ADVICE: Bars, Ounce-coins, or Rounds/junk silver? Which is best in a SHTF scenario?

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Just a little food for thought.

 
All food for thought.

I have no fantasy that it will be easy. The odds are WAY against me, for other reasons - this year seems to be that one of my battle with Arthur Rightis. Art's winning. Used to walking two miles to the local market, I now have to struggle across a parking lot. My beloved manual-shift pickup is becoming too much work to drive.

I say this to elaborate, an EOTWATWKI bunker out in Nowhere Land is just not possible.

I'm in a city of 70k. Rural all around. I expect when the balloon goes up, three-quarters of the town will run like decapitated chickens. Anyway, I sure hope so. The grid goes, we have no power. I have a generator, but the surest way to get killed is to advertise that I have power.

The only solution I can think of, is the Last Stand. Come and take it...someone will get it but a lot of you will die.
 
Used to walking two miles to the local market, I now have to struggle across a parking lot. My beloved manual-shift pickup is becoming too much work to drive.

Really don't know much about arthritis, have you been to a doc? Tried pills?
 
Really don't know much about arthritis, have you been to a doc? Tried pills?
Heavy ibuprofen helps - numbs the pain.

Also does a number on the stomach and liver. It's a good solution for the moment - but not on an ongoing basis.

Like so many medical compromises, this one is a discovery and learning experience. Be seeing the VA people for ultrasound this afternoon.
 
I'm quickly catching up with you. I gave up on the manual transmissions long ago, but I know how many are attached to them. I like to be able to drink coffee or eat something or whatever while driving.

But lots of stiffness in the knees and a bit in the hips. The VA does a remarkably good job of keeping me healthy. I know that's not the case for everyone. Some days are worse than others but most days I'm holding up pretty well. Most likely My PM's will go to my kids,...... Unless the SHTF and we need to use it.
 
As I look back on this thread which started in Nov. 2023 I see that gold was right at $2000 spot and silver was at about $23 spot. What a buying opportunity. I wonder what AU & AG will look like in 2 years time?
 
Best SHTF is junk silver because everybody that will survive knows what it is already.

Will we see $50 AG this year?
 
Best SHTF is junk silver because everybody that will survive knows what it is already.
I just got this image of butt-heads painting the sides of copper-sandwich slugs, with metallic silver paint.

What a wonderful world it will be...when we get to the climax of the Fourth Turning...
 
Best SHTF is junk silver because everybody that will survive knows what it is already.

Will we see $50 AG this year?
not in my opinion........if we do i could see a sharp peak spike for a day etc .....its hard for me to see more than 30% gain but i will take it if it comes.......i would be estatic with 40
 
To circle back...and some food for thought...

We all know the risks in paper/fiat. Every such asset is someone else's liability. The laws are shifting, in favor of the (connected) debtor - to marginalize the asset-holder, the creditor.

We all know of the book The Great Taking. Webb documents how commercial law is changing, creating a new ownership class - "beneficial" owners, as opposed to secured owners.

We know of bail-ins that can now legally be imposed on bank depositors. Remember how the law was wiped away, with Chrysler LLC's preferred bondholders?

Well, there's a moar elemental danger with stacking.

Theft by fraud.

I got burned. BIG time - by Silver standards. Sixty ounces of POT METAL.

I bought this back 14 years ago. First I bought a couple of hundred-ounce bars, back in the GFC days, because, if you remember, there was a shortage of gold. And silver, in desired form.

So I bought them, but didn't want to keep them that way. A hundred ounces is useless, except to industry. I got sixty plastic-packaged 1-oz bars.

Now, at the time, I was a n00b to stacking. And in fairness, I'll point out that the shop also gave me a few 10-oz bars to round up the difference, from the 100-oz I was selling.

But I kept those one-ounce bars, bottom of my boat-wreck.

With talk of taxing PMs as investment - excepting Constitutional U.S. Mint issued denominated currencies - I thought it was a good time to get rid of pretty bars for scrap rounds.

So I took the six plastic sheets of ten in, to sell them.

My guy tested them - as he always does. It didn't move the needle (the electronic bar). Not set for 999; not set for 90; not set for 80-percent.

Nothing reading at all. He weighed it; it was almost 20 percent over an ounce.

No sale. We have a metal recycler in town with a complex metal-composition tool; my bullion guy sent me over.

Pacific Recycling tells me, it's a copper-zinc alloy, with a bit of iron. A PLATING that's less than a percent silver on the face. We ground the plating off a corner, and there it is - the alloy looks like copper.

Screwed on 60 ounces. At current prices, the loss is $2k. I can deal with it, but I don't like to be played for a fool.

I bought them before I moved to Montucky. My current guy, tests everything - and offers to test stuff he sells. I have no doubt what I buy there is real.

But, back then...I didn't know the tools. My current guy says the electronic tester (for silver) wasn't even commonplace in 2012.

What IS commonplace, is the fraud. Little did I know...the mint, World Treasures Mint, has been well known and talked to death on Reddit for its fraud. There's a deceptive ad running, even now, on Flea Bay by fraudster JulianCoin.

www.ebay.com/itm/186066074390

You know he's a fraud when you read the glowing feedback by bots. That damn bar he marks NOT 9999 silver, is priced much higher than actual silver.

My own frauds look similar, but do not have the circular border on the image. Seems the World Treasures Mint uses various faces of US coins, copies them, and pastes them on bars. My set of copper bars have an indian head, but no round border. Those with the borders (there are several examples online) are a bit more obvious to spot as copies of coins.

No matter. I looked at those bars for over a decade, and never knew.

FWIW, on the discussed frauds by WTM, they say - and illustrate - that on the back, it says "In Clad We Trust." Well, I took out the jewelry magnifier, and my own say, clearly, "In God We Trust." Apparently the WTM Chin were upping their game, when they cranked out mine.

Scrap value for these things, based on copper prices, is about $5. So with the loss I've already taken, and $5 to have them tested at Pacific, I got nuffin.
 
I'm sorry this happened to you. No matter where I buy from, and I buy from only reputable bullion outfits, I weigh them all, ping them, and hit them with the magnet. Even this isn't enough because even this can be fooled. I actually trust the pinger more then anything and I'm just not a big enough player to spend $1,500 on a gadget.

This last go around with FleaBay is going to be my last. Not a big loss if it doesn't work out, only a $47 coin from the '30's, but I dont trust FleaBay or the sellers on it. And I'm sure there are Legit sellers but its at a point where at least 1/2 of my purchases have problems. Most of the time its fugazzi picture taking with the seller using light to hide cleaning or mars on the coin. These I catch on my scope but I'm tired of having to go thru the trouble of returning and I dont like the idea of my CC# floating around out there in space.

Speaking of which lately the coins themselves have been floating in space. I bet 1/2 of my last 6 coins just never was delivered so who knows where they are. Maybe its the USPS or maybe theres scams going on but all I know is I'm tired of it. I have that one coin floating in space now between Poland and here and first thing I'm going to do tomorrow is raise all kinds of Holy Hell with FleaBay and the seller. I dont trust this ratings thing on FleaBay ; In fact I just plain dont trust FleaBay. The occasional deal isn't worth the aggravation.
 
To circle back...and some food for thought...

We all know the risks in paper/fiat. Every such asset is someone else's liability. The laws are shifting, in favor of the (connected) debtor - to marginalize the asset-holder, the creditor.

We all know of the book The Great Taking. Webb documents how commercial law is changing, creating a new ownership class - "beneficial" owners, as opposed to secured owners.

We know of bail-ins that can now legally be imposed on bank depositors. Remember how the law was wiped away, with Chrysler LLC's preferred bondholders?

Well, there's a moar elemental danger with stacking.

Theft by fraud.

I got burned. BIG time - by Silver standards. Sixty ounces of POT METAL.

I bought this back 14 years ago. First I bought a couple of hundred-ounce bars, back in the GFC days, because, if you remember, there was a shortage of gold. And silver, in desired form.

So I bought them, but didn't want to keep them that way. A hundred ounces is useless, except to industry. I got sixty plastic-packaged 1-oz bars.

Now, at the time, I was a n00b to stacking. And in fairness, I'll point out that the shop also gave me a few 10-oz bars to round up the difference, from the 100-oz I was selling.

But I kept those one-ounce bars, bottom of my boat-wreck.

With talk of taxing PMs as investment - excepting Constitutional U.S. Mint issued denominated currencies - I thought it was a good time to get rid of pretty bars for scrap rounds.

So I took the six plastic sheets of ten in, to sell them.

My guy tested them - as he always does. It didn't move the needle (the electronic bar). Not set for 999; not set for 90; not set for 80-percent.

Nothing reading at all. He weighed it; it was almost 20 percent over an ounce.

No sale. We have a metal recycler in town with a complex metal-composition tool; my bullion guy sent me over.

Pacific Recycling tells me, it's a copper-zinc alloy, with a bit of iron. A PLATING that's less than a percent silver on the face. We ground the plating off a corner, and there it is - the alloy looks like copper.

Screwed on 60 ounces. At current prices, the loss is $2k. I can deal with it, but I don't like to be played for a fool.

I bought them before I moved to Montucky. My current guy, tests everything - and offers to test stuff he sells. I have no doubt what I buy there is real.

But, back then...I didn't know the tools. My current guy says the electronic tester (for silver) wasn't even commonplace in 2012.

What IS commonplace, is the fraud. Little did I know...the mint, World Treasures Mint, has been well known and talked to death on Reddit for its fraud. There's a deceptive ad running, even now, on Flea Bay by fraudster JulianCoin.

www.ebay.com/itm/186066074390

You know he's a fraud when you read the glowing feedback by bots. That damn bar he marks NOT 9999 silver, is priced much higher than actual silver.

My own frauds look similar, but do not have the circular border on the image. Seems the World Treasures Mint uses various faces of US coins, copies them, and pastes them on bars. My set of copper bars have an indian head, but no round border. Those with the borders (there are several examples online) are a bit more obvious to spot as copies of coins.

No matter. I looked at those bars for over a decade, and never knew.

FWIW, on the discussed frauds by WTM, they say - and illustrate - that on the back, it says "In Clad We Trust." Well, I took out the jewelry magnifier, and my own say, clearly, "In God We Trust." Apparently the WTM Chin were upping their game, when they cranked out mine.

Scrap value for these things, based on copper prices, is about $5. So with the loss I've already taken, and $5 to have them tested at Pacific, I got nuffin.


Wow sorry to see/hear this. I've had some of my stack out doing some rearranging and saw this post. Got me thinking. I bought some AG from a pawn shop 2 times. Your story has me nervous. I don't have much, but I'm going to weigh it and have it checked out if it's not weighing out correctly.
 
I've got it in my head that a dime in todays $$ is worth about $2-3, a quarter is $5-7, and a half dollar about $10-13. As Tazz said no one knows what's coming our way but I'm looking for what I think will be easiest to barter. Truth be known,.....Everyone here is way ahead of the game, especially if you've been stacking for a decade or more and have been doing so as a hedge. If you're debt free even better.
Less than 2 years and this needs to be updated. And it wiil probably need to be updated again in a year or 2. Todays numbers,........


I've got it in my head that a dime in todays $$ is worth about $3-4, a quarter is $7-9, and a half dollar about $13-16.
 
If the internet goes kaput, will anyone know what their silver is “worth?”
Could scrounge a sears catalog from the 1950’s as it is all priced in junk silver
 
if you're concerned about the internet going kaput, go to coinflation.com and print the conversion for your 90% silver junk coins.
...

90% silver coins are 0.715 troy ounces per $1 face value assuming the coins aren't in cull (extremely worn) condition. There is a handy silver content chart on this page (second chart - middle of page):

 
If the internet goes kaput, will anyone know what their silver is “worth?”
Could scrounge a sears catalog from the 1950’s as it is all priced in junk silver
It will be worth what someone will pay. As always.

There will be a lot of chaos; a lot of attempted gouging, and a lot of people holding back.

When the InterwebZ go smash, you know we're deep in The Collapse, anyway. Don't sell for dollars. See if there's a local farmer who no longer wants paper for his eggs.
 
Side note: $100 bills have been worth their weight (~ 1 gram) in gold for a while now. Gold is actually less weight than hundreds. Carry gold
 
Junk silver is worth anywhere between 25x to 28x face value right now. I remember when they could not give it away @ 19x not that long ago.
 
^^^^^^

My take is that it obfuscates the issue, the question.

Yes, I understand that those notes - right NOW, THOSE notes - are infused with gold.

But we, most of us, lacking laboratories, have to take others' word on it.

It's legit for the moment - but it's still muddling the thinking, paper = value.

What happens when others trot out paper certificates? When issuers start cutting the gold infused in them?

Part of a return to gold, is a changing of our thinking. Metal disc, verified = value.

Paper = fiat, endlessly created.
 
What I love best about Pms is that unless you spend $10k or more in a single transaction this wretched Govt. doesnt even know you have it. And in most states its not even tax'ed. Honestly I dont know why all these countries that allow their own sneak thief Govt.'s to lay 20$ tax's, or more, on their bloody silver allow then to get away with it. We'd go bananas here if they tried that shee'it.
 
What I love best about Pms is that unless you spend $10k or more in a single transaction this wretched Govt. doesnt even know you have it. And in most states its not even tax'ed. Honestly I dont know why all these countries that allow their own sneak thief Govt.'s to lay 20$ tax's, or more, on their bloody silver allow then to get away with it. We'd go bananas here if they tried that shee'it.

with all due respect.....they could tax it here and 90% of the population wouldnt even know it happened much less complain about it ..... i have been involved in real money legislation in my state MO for years and finally got it passed, but today if i went out on the streets and asked 1000 people i would be lucky to find even 1 that had a clue about the law that just passed or real money or the benifits of commodities like gold and silver..........probably the only thing that is getting the word out is the constant adds on TV about gold, while i believe most are scams at least they are bringing the issue of Gold to the table for people to at least think about

just my opinion sir
 
A kuio or 100oz. bar is good if you want to bang somebody.over the head.
 
with all due respect.....they could tax it here and 90% of the population wouldnt even know it happened much less complain about it ..... i have been involved in real money legislation in my state MO for years and finally got it passed, but today if i went out on the streets and asked 1000 people i would be lucky to find even 1 that had a clue about the law that just passed or real money or the benifits of commodities like gold and silver..........probably the only thing that is getting the word out is the constant adds on TV about gold, while i believe most are scams at least they are bringing the issue of Gold to the table for people to at least think about

just my opinion sir
Sadly I mostly agree with you. Americans have got mostly sheepish. But I was talking about a 20% or 22% VAT to support the welfare state. And many states wouldn't tolerate it. As well I have to agree with you that most people simply dont understand the benefits of PM ownership. Among my friends in the solid middle class few accept it. Instead they keep large amounts of fiat currency in low return accounts and figure they are rich.

The dollar is sinking more and more. You can't walk out of a grocery store without spending $250 and thats with one or two meals of meat. I understand what Trump is trying to do and that without stimulating the economy and putting the brakes on the welfare state while creating good paying jobs the power of capitalism will never manifest again. And I realize devaluation of the dollar is integral to making our products exportable again. But it is painful to watch the might greenback sink like this.

Luckily we have PMs to run to.
 
... without stimulating the economy and putting the brakes on the welfare state while creating good paying jobs ...

Javier Milei in Argentina has proved that the only thing government needs to do is take a chainsaw to their spending. Government is like a tumor that endlessly grows and kills the patient. It needs to be excised/cut back when it grows too large.
 
Javier Milei in Argentina has proved that the only thing government needs to do is take a chainsaw to their spending. Government is like a tumor that endlessly grows and kills the patient. It needs to be excised/cut back when it grows too large.
Agreed. Without question.
 
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