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Old 08-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #1
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Fukushima continues

I wanted to dedicate a thread to the on-going poisoning of our oceans and air by the inept Japanese government and their utility lackeys, the equally inept TEPCO. These ass-clowns have no idea what they are doing, having recently admitted that since the start of this disaster, up to 300 tons of incredibly radioactive water have been pouring in to our ocean each and every day, poisoning the food chain. I have a link here to a site that spend a a great deal of time aggregating information nearly exclusively about Fukushima, but also dedicating room to the slow motion disaster in Bayou Corne Louisiana.

We need to be aware of what these bastards are doing, since it has every potential to create an extinction level mess.

http://enenews.com/
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #2
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The blogger "George Washington" at ZH has been fairly prolific in posting updates about Fukushima "fall out":

http://www.zerohedge.com/blogs/george-washington
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Old 08-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #3
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I follow GW as well Bug, but for my money, the guys at ENENews are absolutely on top of it every day. Also, they seem to have unique access to some of the people working on-site, giving them a bit of an edge.
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:02 PM   #4
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It's a mess, a large one to be sure, and all driven by profit motive more than ineptness (well, that's not precise, perhaps "wilful ignorance" is better).

I was even able to detect Fuk at my place in VA under very ideal conditions - a storm formed over it right at the time - flew across the ocean and this country and rained on me. By collecting 200 gal of rain, and getting all the sediment after evaporating it (a couple hundred mg) I was able to detect 4 counts/hour of CS 137 with the best gear the gov money could buy (in 1980 or so), inside a lead castle that weighed over a ton to keep out the natural background I have here. EG 4/3600 bequerel. That's not a lot - it's a factor of 10,000 less than the dirt here - only way I could see it at all was with a good spectrometer, or it'd have been buried in the 120cpm I normally get from the ground and cosmic rays.

Not so bad, for me. More like a feat of detection than anything else.

Note, a friend on the west coast with 10x more sensitive gear than I couldn't see *any* increase over the baseline - and he takes that daily, so it's a real number that means something. Seaweed and fish have always been a little hot (and mercuric). But he didn't get the magic rain transport I got to work with either.

Sadly, I sold out of geiger counters too quick to idiots who don't realize that a new reading means nothing without a pre-accident baseline reading. Yes, Fuk is a big leak - as are the half dozen fully critical, still running highly enriched nuclear reactors we and the Russians have dumped on the sea floor in sub accidents.

And yes, this crap concentrates up the food chain, rather seriously. Thing is, fish from the pacific were *already hot* from the aforementioned classified accidents. This is one reason that it took so long for good IR satellite imagery to get online - someone has to photo-shop out the thermal blooms from those reactors or "the terrorists" might find them and reuse the almost already bomb-grade material (not that they'd live through the attempt - which is why we haven't gotten them back ourselves, it's a nasty business).

I'm in no way forgiving these guys - they did a whole bunch of stupid things in a row to get here.
1. run a reactor for decades past it's design life - profit.
2. run the fuel longer than the reccomended replace/reprocess time - profit
3. build it near the ocean in a place that regularly has tsunamis (plus the nimby effect) - profit, less piping and pumping

#1 is obvious.
#2 means that the fuel when removed is much hotter and harder to keep from melting/vaporizing/catching on fire from the increased decay of the fission products. That's why we pull ours sooner in the cycle.
3 is just stupid profit motive, combined with a fierce NIMBY - note little care/news about the many people in the (poor fishing town) who were killed...obviously we all care less about actual deaths than potential ones. Sick.

Dilution as a solution to pollution won't keep working forever, but just for a sense of scale here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_d...ution_on_Earth


IF you really want to freak out, take a geiger counter on an airplane. You get quite a lot more from that than any other thing out there - including things like radioactive seeds in your prostate for cancer therapy, or normal other hospital procedures. I have a friend (in my line of work) who does this fairly often, and is about to decide to shut a business and quit flying because of it.
http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate...alflights.html
If asked, I'll post later a chart of common doses from various stuff - it's a neato pic. Short of it is I see about 2 mrem/year from natural sources, and about that much more from my fusion experiments.
A flight - several mrem/flight. That seems a bit high for my comfort.

People tend to be afraid of the wrong things, fight the last war. Taking our shoes off to fly would be a "security theatre" situation for example, that'll never happen again (and it wasn't stopped by the newly revealed NSA junk - it was the passengers the last few times things like that happened).

The world I grew up in - and presumably most here (born in '53 myself) had twice the background count as now due to atmospheric nuke tests, which we all wisely stopped doing (other than the indians and paks and norks, who are obviously, stupid). It's still above that our ancestors lived in.
Let's hope hormesis is real and good at this level...

The word is - people are stupid. Don't get me started.

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Old 08-16-2013, 02:32 PM   #5
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That was a really interesting read DCFusor, thanks!
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Old 08-16-2013, 03:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
It's a mess, a large one to be sure, and all driven by profit motive more than ineptness (well, that's not precise, perhaps "wilful ignorance" is better).

I was even able to detect Fuk at my place in VA under very ideal conditions - a storm formed over it right at the time - flew across the ocean and this country and rained on me. By collecting 200 gal of rain, and getting all the sediment after evaporating it (a couple hundred mg) I was able to detect 4 counts/hour of CS 137 with the best gear the gov money could buy (in 1980 or so), inside a lead castle that weighed over a ton to keep out the natural background I have here. EG 4/3600 bequerel. That's not a lot - it's a factor of 10,000 less than the dirt here - only way I could see it at all was with a good spectrometer, or it'd have been buried in the 120cpm I normally get from the ground and cosmic rays.

Not so bad, for me. More like a feat of detection than anything else.

Note, a friend on the west coast with 10x more sensitive gear than I couldn't see *any* increase over the baseline - and he takes that daily, so it's a real number that means something. Seaweed and fish have always been a little hot (and mercuric). But he didn't get the magic rain transport I got to work with either.

Sadly, I sold out of geiger counters too quick to idiots who don't realize that a new reading means nothing without a pre-accident baseline reading. Yes, Fuk is a big leak - as are the half dozen fully critical, still running highly enriched nuclear reactors we and the Russians have dumped on the sea floor in sub accidents.

And yes, this crap concentrates up the food chain, rather seriously. Thing is, fish from the pacific were *already hot* from the aforementioned classified accidents. This is one reason that it took so long for good IR satellite imagery to get online - someone has to photo-shop out the thermal blooms from those reactors or "the terrorists" might find them and reuse the almost already bomb-grade material (not that they'd live through the attempt - which is why we haven't gotten them back ourselves, it's a nasty business).

I'm in no way forgiving these guys - they did a whole bunch of stupid things in a row to get here.
1. run a reactor for decades past it's design life - profit.
2. run the fuel longer than the reccomended replace/reprocess time - profit
3. build it near the ocean in a place that regularly has tsunamis (plus the nimby effect) - profit, less piping and pumping

#1 is obvious.
#2 means that the fuel when removed is much hotter and harder to keep from melting/vaporizing/catching on fire from the increased decay of the fission products. That's why we pull ours sooner in the cycle.
3 is just stupid profit motive, combined with a fierce NIMBY - note little care/news about the many people in the (poor fishing town) who were killed...obviously we all care less about actual deaths than potential ones. Sick.

Dilution as a solution to pollution won't keep working forever, but just for a sense of scale here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_d...ution_on_Earth


IF you really want to freak out, take a geiger counter on an airplane. You get quite a lot more from that than any other thing out there - including things like radioactive seeds in your prostate for cancer therapy, or normal other hospital procedures. I have a friend (in my line of work) who does this fairly often, and is about to decide to shut a business and quit flying because of it.
http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate...alflights.html
If asked, I'll post later a chart of common doses from various stuff - it's a neato pic. Short of it is I see about 2 mrem/year from natural sources, and about that much more from my fusion experiments.
A flight - several mrem/flight. That seems a bit high for my comfort.

People tend to be afraid of the wrong things, fight the last war. Taking our shoes off to fly would be a "security theatre" situation for example, that'll never happen again (and it wasn't stopped by the newly revealed NSA junk - it was the passengers the last few times things like that happened).

The world I grew up in - and presumably most here (born in '53 myself) had twice the background count as now due to atmospheric nuke tests, which we all wisely stopped doing (other than the indians and paks and norks, who are obviously, stupid). It's still above that our ancestors lived in.
Let's hope hormesis is real and good at this level...

The word is - people are stupid. Don't get me started.
I have been following this very closely also (in addition to the La thing, etc.

here's some more bequerel news;

George,

I know that radiophobia plays well and I acknowledge the Fukushima meltdowns as catastrophes of colossal proportions, but you had what I assume was a throw-away sentence in the update that just isn’t borne out by the facts. You stated in your blurb on the anniversary of the Nagasaki bombing that the Fukushima disaster “[s]eems destined to outdo the wartime use of nukes in terms of impacts including long-term loss of life.”

Even in the most fevered dreams of the anti-nukes (at least the ones that acknowledge science and historical data) that is a gross overstatement. I have no doubts I’ll spend the rest of my life having to hear it, but that still won’t make it true. The same thing was said about Chernobyl – that the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_...nobyl_disaster). The real death toll is somewhere in the range of 6000 (less than 100 for the accident and immediate response, the rest on estimated cancers) or so and much of that from the Soviets forcing gulag inmates to work in a very high radiation environment, along with some soldiers and engineers who risked their lives to get that situation under control.

In some ways Fukushima was worse than Chernobyl – more plants at the site, a breached spent fuel pool building, no site power for many days, flooded reactor with seawater, etc. So let’s look at that. First off, no one died at the Fukushima complex as a result of radiation exposure during the meltdown phase. A recent attempt at estimating deaths/reduction in life expectancy (http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/artic.../ee/c2ee22019a) gave a figure that ranges from hundreds to nearly 2000 that is based on theoretical reductions in life expectancy due to cancer and uses the LNT (linear damage theory – no threshold model, a very conservative way of calculating radiation health effects). Time will have to tell, but this will be the most studied cohort of accident victims ever produced, in my opinion.

As bad as the Japanese response has been in some ways (especially in terms of transparency of data) this population will be followed their entire lives, so one way or the other, we will get an answer to your statement, but just like in the early days post-Chernobyl, we are going to see that the real death toll will be much, much lower than feared. Also, because more coal fired plants are being ramped up now to offset the reduction in nuclear, more fatalities and illnesses from respiratory problems will kick in, possibly swamping the theoretical deaths that might be caused by the Fukushima releases (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es3051197).

I know we are also not allowed to talk about it in polite company, but there was an absolutely massive exposure event in Taiwan where around 10,000 people were exposed to low-level radiation for around 9 years and the results were not a devastating cancer epidemic (http://dose-response.metapress.com/l...70v06p72857877), but the total population actually showed a reduction in cancer incidence. This is why you don’t hear about this massive exposure incident in the mainstream press or from radiophobes.

I’m not saying go out and buy a Co-60 source to hug on at night, and there were complications noted for some subsets of that population (kids, pregnant women), but the cancer/death figures one expects using LNT are not seen, even several decades on. Let’s just say rad effects on people are a complicated topic and not amenable to sound bites.

Much of the problem as I see it today is that TEPCO has no credibility left. The Japanese government has no credibility left. Regarding the leaks into the groundwater, they should be providing constant information on test well readings all around the area. This is very straightforward stuff. Dig the well. Take a sample. Place it in a standard counter. Report the results of the test along with all metadata (detector type, calibration date, any calibration factors necessary to compensate for geometry, etc.) on a publicly available website and then allow audits. We would then know for sure if/when levels begin to exceed regulatory limits and if/when they begin to approach concerns to health (a much higher number).

As for the reactor facility and spent fuel pools, fuel removal is ahead of schedule. There was never a zirc fire in the spent fuel pools. The fuel is the potential source for a potential new disaster there. Contaminated water is a real problem, but we know how to deal with it – collection in resin beds, prevent use of contaminated wells, monitor the coast and fisheries. The dose levels we are talking about that have made it into the food supply are still in the single digit Becquerel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becquerel) range. Remember that a banana averages around 15 Bq. That is a nice value to compare to. Again, I am not saying don’t worry. I am saying be vigilant, but don’t panic yet. Save the energy, there may be a need to panic later and you don’t want to be wore out by then from needless worrying.

People evolved in a much higher radiation environment than we have today on earth. In reasonable doses, we can tolerate it – though I don’t disagree that some people are more sensitive to rad exposure than others, just like some people are more sensitive to peanuts than others.

Another quick hit for you – the Great East Japan Earthquake killed almost 16,000 people, with over 2,600 people missing/dead. Recall also that the Boxing Day Tsunami in 2004 killed at least 230,000 people. Where are the calls to permanently evacuate all coastal cities and towns along the Pacific Rim?

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
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Old 08-16-2013, 03:29 PM   #7
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Wow! I appreciate the quick and thoughtful responses to this thread. Being in the hazardous materials handling business, perhaps I have a bit too much training for my own good. Working at NASA in particular, radiation is treated with a respect usually reserved for God himself, and anyone around, near or working with even mildly radioactive items like tritium paints has many, many hours of training on every aspect of exposure rates, different effects of different emitters and so forth. When i read an article explaining the materials flowing in to the sea using numbers like "quadrillions", it certainly raises an eyebrow. Furthermore, another article describes the spent fuel pools, particularly the one in unit #4 which is in a very precarious position, that were it to collapse, there could be no controlling the inevitable fire that would occur if the rods [some containing plutonium at 5%] were exposed to air with no water to cool them. The site would have to be evacuated, and that is my worry.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:03 PM   #8
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The straight skinny was too large to upload here, so I put it on my own site, which needed it anyway.
http://www.coultersmithing.com/forum...2&p=4537#p4537

If you really want to know the score on ionizing radiation doses and effects, here you go.

Ancona, is BTW, quite correct - handling radioactive stuff that might get inside you is far more dangerous than most other activities. This is because once in there, there's no skin, clothing, etc to stop any of the most common radiations - alpha (most natural decays, big lumbering He ions) beta (like from tritium or most nuke waste - electrons). X rays or gammas (photons) - doesn't matter too much where they come from - under about 10kev, they don't seem to do much measurable harm, and really won't even make it all the way through you.
Around 30kev (old color TV set voltages) some start to worry, and if you want a good X ray pic - dental uses about 70kv, hospital full body about 120kv. Above that - most of it simply goes on through leaving little energy behind in you.

The difference between a modern hospital X ray and say, the old shoe shop ones is huge. Due to being able to make more sensitive detectors than a simple glowing screen, hospital X rays have gone way down - but look at the chart on my page - still very significant, and it's a lot worse with a CAT scan, since that's really a few hundred sets of X rays taken to build up the 3d image.

Hospitals have also gotten slightly (but not as much as I'd like) smarter about radioactive things they put inside you for pet scans etc - with very short half-lives, they are hot - so you need less total radiation - and they decay quick, so you're rad free quicker. They are still stuck on technetium-99, sadly, for pet scans - inertia - there are better things now, and easier to make since the Chalk River reactor in Canada shut down, which was the sole source of the precursor. But using something safer/better would mean having to retrain a few techs in the lab at the hospital, so alternatives that would be both better and cheaper aren't being considered. In a cost plus fixed fee world (hospitals/insurance) there is not only no incentive to reduce costs, there's a big one to enlarge them. Add tort, and there you go...

Disclosure - I have an axe to grind on that last one. Many of those better/safer alternatives are easily made with my fusor, vs the way they do it now, and there's a huge loss of market for me because of that. And as a result, a hospital is now using a large and accident prone cyclotron to make tiny amounts of the old isotope - at enormous cost. You want to talk precious metals? Think TC-99 - many hundreds of times more expensive than gold.

PS - GW at ZH is almost always totally full of .... well, you know. He profits from fear. I think he's learned from the government on that one.

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Old 08-20-2013, 08:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jay View Post:
I have been following this very closely also (in addition to the La thing, etc.

here's some more bequerel news;

George,

I know that radiophobia plays well and I acknowledge the Fukushima meltdowns as catastrophes of colossal proportions, but you had what I assume was a throw-away sentence in the update that just isn’t borne out by the facts. You stated in your blurb on the anniversary of the Nagasaki bombing that the Fukushima disaster “[s]eems destined to outdo the wartime use of nukes in terms of impacts including long-term loss of life.”

Even in the most fevered dreams of the anti-nukes (at least the ones that acknowledge science and historical data) that is a gross overstatement. I have no doubts I’ll spend the rest of my life having to hear it, but that still won’t make it true. The same thing was said about Chernobyl – that the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_...nobyl_disaster). The real death toll is somewhere in the range of 6000 (less than 100 for the accident and immediate response, the rest on estimated cancers) or so and much of that from the Soviets forcing gulag inmates to work in a very high radiation environment, along with some soldiers and engineers who risked their lives to get that situation under control.

In some ways Fukushima was worse than Chernobyl – more plants at the site, a breached spent fuel pool building, no site power for many days, flooded reactor with seawater, etc. So let’s look at that. First off, no one died at the Fukushima complex as a result of radiation exposure during the meltdown phase. A recent attempt at estimating deaths/reduction in life expectancy (http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/artic.../ee/c2ee22019a) gave a figure that ranges from hundreds to nearly 2000 that is based on theoretical reductions in life expectancy due to cancer and uses the LNT (linear damage theory – no threshold model, a very conservative way of calculating radiation health effects). Time will have to tell, but this will be the most studied cohort of accident victims ever produced, in my opinion.

As bad as the Japanese response has been in some ways (especially in terms of transparency of data) this population will be followed their entire lives, so one way or the other, we will get an answer to your statement, but just like in the early days post-Chernobyl, we are going to see that the real death toll will be much, much lower than feared. Also, because more coal fired plants are being ramped up now to offset the reduction in nuclear, more fatalities and illnesses from respiratory problems will kick in, possibly swamping the theoretical deaths that might be caused by the Fukushima releases (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es3051197).

I know we are also not allowed to talk about it in polite company, but there was an absolutely massive exposure event in Taiwan where around 10,000 people were exposed to low-level radiation for around 9 years and the results were not a devastating cancer epidemic (http://dose-response.metapress.com/l...70v06p72857877), but the total population actually showed a reduction in cancer incidence. This is why you don’t hear about this massive exposure incident in the mainstream press or from radiophobes.

I’m not saying go out and buy a Co-60 source to hug on at night, and there were complications noted for some subsets of that population (kids, pregnant women), but the cancer/death figures one expects using LNT are not seen, even several decades on. Let’s just say rad effects on people are a complicated topic and not amenable to sound bites.

Much of the problem as I see it today is that TEPCO has no credibility left. The Japanese government has no credibility left. Regarding the leaks into the groundwater, they should be providing constant information on test well readings all around the area. This is very straightforward stuff. Dig the well. Take a sample. Place it in a standard counter. Report the results of the test along with all metadata (detector type, calibration date, any calibration factors necessary to compensate for geometry, etc.) on a publicly available website and then allow audits. We would then know for sure if/when levels begin to exceed regulatory limits and if/when they begin to approach concerns to health (a much higher number).

As for the reactor facility and spent fuel pools, fuel removal is ahead of schedule. There was never a zirc fire in the spent fuel pools. The fuel is the potential source for a potential new disaster there. Contaminated water is a real problem, but we know how to deal with it – collection in resin beds, prevent use of contaminated wells, monitor the coast and fisheries. The dose levels we are talking about that have made it into the food supply are still in the single digit Becquerel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becquerel) range. Remember that a banana averages around 15 Bq. That is a nice value to compare to. Again, I am not saying don’t worry. I am saying be vigilant, but don’t panic yet. Save the energy, there may be a need to panic later and you don’t want to be wore out by then from needless worrying.

People evolved in a much higher radiation environment than we have today on earth. In reasonable doses, we can tolerate it – though I don’t disagree that some people are more sensitive to rad exposure than others, just like some people are more sensitive to peanuts than others.

Another quick hit for you – the Great East Japan Earthquake killed almost 16,000 people, with over 2,600 people missing/dead. Recall also that the Boxing Day Tsunami in 2004 killed at least 230,000 people. Where are the calls to permanently evacuate all coastal cities and towns along the Pacific Rim?

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.
OK more tit-for-tat:
(by the way, both these cut and pastes come from George Ures "Urban Survival website)
http://urbansurvival.com/blog/2013/0...o-or-big-data/

snip:
Say, here’s one with a none-too-friendly tone to it:

I couldn’t help notice your expert article about the effects of ionizing radiation from the self-proclaimed expert on the biological effects of ionizing radiation. Here you have a screw- headed, glorified mechanical engineer, who probably got a certificate in nuclear engineering. Not health physics, not medicine, not radiation toxicology. He is expounding his expert knowledge on the biological effects of plutonium, strontium, and cesium en masse on large populations. Never mind a recent article in that liberal rag The Wall Street Journal, with information to the contrary.

I have always felt that you have a a screw loose! This just cinches that conjecture.

Maybe you and Art Robinson can get together. He could send you some radium salts to bath in. You could have Plutonium pellets on your Wheaties. How about having some Fukushima reactor water flown in and kept in cisterns, so you could drink it’s health effects. Just for you!

I’m sure Tepco and the Japanese government would foot the bill to get it to ya.

Well, actually, our “self proclaimed expert” isn’t self proclaimed, I asked him for input because he has actual expertise that I trust. Moreover, I rely on instruments and data, not the fear mongering department. I know that’s not popular but the truth is usually somewhere between the extremes. While yes, some seafood is polluted from Fukushima, have you measured a banana lately?

Hmmm…I guess I could go measure my banana come to think about it, lol.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:37 AM   #10
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:48 PM   #11
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The more I see and hear about massive fish/mammal die-offs, the more I believe we have possibly poisoned the seas beyond recovery. There was a huge dolphin kill up and down the eastern seaboard again, just like the one that happened right here in Central Florida. In addition, manatees are dying off in large numbers. I don't buy the red tide horseshit, since it's never resulted in anything of this scale before. I suspect the Fukushima poisoning and of course, the poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico by the Deepwater Horizon BP disaster.

All of my friends in the Florida Keys tell me that shrimping and fishing have been shitty ever since the spill and has not recovered. We used to be able to go out in a flats boat under a full moon when shrimp were running and net four five gallon buckets full in an hour or tow. Now we're lucky to get one bucket, and the shrimp tend to be smaller.

In many respects, what BP did was beyond criminal since the Gulf is the "nursery" for the Atlantic. Just like the banking collapse, no one of note has gone to jail. I think only one or two low level engineers got some time. The guys way up the food chain? They're still cashing in on stock options.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:51 PM   #12
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they dumped vast amounts of corexit onto the oil to hold it down and used the opportunity to get rid of huge volumes of an older version that had been banned for use in open waters due to its toxicity ........

( yeah i miss 'theoildrum' too)

And as you say, no one goes to jail.

They really believe that EVERYTHING can be fixed by throwing useless printed banknotes at things.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
they dumped vast amounts of corexit onto the oil to hold it down and used the opportunity to get rid of huge volumes of an older version that had been banned for use in open waters due to its toxicity ........

( yeah i miss 'theoildrum' too)

And as you say, no one goes to jail.

They really believe that EVERYTHING can be fixed by throwing useless printed banknotes at things.
and if I understand correctly, the thermocline has halted also.
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:58 AM   #14
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Why isn't Al Gore on the case? I guess he hasn't figured out how to profit from it yet, proving yet again that we are cattle to be slaughtered to TPTB.
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DCFusor View Post:
I'm in no way forgiving these guys - they did a whole bunch of stupid things in a row to get here.
1. run a reactor for decades past it's design life - profit.
2. run the fuel longer than the reccomended replace/reprocess time - profit
3. build it near the ocean in a place that regularly has tsunamis (plus the nimby effect) - profit, less piping and pumping
Note that all 3 points weren't possible without approval from the government.

Note also that the response from the US government was to raise acceptable radiation safety levels across the board and send Obama to Texas to pitch sales for more nuke plants from Tepco.
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Old 08-21-2013, 06:34 AM   #16
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Quote :
Reuters India @ReutersIndia
FLASH: Japan raises severity of latest Fukushima leak to level 3 ("serious" radiation "incident") on international scale 8:37 PM - 20 Aug 2013
Ancona saw the problem a week early.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:00 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by PMBug View Post:
Ancona saw the problem a week early.
unless the government knew of the severity from the start, like they do with everything else.

I realize I'm vacillating back and forth with severity articles, but here's another good article:
http://enenews.com/biologist-pacific...-summer-of-201

snip:
A close up of our fate to come. Most people still blind to this. When their tears turn bloody maybe people will wake up. The Pacific now unsafe for eternity. More reactors will fail before this gets better. We are fukued.

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Old 08-21-2013, 07:37 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ancona View Post:
... of course, the poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico by the Deepwater Horizon BP disaster.

All of my friends in the Florida Keys tell me that shrimping and fishing have been shitty ever since the spill and has not recovered. We used to be able to go out in a flats boat under a full moon when shrimp were running and net four five gallon buckets full in an hour or tow. Now we're lucky to get one bucket, and the shrimp tend to be smaller.
...
I saw this report on Al Jazeera last year that was really eye-opening:
Quote :
"The fishermen have never seen anything like this," Dr Jim Cowan told Al Jazeera. "And in my 20 years working on red snapper, looking at somewhere between 20 and 30,000 fish, I've never seen anything like this either."

Dr Cowan, with Louisiana State University's Department of Oceanography and Coastal Sciences started hearing about fish with sores and lesions from fishermen in November 2010.

Cowan's findings replicate those of others living along vast areas of the Gulf Coast that have been impacted by BP's oil and dispersants.

Gulf of Mexico fishermen, scientists and seafood processors have told Al Jazeera they are finding disturbing numbers of mutated shrimp, crab and fish that they believe are deformed by chemicals released during BP's 2010 oil disaster.

Along with collapsing fisheries, signs of malignant impact on the regional ecosystem are ominous: horribly mutated shrimp, fish with oozing sores, underdeveloped blue crabs lacking claws, eyeless crabs and shrimp - and interviewees' fingers point towards BP's oil pollution disaster as being the cause.
...
More (worth reading - couldn't post the whole article): http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...318260912.html
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:04 AM   #19
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Fuk is having another major leak these days. Probably won't affect us much here unless we eat a lot of fish from that area. But it's a heck of a mess for the Japanese. The leak makes the ground etc so radioactive you can't send humans near it to clean it up. I heard a quote (this time in real units of sieverts) that says you'd get a 5 year max dose in an hour working near the affected area.

That's not good. Radiation effects are much worse on living things when delivered all at once - DNA damage doesn't get repaired fast enough, so that 5 year dose in an hour is actually much-much worse on humans than the same dose spread over 5 years. They're going to need more and better robots to clean that up, if they can at all. Sending in people to work one hour every 5 years (you'd need a lotta guys to get that shift schedule) will produce a lot more rad damage than this over-simple measure predicts, in other words. The fact it was bad already is probably why not enough humans were near to monitor/prevent the latest leak. It's a tough problem...

Mike, initial rad safety guidelines were set so low under the "linear no threshold" UN dogma that a raise in them was not totally inappropriate - LNT has been proven to be pure BS, rate matters. They were adjusted after better data became available.
That chart I posted on my site, linked above, shows what they allow currently. The net result of such exposure, which few but older radiologists have ever received, is right at the point were epidemiology shows the damage just a little out of the noise - those guys lose their hair about 5 years early, and die a couple years younger, on average, but in modern settings, almost no one actually gets those doses (and note how much higher they are than background or most normal non-rad worker doses received in real life).
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #20
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How does this compare to Fukushima?
A total of 193 nuclear tests were carried out in Polynesia from 1966 to 1996. On 24 August 1968 France detonated its first thermonuclear weapon—codenamed Canopus—over Fangataufa. A fission device ignited a lithium-6 deuteride secondary inside a jacket of highly enriched uranium to create a 2.6 megaton blast. On 17 July 1974, a test exposed Tahiti to 500 times the maximum allowed level of plutonium fallout.
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