Argentina foibles (inflation, currency and potential anarcho-capitalist experiments)

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pmbug

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http://news.yahoo.com/argentina-more-controls-buying-us-dollars-180240507.html

 
WOW! Capital controls already? Argentina is still a neurotiuc wreck. From confiscation of privatew retirement accounts to controls on exports.....what's next? They are in just as deep a pile of shit as they were when they last defaulted. Their growth rate just isn't accountable for with higher soy production. Methinks there is some fudging tf the numbers here, in an attempt to draw in foreign capital. They will go the way of Bolivia and Venezuela.......irrelevance.
 

More: http://www.goldmoney.com/gold-research/roman-baudzus/argentine-government-moves-against-miners.html
 
I could cry for Argentina. Can you imagine that this country was one of the richest on earth just 100 years ago? So sad.
 
I could cry for Argentina. Can you imagine that this country was one of the richest on earth just 100 years ago? So sad.

Those riches where remedied by currency devaluation, social welfare, and universal healthcare....

Sounds familiar?
:shrug:
 
I have been to Argentina. There are a lot of talented people there. Food's good!

But why do the Argentines keep electing socialists? Beat's me!

Yes, they were almost where the USA and France were 100 years ago. Elections DO have consequences.

I just hope Peru does not go down that road. New(-ish) Peruvian President Ollanta Humala decided (it would appear) NOT to go down the Chavez / Kirchner route.
 
Lessons from Argentina

For those that think it could never happen in the U.S., look at modern day Argentina:
http://dailyreckoning.com/learning-from-the-best-inflation-lessons-from-argentina/

"He tells us that it is said to be a crime in Argentina to mention the “parallel” market in dollars. On the official market, the peso still trades at about 4.4 to the dollar. On the unofficial exchanges, that is, on the parallel market, the “blue” peso trades at less than 5.1 to the greenback.

But it’s apparently illegal to mention it.

So is it supposedly illegal to publish the real inflation rate. The Argentine feds have their rate; it’s a crime to contradict them."



Edit: Looks like this could be merged with this previous thread:
http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f4/argentina-tightening-up-capital-controls-1047/
 
Last edited:
It's heresy to contradict the high priests of finance!
 

More: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/06/argentina-dollars-idUSL2E8I60BF20120706
 
Argentina has enough domestic production to have a decent self supporting economy if they can just bring themselves to vote in a conservative leader, instead of these socialists who hate productive people with more than a few hundred pesos.

They have been suffering a neurosis for some time now, and have chased away investment with confiscatory taxation and stifling regulation. They are in fact their own worst enemy. Same for Equador, Chile and Venezuela. If and when the socialists take over in Colombia, all will be lost in South America. Chavez has already destroyed his economy by stealing privately owned oil production and giving it to cronies to run in to the ground. For a country that used to have a very healthy and vibrant economy, desperation and poverty are now the norm for many. As soon as you begin to take from those who produce, those who produce will flee. The "brain drain" in Venezuela includes many of the folks who keep the oil infrastructure alive. Engineers, geologists, etc. have left for more fertile ground, having been penalized with reduced salaries post-theft of companies and higher taxation.
 

http://news.yahoo.com/argentine-tax-agents-track-credit-card-buys-141152829.html?_esi=1
 

This is a blueprint, what will happened in the future, more or less everywhere, just replace "pesos" with dollars above, and "dollars" with gold/silver.

It happens to-a-letter, every time, everywhere, whenever public loses faith in local currency - people turn to some external form of money, outside government control - depending on geography and culture, be it Dollars, Deutsche Mark, Swiss Franc etc.

Since "native" people owning dollars, in the event of faith collapse, wouldn't have the alternative currency to convert to (when dollar goes, everything else goes with it), they will turn to gold/silver (probably, more to silver than to gold, gold will be waay to expensive for average folks).

And obviously, government, in the coup to "control" the impossible monetary situation, will impose the same bans/confiscation. As they always did, as they did everywhere.

So, be prepare to be vindicated, but also, be prepared to go below the radar.
 
Yep. Watching events unfold in Argentina is like getting a sneak preview for what's coming everywhere else.
 
Yeah, I have relatives in Argentina. I can only shake my head in dismay.

#fiatmoneyproblems
 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...4e07d2-fe11-11e1-98c6-ec0a0a93f8eb_story.html
 
http://dailyreckoning.com/que-quilombo/

Holy hyper-inflation...
"During the past four decades, when all was said and done, after the various changes of currency and slicing of zeroes, one peso convertible was equivalent to 10,000,000,000,000 (10^13) pesos moneda nacional."

Overall, a good article on the troubles in Argentina. It is a very good example of how to ruin a currency. Once the USD loses it's global reserve curreny status, I see no reason why the dollar will not follow the same path.
 

More: http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ound-as-dollar-ban-backfires-argentina-credit

It's a similar dynamic with money flows into precious metals (see Turkey).
 
For posterity:


Economic conditions today are just a continuation of the problems from a decade ago. I just shake my head when I hear folks trumpet how we have a recovery here in the USA. The fundamental problems remain and will percolate back to the surface again.
 
If you got any relatives or friends in Argentina, warn them.
The CDS market is implying 60% probability of an IMMINENT default.

 
Well, I'll tell them, but I know what they are going to ask me - what can I do about it? The banking system is already on lockdown.
 
Get some food and water reserves and enough bullets to defend yourselves. Buy gasoline, cigarettes and alcohol as trading items.
 
Argentina in the last 100 years has never seemed to learn. YES to what SA says, any of YOU or you with relatives should try to buy PMs or survival and barter items.

Same advice for forward (!) thinking Americans. Coming to an Amerika near you soon?
 

More: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...et-prices-halt-soaring-inflation-chaos-follow

 
...

Argentina is shitting into its mess-kit faster than $25 hooker rides her johns.

By now, the WHOLE WORLD knows that price controls (particularly on food staples, etc.) DO NOT WORK. President Cristina probably has some other agenda she is working on here, I wonder what is going on in that devious mind of hers. Skim-and-scoot? Even she knows this will not end well for Argentina nor for her legacy.

Legacy? Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
 
Yeah, I'm afraid this is a desperate measure. Time may be running short for Argentina.
 
I remember the 90 day price freeze back when Nixon was Preezy, remember how well that worked?
 
Days After Freezing Prices, Argentina Bans All Advertising

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-09/after-freezing-prices-argentina-bans-all-advertising

 
Unbelievable. When do the Argentine people get riled up enough to revolt?
 
That video you posted above PMbug shows quite a few revolting near the end. It's also set to a song/rap that's subtitled, very powerful to listen to/read when you think of what's coming our way soon. I will be interested to see how the people respond to this as a sign of what could happen here when they start doing similar
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/12/us-falklands-referendum-idUSBRE92B02T20130312

99.8% ??? That's hard to believe...
 
Sure, a lindslide was to be expected, but 99.8%. That's a soviet style result. There should have been a few more pro-Argentinian votes imho.
 
Argentina Turns To Gold As Inflation Tops 26%

Despite an increase in risk appetite in recent months, systemic risk remains. As Reuters' Pedro da Costa noted the "global impact of events in Cyprus casts doubt on the notion that the financial system has gotten a lot stronger since the crisis." The Cypriot deposit levy is creating jitters among some investors who are increasing their gold positions.

Argentines are buying more gold than ever to protect their savings from the Western Hemisphere’s fastest inflation reported Bloomberg.

Banco de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires, Argentina’s only bank offering gold bullion coins and bars to investors and savers is negotiating with mining companies to purchase gold direct as surging demand depletes the scrap supply.

The bank began marketing gold to clients after Argentina tightened currency controls in October 2011, selling 280 kilos in year one for 102.6 million pesos ($20 million).

Argentines are utilizing gold to hedge their savings as economists forecast the peso will lose more value than any currency in the world, and President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner forbids dollar purchases.

The nation’s inflation rate of 26% is also eroding Argentina’s peso- denominated bonds to fall 5.5% ytd.

“I’m buying gold every chance I get,” Guillermo Acosta, a 27-year-old security guard, said inside a branch of Banco Ciudad in downtown Buenos Aires. “With this inflation, I feel like my savings will evaporate if I keep them in pesos.”

Acosta’s initial investment of 10 grams of gold in February last year has returned 47% as the price per gram rose to 381.5 pesos from 260 pesos.

With Argentina printing pesos to finance itself, the growth of pesos in the economy has rose 38% in the past year, leading analysts to predict that the currency will depreciate 12.9% through year-end, the highest of currencies tracked by Bloomberg.

Banco Ciudad is the only bank left that trades in gold after Fernandez banned the purchase of certified 99.99% pure gold for savings in July. The bank sells it at 99.96% purity, according to Carlos Leiza, who oversees the lender’s gold trading.

There is a 35% gap in the prices to buy and sell physical gold at Banco Ciudad, while there’s no premium to sell the country’s benchmark 2017 dollar bond in the local market, according to the Buenos Aires-based Open Electronic Market, known as MAE.

Gold sold by Banco Ciudad also isn’t recognized internationally, making it more difficult to determine its value, he said.

The cost of 100 grams of gold in Argentina as of last week was 36,646 pesos. In New York, the same amount based on the benchmark troy ounce (31 grams) sold for about $5,126.

The bank multiplies that price by 0.95 to account for the lower quality of the gold to get a dollar price of $4,870.

“Historically, gold has been seen as a store of value, so as long as options for doing that in Argentina are limited, people are going to keep buying it,” Banco Ciudad’s Leiza told Bloomberg.:wave:

http://goldsilver.com/news/argentina-turns-to-gold-as-inflation-tops-26/
 
According to Google, 36,646 Argentine pesos equals $7,190.86.

($7,190.86 / 100 grams) * (31.1034768 grams / troy ounce) = ~ $2,236.61 per troy ounce

Whoa!
 

More (incl. pics): http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...-government-push-take-control-judicial-system
 
That looks pretty well organized to me, everyone is holding the same signs and balloons. So who is organizing this?

 
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