India Raises Gold-Import Tax for Second Time; Prices Drop

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...mport-tax-for-second-time-prices-drop-1-.html

Gov trying to slow peeps roll...
 

More: http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page32?oid=147564&sn=Detail&pid=102055
 
I wonder if this is a case, not of attempting to manipulate the gold price, but of simply attempting to raise tax revenues in a country ranked 95th in world for corruption.

And hey, if India imports less, thats more for the rest of us
 
I wonder if this is a case, not of attempting to manipulate the gold price, but of simply attempting to raise tax revenues in a country ranked 95th in world for corruption.

And hey, if India imports less, thats more for the rest of us

It seems to be a consensus that India and China will be the main areas a gold bubble will take hold. It's in our best interest that their demand doesn't get squashed.
 
If (physical) demand from India were to be slowing down due to this move, it would be BIG news.
The Ruppie recently gained some strength, giving the Indians additional purchasing power for gold. Now the gov is intervening.
 
I doubt their strikes are going to bend the government's position, but bravo to the people for trying. It's only going to serve to highlight the whole issue of gold in the end.
 

More: http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/view/mineweb/en/page34?oid=148653&sn=Detail&pid=102055
 
Today's international gold market rate is increasing day by day. It's becoming quite impossible to by gold for middle class people.
 
Today's international gold market rate is increasing day by day. It's becoming quite impossible to by gold for middle class people.

My percentage of gold to silver is nearly microscopic. In my opinion, when TSHTF, no one will be able to "make change" for an ounce of gold, because it's value in goods and services will be so incredibly high. No, I cannot afford to stack gold either. If I did, I would be able to fit my entire stack in the pockets of my cargo pants. I like having a nice tall stack of silver, it feels all existential.
 
When money is to be made usually there is a way it would be paid if the gold is wanted desperately enough. It's a shame all the rising costs have to take place, of course but what's done is done
 
When the fed finally raises interest rates, which it may be forced to do by the market at some point, gold and silver will begin an exponential rise. Better get on board now. Gold will become so dear that buying an ounce a year may become nearly impossible.
 
I'm a silver guy... so I read this additional tax in India as a plus. There are a lot of people there, and a lot of people who invest in PMs there as savings. If they don't buy gold, but increase the demand for silver, the value of my stack goes up.

I like that.

(Or, am I reading it wrong?)

ADK
 

http://www.goldmoney.com/gold-research/roman-baudzus/nepalese-currency-under-pressure.html
 

Hi Ancona,

Could you elaborate a little bit on that above statement? My thinking is, that PMs are/ought to be seen as "safe havens", and alternative to cash accounts - in times, when cash is depreciating AND/OR untrusted. My thinking is, that high interest rates would LOWER the demand for PMs, because people would be able to just keep their spare paper in the bank, and get decent returns on it -> thus lower demand = lower prices of PMs, in high interest rates environment would be my guess?

regards,
 
We are in a different phase of the crisis. We are still seeing deleveraging. unless your job is related to the trading of precious metals, just ignore the price and scale in. I don't think the "loss of confidence" in the currency will happen for at least a few more years now.
 
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/01/21/markets-india-forex-idINL4N0AQ3P320130121
 
one thing that cheers me up:

Philosophically, whenever one tries to achieve his goals, by the use of force/violence, his efforts are bringing exactly the opposite results. That is the LAW, not some New Age dreamy-eyes thing, someone could draw the connections to the 2nd law of thermodynamics even (ie. things are naturally trying to get back to the mean, via the path of the least resistance). Therefore, since governments are in essence a state's monopoly on force/violence, all they try to do, turns into shit - when they do not really have their people's backing on the issue. Examples are plenty. So I could really stop right here .

OK, high tone off. Why I think it doesn't matter that much, what % of the import duty is imposed on retail market in India (ie little man on the street there), for the grander scheme of things: Indians are still, relatively speaking, dirt poor. While there is a lot of them, I am not sure if it matters that much, when price of PMs (and gold specifically), goes really high (I mean, couple of times higher from today's) - IDK if gold will be still affordable for majority of them? I don't think so (on the side note, that is why I think that eventually, public buying pressure will be on Silver more rather than Gold).

But it will be still affordable for investing community. I believe, that the ongoing crises (that we will have plenty of, one after another, and there's no doubt about that), will bring more & more conservative approach to portfolio management, more & more people will add 2 + 2 themselves, and realize that the "official story" does not really make 4. Therefore, ultimately safe investments will play bigger & bigger role in their portfolios.

Now, according to what I know, average gold position (it includes all gold, paper as well) in the global, average portfolio, is slightly below 1%. Read that again: less than 1% of global financial assets are invested in Gold (ah, "Gold is a bubble waiting to burst" my arse!)

If/when perception shifts, and this global average portfolio starts getting rearranged, say, some more conservative investors will want 10% of their portfolio exposed to gold. Lets assume, that the global average portfolio will jump ONLY to a tiny 3%, on average. That is three times demand, over practically flat supply. If we take into account Chinese frantic hoarding, the supply is probably getting tighter, for everyone else. And this is purely investment demand, maybe not so much speculation driven, but fear-driven. I think that price of gold will meet that up-going demand somewhere in the middle (rising prices of gold, would mean only smaller amount of OZs would be required, to cover higher % of the portfolio, therefore I don't think that the price will reflect demand increase 1:1, but rather less than that. Which still is plenty - remember, here's considered that average portfolio will increase Gold exposure from almost non-existing sub-1%, to a still minuscule 3% - but what if by some freak accident, it jumps to 10% ).

Price would not matter that much for these guys, as the peace of mind/perceived security of their holdings.

It is just a matter of time, not IF, but WHEN.

In the meantime, they can tax Indians as much as they want. What happens when they do that? Perceived scarcity of Gold in India, even increases = perceived VALUE to the folks increases as well. That encourages imports, despite higher prices on the street - as long as someone can still afford it. They all know that they are racing against the government, with their depreciating Rupias, and ever-increasing import duties. The gov't was rather clear with that message.

Next thing, how many of India's newly formed and rapidly growing middle class, is sophisticated enough, and has access to places like BullionVault, etc.? Will they be willing to invest in foreign holdings of physical gold/silver, instead of home country, to sidestep the import duties? I don't know, I know I surely would, if that means I could get a nice 6% discount over my street price (and likely to grow further).

My (usually long) $.02
 
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I'd guess the reason they upped it to 6% is because the 4% did very little.

When you think of the housing boom we had in the West when you saw your neighbors tripling their money buying a house. Everyone started taking an interest in property and everyone wanted in, nobody wanted to miss out. Well they've had the same thing in India except with gold. They've always loved it and it's a huge part of their culture but the fact that they've seen its' price quadrupling in the last 12 years, well you can't put the brakes on that with a 6% tax. The only thing you really risk doing is pissing your voters off.


Also in India the Post Office sells gold and in tiny denominations, 0.5 grams, 1 gram and so on. So even some of the poorest families can afford it.
The premiums though are very high the smaller the weight you buy so IMO all the current tax will do is make them have less frequent purchases but of larger weights. (For example the post office currently offers a 5.5% discount if you buy more than 5 grams so right there you can offset the tax by waiting to buy 5 grams rather than 2/3 smaller purchases or you can just buy 5 grams with a few friends at the same time and then split it up.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21129436

 
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"The government's revenue will increase, but imports won't diminish," said Mohit Kamboj, president of the Bombay Bullion Association.


:rotflmbo: ...the politicians slash bureaucrats are soooo fecking stupid, they will NEVER learn - although, it happens ALL THE TIME - they see some fat juicy goose walking around, that they have never raised themselves, but ready to be slaughtered for their own benefits - they ramp up the taxes - and they end up with NOTHING, because the public have adjusted, as always. It is always, ALWAYS the same old shit - they rise taxes, and the revenue brought by the new taxes, actually DECREASES. They lower the taxes, and the revenue actually INCREASES, because people think it is a fair share to contribute, and stop avoiding/diverting the overly taxed activities.

I mean, that scenario has happen countless times, yet, the fecking idiot psychopaths, who call themselves our "leaders", they are still in it, determined to "do whatever it takes", to bring the fairness and prosperity to all, by taxing the shit out of them.
 
Looks like 6% isn't enough either:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/02/06/gold-india-imports-idINDEE91505M20130206
 
The only thing India is likely to accomplish with this diiotic import tax is to increase demand. people will see this as a harbinger of things to come, which usually means escalating taxes to stop the inflow of gold altogether and control the value of the rupee. It is destined to fail miserably.
 
* bump *

What goes up must come down?


 
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I seem to remember reading about how important gold is to India's culture.


"Gold has a deep rooted significance in Indian history, alluring people from different parts of the world with its beauty and charm. Its golden glow was visible across seas and borders, evoking emotions from millions of hearts. Over the years India’s infatuation with gold has grown stronger and stronger, with Indians accounting for most of the gold consumed globally. Gold, in Indian history is more than an investment, it is a culturally significant metal which has found a place in Indian hearts and homes alike.

It is true that a vast majority of the Indian population survives on meagre resources, but despite this they find ways to buy gold and make it an integral part of their lives, irrespective of gold rates in their city/town. Gold has takers across the length and breadth of our nation, right from Delhi to Chennai and Ahmedabad to Kolkata. There are a few reasons which have propelled gold to a pedestal in India, a spot which it is likely to hold on to for a long time."

Full article. https://www.bankbazaar.com/gold-rate/significance-of-gold-in-indian-culture.html
 
So a few days ago, Kitco et al were saying that India was going to lower it's gold import duty. Looks like they got it wrong...


Precious metals will be more expensive in India so official imports will likely drop. Smuggling/black market sales will likely increase. Overall, I expect this will put pressure on gold/silver prices as import demand from India decreases.
 
More details:
 


Physical demand for gold and silver (from India) might cool a bit as prices and import duties are at all time highs...
 
Another sign that India's gold import duty is too high - the market finds alternatives...


 


Gold is likely going to get some buying support from India as the local economy tries to replenish retail stock.
 
They import so much PMs it affects their trade balance. Since the rupee is not a reserve currency it devalues quickly.
 
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