute to the nearest bank, in Axminster. Residents with no access to a car or online banking have been left stranded and even ice-cream sellers have been forced to invest in card-payment technology.

“It’s caused real hardship,” says a spokesperson for the local ironmongers, Arthur Fordham. “If you didn’t accept card payments, you faced going out of business because customers couldn’t get cash, but card payments are more expensive to process.” A year on, the shop has agreed to host an ATM to get cash flowing through the town again, and the queues to use it often stretch down the street.

Lyme Regis has become an involuntary forerunner of the cashless society. Nearly 3,000 bank branches have closed across the UK since 2015 and ATMs disappeared at a rate of 500 a month in the first half of this year, according to a survey by Which? – a sixfold increase since last November. More than 130 communities, many of them in poor areas, now have no ATM and the 2.7 million Britons who rely entirely on cash are being increasingly shut out of essential services.
...
More: https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ain-banks-atms
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Old 10-04-2018, 11:32 AM   #72
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I know this small seaside town well.
Wouldnt have thought of it as groundbreaking on any front, least of all becoming cashless.
I have commented before though that with mobile phones and the internet, it becomes viable to transact small amounts. Even at hippy places like festival sites this is quite normal and acceptable.
There has to be a viable phone signal though and ironically Lyme Regis did not have this when I last was there.
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Old 10-26-2018, 07:59 AM   #73
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Quote :
Sweden’s competition and financial watchdogs both opposed a proposal made by lawmakers to force the country’s largest banks to handle cash as they try to limit a rapid development into a cashless society.
...
More: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...y?srnd=premium

Quote :
For the last couple of years, Sweden’s central bank, the Riksbank, has been mulling over the idea of issuing a digital currency, in order to adapt to the needs of the increasingly cashless society.

Last year, the Riksbank—the world’s oldest central bank—issued a report describing what the “e-krona” might look like, and on Friday it called for the design of the electronic currency to move forward, so it can be tested.
...
More: http://www.fortune.com/2018/10/26/sw...sbank-e-krona/
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:26 PM   #74
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Cashless will never go down here. There are too many people who recognize it for what it really is about: Control. The government gets to see exactly what you buy, when, where and from who. They know how much you paid as well. Also, the card company or transaction provider peels off a vig. a nice bit of action if you can get in on it, which you cannot.

Cashless is bullshit plain and simple. The government whines about tax evasion, but the real tax evasion is the uber rich and corporations, not you and I. Our taxes are yoked out of our paychecks before we ever see them. Taxes are taken from us at every transaction point on every fucking purchase we make, so that entire argument is a canard. The middle and lower class pay nearly all of our taxes. A few bartenders and waiters shambling by on some tips isn't even on the radar as a rounding error in the budget compared with corporate shenanigans and the shit teh rich pull off.
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:33 AM   #75
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Quote :
In recent months, a slew of political and financial institutions have raised concerns about the march toward a cashless economy. They include:
  • The ECB warned that a phase-out of cash could pose a serious risk to the financial system. Depending too heavily on electronic payment systems could expose financial systems to catastrophic failures in the event of power outages or cyber attacks. The European Commission has also backed off is war on cash.
  • The People’s Bank of China announced that all businesses in China that are not e-commerce must resume accepting cash or risk being investigated, and cautioned businesses against hyping the “cashless” idea when promoting non-cash payments.
  • In Sweden, one of the most cashless societies, the central bank and parliament have spoken out in support of cash.
  • Cities too have spoken out, including Washington D.C., whose City Council introduced a bill that sought to ban restaurants and retailers from not accepting cash or charging a different price to customers depending on the method of payment they use.

Now, it’s the Bank of Canada’s turn to sound the alarm. In a paper — “Is a Cashless Society Problematic?” — it outlines a number of risks that could arise if the country went fully cashless.
...
More: https://www.technocracy.news/backlas...ank-of-canada/
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:56 PM   #76
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I reckon it was negative interest rates that drove the cashless arguments
and as ancona notes, its the wealthy that would have piled into cash if they were going to get charged too much for the storage of random digits.

Suddenly some old lady who has never even had a cheque book becomes more a bit more important.....
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:04 AM   #77
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Bold emphasis mine:
Quote :
As part of the 2018 Budget, Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond, or ‘Fiscal Phil’, as he has been dubbed after this Autumn Statement, it was announced that a commemorative 50p coin would be released following the UK’s Brexit from the European Union.

The 50p coin was first confirmed when the UK joined the European Economic Community in 1973 and when the UK held the presidency of the EU in 1998, as the BBC reported and while it is not known what the new Brexit coins will look like, I wonder if this a signal that we will need to use coins more so after the UK leaves.

Earlier this year, the Royal Mint cut the number of coins in circulation by half in attempt to move towards a cashless society despite encouraging the younger generations to invest in gold, silver and other precious metals.

As reported in the Express, Caroline Abrahams, Director at Age UK, said: “Along with the closures of banks across the country, news of the Royal Mint cutting back on the volume of coins they make is a further step towards a cashless society and all the problems and anxiety this would create for many older people who lack access to card payments and online and mobile banking.
...
In 2015, the EU capped interchange fees and more recently, banned traders from gaining from the cost of the surcharge if the customer opted to pay with a debit or credit card. Visa and MasterCard have profited off of these fees and therefore, small businesses are hit.

But could this change after the UK leaves the European Union? ...
More: https://www.forbes.com/sites/madhvim...s-society/amp/
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:23 AM   #78
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Two bits related to post #61 (replacing cash with cryptocurrency):

Ohio is now accepting bitcoin for payment of taxes. I believe this might be the first time any level of govco has officially recognized bitcoin as a currency for payment of debt:
Quote :
Starting Monday, businesses in Ohio will be able to pay their taxes in bitcoin — making the state that’s high in the middle and round on both ends the first in the nation to accept cryptocurrency officially.

Companies who want to take part in the program simply need to go to OhioCrypto.com and register to pay whatever taxes their corporate hearts desire in crypto. It could be anything from cigarette sales taxes to employee withholding taxes, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal, which first noted the initiative.
...
https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/25/oh...-tax-payments/

And more to the point of post #61:

Quote :
IMF: Governments and Banks Should Setup and Control Their Own Cryptocurrencies

Speaking at the Singapore Fintech Festival this week International Monetary Fund head, Christine Lagarde, said that governments and central banks should work towards setting up their own digital currencies.

She added that a central bank regulated system could become the starting point for rapid expansion into developing economies, reaching some of the world’s poorest without the risks of privately managed blockchains and cryptocurrencies.
...
More: https://www.newsbtc.com/2018/11/14/i...ptocurrencies/
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:08 AM   #79
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.

Since one of the knocks on crypto's is that the drug cartels & organized crime use them to launder their money, or maybe not even launder, just provide a virtually untraceable bank account for them, it seems strange that a state would do this. Unless they are really hurting for cash & want a way for crooks to pay their taxes? Maybe they want to give them a way to pay something else that we could only speculate on, but it's the govt. after all & the bureaucracy is often more corrupt & vile than organized crime is.

.
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Old 12-05-2018, 07:06 AM   #80
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Quote :
... a small but growing crop of retailers have stopped accepting the tried-and-true paper currency.

Some restaurants in large cities began shunning the greenback a couple of years ago, but an increasing number of nonfood chains are going cashless at some or all of their locations or never took bills at the brick-and mortar stores they've opened in recent years.

They include clothing retailers such as Bonobos, Indochino, Everlane and Reformation; Amazon bookstores; Casper Mattress; Drybar hair styling; The Bar Method fitness studios; and United and Delta airlines (both at ticket counters and for in-flight food and drinks).

“The momentum started in the restaurant space, but we’re certainly seeing spillover,” says Jack Forestell, chief product officer for Visa.

Visa last year awarded $10,000 to each of 50 businesses that produced videos explaining how going cashless would benefit them.

More retail coverage: Black Friday, the shopping Super Bowl, kicks off holiday season

The trend is partly rooted in the growth of credit- and debit-card transactions and the spread of digital wallets such as Apple Pay and Google Pay. Cash isn’t dead, but it’s no longer king. Jerry Sheldon, vice president of IHL, a retail and hospitality consulting firm, foresees cashless restaurants and stores comprising 40 to 50 percent of all retailers within 10 to 15 years as greenback use continues to dwindle.


...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...sh/2063747002/
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