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Old 12-15-2011, 09:47 AM   #1
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SHTF actual survivor story

Really interesting link, I'm about halfway through reading it now. It rings true for the situation that obtained at the time. Very informative - especially about what turned out to be most valuable in that particular case.

http://www.tacticalintelligence.net/...nd-account.htm
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:40 AM   #2
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Excellent stuff DCFusor, will be reading that this evening.

I was just going to post actually and see if anyone could recommend any good books about previous economic/social collapses (Argentina, Germany etc.) ? I'd really like to read some more first hand accounts of such situations.

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Old 12-15-2011, 10:57 AM   #3
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Yes, the first-hand stuff is most valuable. I'd look at it in a couple perhaps non-obvious ways - partly because any actual situation is unlikely to be just the same - heck, even in this one, different people probably coped differently.
And of course, that nasty reality - many failed to cope - would have to be dealt with.

So to me, the take on how humans reacted, and what turned out to be really important was the key - some things would be a little different - a lot depends on the speed with which the S is flying and the RPM of the fan - but a lot is universal "stupid human tricks". Other humans will probably be the main make or break variable once the basics are otherwise taken care of in preparation, so that aspect is way worth study.

And as DoChen quoted - "Going into a fight everyone has a plan. Then you get hit."
An awful lot of this stuff is pure fantasy. This link had me rolling a few minutes ago:

Ok, stashing booze - for dual use seems obvious enough. But Bic lighters as a primary trade item? Not so much a thing I've thought of (but I always have a bunch of ways to make fire due to my normal setup), but it makes some sense in a crowded situation.

A lot of the first link reminds me greatly of a bunch of stories written by Robert Heinlein in the 40's and '50s about "after the big one" or "after the US is occupied" which he spent some time on. Man, that guy was as prescient as they come. Those would seem useful, as they seem borne out by real-world experience at this point - he makes many of the same points (and some new ones), but much more eloquently, looks at the ramifications more throughly.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:48 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by suibhne View Post:
Excellent stuff DCFusor, will be reading that this evening.
Ditto.

Originally Posted by suibhne View Post:
I was just going to post actually and see if anyone could recommend any good books about previous economic/social collapses (Argentina, Germany etc.) ? ...
Ferfal did some great writing on his blog during the Argentine collapse (also mentioned here):

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

He's written a couple of books since, but I have not read them, so I don't have any comments on them.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:23 PM   #5
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interesting 'book of the week' on BBC Radio 4 this week -
'Beseiged' its about life in Sarajevo when TSHTF

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01gcz2h

only 2 episodes available so far ( it being Tuesday )

The closing line in todays episode was ' theyve made thieves of us all ' ............
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #6
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Good find, DCFusor. Like the rest, I will be reading this evening.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:30 PM   #7
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Good post, DCFusor! Enjoyable and informative. Think I'll buy a few more Bic lighters! Thanks for the find.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:09 AM   #8
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DC,

I remember a thread a while back where we discussed Selco and the hard times over there during the war/siege and it was pretty graphic and very scary.

Far too many armchair warriors think they are all set and ready to handle severe civil dislocation and armed conflict.

I am here to assure those folks that you most likely are not. As prepared as I think I am, I am equally assured that when the baloon does finally go up, I will be far less prepared than I think I am. Those who think they have everything they need should think harder. You never have neough. There can never be "enough" ammo, food, meds, guns and friends who have these things stored up.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #9
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my biggest worry is the less prepared friends ive been quietly trying to educate ..........

its not just that we will not have enough for our immediate family needs.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:26 PM   #10
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Usually you can see a SHTF scenario coming, but most people get stuck in denial and do not move out of the way. Some of Selco's writing talks about how people in that city didn't believe the war would come to their area.

Many can not fathom leaving the city/state/country that they have always lived in. They want to "bug in" when in reality the safest thing would be to simply change countries.

Take current day; It is staring Europe in the face, yet most do not want to admit the coming SHTF in Europe. Especially if you are in Greece, Spain, or similar situation countries, seriously consider relocating.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
my biggest worry is the less prepared friends ive been quietly trying to educate ..........

its not just that we will not have enough for our immediate family needs.
That's exactly it. I stopped talking openly about prepping to my friends some time ago. We are in a sort of lay-low mode here. One of our greatest fears is having a horde of unprepared folks storming the gates demanding we help them because we are prepared and should share with them.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by benjamen View Post:
Usually you can see a SHTF scenario coming, but most people get stuck in denial and do not move out of the way. Some of Selco's writing talks about how people in that city didn't believe the war would come to their area.

Many can not fathom leaving the city/state/country that they have always lived in. They want to "bug in" when in reality the safest thing would be to simply change countries.

Take current day; It is staring Europe in the face, yet most do not want to admit the coming SHTF in Europe. Especially if you are in Greece, Spain, or similar situation countries, seriously consider relocating.
I actually hope that the folks in cities near us decide to stay in place while waiting for the government to "save" them. If the masses from the center of our state fan out toward the oceanside areas, we'll be screwed, but if they stay in place, they will be the ones who are screwed. My friends and I who are preppers have actually talked about the two primary feeder roads from the major city to our west and how they really are the only two roads to get from there to here. We have also talked about taking a Cat 330 track hoe out and digging an anti vehicle trench across the entire width of the roads from ditch to ditch.

Of course, it would have to be degraded to a point of near complete civil war before I would do something that final and drastic, but at least we have discussed the dangers posed by a mass influx of refugees and a way to stop it. We can go to the half-way point and pretty much take out the only way in for the big city refugees.

Selco points out so many things that can and will go wrong that it makes ones head spin.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
I actually hope that the folks in cities near us decide to stay in place while waiting for the government to "save" them. If the masses from the center of our stat3e fan out towards the oceanside areas, we'll be screwed, but if they stay in place, they will be the ones who are screwed. My friends and I who are preppers have actually talked about the two primary feeder roads from the major city to our west and how they really are the only two roads to get from there to here. We have also talked about taking a Cat 330 track hoe out and digging an anti vehicle trench across the entire width of the roads from ditch to ditch.

Ovf course, it would have to be degraded to a point of near complete civil war before I would do something that final and drastic, but at least we have discussed the dangers posed by a mass influx of refugees and a way to stop it. We can go to the half-way point and pretty much take out the only way in for the big city refugees.

Selco points out so many things that can and will go wrong that it makes ones head spin.
I am not really talking if things are going to go wrong in Chicago, move to rural Illinois or something similar. I am more talking about if something is going wrong in Chicago (and the U.S. in general) move to another continent!

Many call it "UnAmerican", but that is how America got started; A lot of people didn't like what was happening in thier countries and moved to a place with better opportunities.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:07 PM   #14
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Benjamen,
Unfortunately I believe that this will befall all countries as the financial system and fiat systems fail worldwide. Europeans are scared to death right now because they are beginning to see the light about all the derivative bets piled up, one on top of the other on top of the next one. It's like a gambler doubling down every time he loses, just hoping to get the original stake back.

No sir, while it may be better in some places than in others, eventually it will be the same pretty much everywhere.

Will there be instances of areas which seem somewhat insulated from it all? Yes, I believe there will be, but those places will exist in the states as well as off-continent.

I believe the best course of action lies in the works of DC Fusor. He has a large plot of land, solar power, reliable wells and springs, arable land and a nice kitchen garden. He also has [I believe] small farm animals like goats and chickens. If we have the ability to set up like him, the coming conflagration won't be quite as hot for us.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
Benjamen,
Unfortunately I believe that this will befall all countries as the financial system and fiat systems fail worldwide. Europeans are scared to death right now because they are beginning to see the light about all the derivative bets piled up, one on top of the other on top of the next one. It's like a gambler doubling down every time he loses, just hoping to get the original stake back.

No sir, while it may be better in some places than in others, eventually it will be the same pretty much everywhere.

Will there be instances of areas which seem somewhat insulated from it all? Yes, I believe there will be, but those places will exist in the states as well as off-continent.

I believe the best course of action lies in the works of DC Fusor. He has a large plot of land, solar power, reliable wells and springs, arable land and a nice kitchen garden. He also has [I believe] small farm animals like goats and chickens. If we have the ability to set up like him, the coming conflagration won't be quite as hot for us.
That set up would insulate you from economic risk, but you also have to worry about soverign risk. What do you do if your governement loses its mind? What if your governement decides no one should have more than thier "fair share" of land and heavily tax anyone with more than one acre?

In times of economic stress, people have a bad habit of letting the crazies into the governement.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:08 PM   #16
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Benjamen said:
"That set up would insulate you from economic risk, but you also have to worry about soverign risk. What do you do if your governement loses its mind? What if your governement decides no one should have more than thier "fair share" of land and heavily tax anyone with more than one acre?

In times of economic stress, people have a bad habit of letting the crazies into the governement. "

That is what causes revolutions. There are simply too many guns and too much ammunition in the hands of regular citizens to contemplate that here. Some time in hte future? Under martial law? Maybe, but now.......no.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:43 PM   #17
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Some land is deemed not worth it - even for governments, due to its ruggedness and difficulty of putting major infrastructure in. The gov has better things to do than to chase some hillbilly in the mountains (me) or some guy living on a rock pile in Montana if there's no other reason. Even the IRS, except when looking to make an example, only bothers to go after people where there is more money to be had than it costs them to prosecute. No one sues poor people...

What would they do with my land if they took it? Too steep to factory farm, too far out to run real good roads to and have a factory. Public water and sewer and natgas? No way, too expensive to put in - took an act of congress to force electricity in here back in the day, and we were some of the last in the country to get DSL internet - and we still don't have cable tv (fine with me). Just hilly woods, worthless to most people, with a nice garden and a couple dwellings that don't meet code. Unless they want to harass me for some entirely other reason (not out of the question! But a risk for all anyway.) there's no point in it for them.

It would cost them more to make my land saleable to someone than they'd get. And it's not in that big a demand just now, that real estate thingie.

Now if you were flaunting it in a McMansion, with your daughter doing horse dressage in the yard and your exotic car collection in a 5 acre garage, that's another story, eh? So, don't do that.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:49 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
We have also talked about taking a Cat 330 track hoe out and digging an anti vehicle trench across the entire width of the roads from ditch to ditch.

PROMISE ME YOU WILL VIDEO AND POST THIS, IF IT HAPPENS !

And then take the machine with all your emergency escape kit in the bucket and your family in the steel reinforced cab and transfer to bugout 2 along your, now private, road.

But obviously not until youve carefully covered your primary setup with a few feet of dirt, for future recovery and use.

Now thats what i call prepared.

awesome.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:01 PM   #19
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That ditch is an interesting idea, ancona - but fer sure would get you called a terrorist, even though it wouldn't terrorize anyone, just make them mad and inconvenienced.

I have the good luck that even with the roads intact, they might as well be choke points for any serious amount of traffic. But a little here and there, carefully planned could be a great improvement. I don't think you even need a ditch - how about a disabled school bus across the road? Or an old logging truck - they break all the time anyway - plausible deniability. By the time someone tried to tow it, there'd be so many cars backed up on all sides they couldn't reach it anyway! Just as effective, but you skip being charged with destruction of public property and anything else they can imagine to add to that.

Heck, a big wreck shuts down I-81 in VA for hours all the doggone time as is, and is already enough to make people turn back across the median illegally when they see the symptom of one ahead. Takes them hours to get traffic going again, usually - because the stoppages are so long people run out of gas, and become part of the problem while waiting.

As Asimov's Hari Seldon was forced to say at his trial - the galactic empire is already crumbling, I'm not trying to push that along, I'm trying to set up the path to recovery after the inevitable happens. Of course, that didn't make him friends with the status quo who didn't want to admit it was already bad.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:14 PM   #20
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smart ways of achieving isolation DCF and along the same lines as i thought.
track off the machine was my thought, cos no one will ever help me put the effing things back on. (-:

but the dug up highway with all the pipes and wires pointing skyward and emptying their contents, is just such a wonderful thought ............
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