ancona
Praying Mantis
I don't know about anyone else, but this plane crash in Ukraine sure looks like a false flag to me. Perhaps the first of many. could this be used as "their" excuse to collapse it all?
Trigger event??
- Thread starter ancona
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ancona
Praying Mantis
Why would any airline fly a plane over an active war zone?
Sheer stupidity? Malaysia has now lost two airliners. This is far too suspect to suit me.
mike
Ground Beetle
We still don't know anything about the last plane that went down, but somehow they instantly knew everything about this crash.
mike
Ground Beetle
Notice all the airplane wreckage? Looks nothing like the empty hole left by flight 93.
mike
Ground Beetle
There was no wreckage in the smoldering crater, and the wing-shaped crevasse was already there since 1994.
dontdeBasemebro
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This certianly does look bad. RT has a blurb up that shows that Putin's presidential plane was flying a similar route and happens to have very similar markings as the MA planes. Also heard that seperatists tweeted about shooting down a Ukranian cargo plane around the same time.
There are a lot of ways this could play out as a flase flag, or as mistaken identity, and most of them are completely contradictory to the others. The world has certainly become last stable recently. And, we're hitting Russia with more sanctions (and AK imports will get tougher, thanks Obama...).
Here are some scenarious that I could see being the case, and some commentary on each in green.
If the Ukranians did it:
-Trying to take out Putin, hit wrong plane. But, taking out putin would surely mean the end of Ukraine and nobody would feel too bad about it.
-False flag to pin it on the pro-Russians or Russia. Super risky, we can detect where missiles are launched from, and one exposed would catch hell from the world.
-Autolaunch (if their systems have it) kicked off without anyone meaning to shoot anything, system malfunction, or some other unintended firing. Systems are supposed to be very redundant for functionality and safety, but things to go wrong, people fat finger the keypad...
If the pro-Russian separatists did it:
-Thought they had a Ukrainian military plane, hit wrong plane (several Ukr military planes have been shot down recently). Realistic since people operating the system may not be actual military or in communication with military, and even military hit wrong targets all the time.
-Tried to take a pot shot to miss Putin and blame Ukr as a false flag, wrong plane and too accurate.Super-risky plan that is hard to pull off physically, even harder to cover up what really happened (we can detect where decent sized missiles are launched from).
-Took out the airliner as false flag to blame on Ukr, perfect excuse for Russia to move in.Wouldn't be the first false flag in the world, nor the last. Still very risky to execute and cover up.
-Autolaunch/accidental/etc Things to go wrong sometimes.
If the Russian military did it:
-Thought they had a Ukrainian military plane, trying too hard to help separatists.Big risk for little reward, nobody really cared they took Crimea and are supporting the separatists, just keep doing it rather than do something drastic like this.
-False flag to pin it on Ukr.Same as above, but much more risky. if it doesn't play out, Russia would be the butt of the world for a long time.
-Autolaunch/accidental/etc Things happen, etc.
There are a lot of ways this could play out as a flase flag, or as mistaken identity, and most of them are completely contradictory to the others. The world has certainly become last stable recently. And, we're hitting Russia with more sanctions (and AK imports will get tougher, thanks Obama...).
Here are some scenarious that I could see being the case, and some commentary on each in green.
If the Ukranians did it:
-Trying to take out Putin, hit wrong plane. But, taking out putin would surely mean the end of Ukraine and nobody would feel too bad about it.
-False flag to pin it on the pro-Russians or Russia. Super risky, we can detect where missiles are launched from, and one exposed would catch hell from the world.
-Autolaunch (if their systems have it) kicked off without anyone meaning to shoot anything, system malfunction, or some other unintended firing. Systems are supposed to be very redundant for functionality and safety, but things to go wrong, people fat finger the keypad...
If the pro-Russian separatists did it:
-Thought they had a Ukrainian military plane, hit wrong plane (several Ukr military planes have been shot down recently). Realistic since people operating the system may not be actual military or in communication with military, and even military hit wrong targets all the time.
-Tried to take a pot shot to miss Putin and blame Ukr as a false flag, wrong plane and too accurate.Super-risky plan that is hard to pull off physically, even harder to cover up what really happened (we can detect where decent sized missiles are launched from).
-Took out the airliner as false flag to blame on Ukr, perfect excuse for Russia to move in.Wouldn't be the first false flag in the world, nor the last. Still very risky to execute and cover up.
-Autolaunch/accidental/etc Things to go wrong sometimes.
If the Russian military did it:
-Thought they had a Ukrainian military plane, trying too hard to help separatists.Big risk for little reward, nobody really cared they took Crimea and are supporting the separatists, just keep doing it rather than do something drastic like this.
-False flag to pin it on Ukr.Same as above, but much more risky. if it doesn't play out, Russia would be the butt of the world for a long time.
-Autolaunch/accidental/etc Things happen, etc.
dontdeBasemebro
Big Eyed Bug
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Well it sounds like it was the separatists thinking they were taking down a Ukr military craft. They apparently posted a triumphant tweet right after and then quickly deleted it when they found out it was a civilian jet. Also read some articles saying that communication between a separatist and a Russian intelligence agent was intercepted in relation to the event.
These SAM launchers are apparently pretty advanced and can take out aircraft up to 72,000 ft. There are not too many planes up there other than a U2, maybe the F22 can get close. The airliner was hit around 33,000 ft, still pretty high and depending on what they were using for detection (radar vs visual) they may not have been able to tell what it was.
Still, I think it is pretty clear that Russia is the enabler. The separatists are either Russians who know how to use these systems (military, intelligence) or they are being helped by said Russians.
I'll be surpised if more than harsh words or a sanction or two are done about it. If someone was going to stand up to Russia they would have done it a few months ago.
May we live in less exciting times.
These SAM launchers are apparently pretty advanced and can take out aircraft up to 72,000 ft. There are not too many planes up there other than a U2, maybe the F22 can get close. The airliner was hit around 33,000 ft, still pretty high and depending on what they were using for detection (radar vs visual) they may not have been able to tell what it was.
Still, I think it is pretty clear that Russia is the enabler. The separatists are either Russians who know how to use these systems (military, intelligence) or they are being helped by said Russians.
I'll be surpised if more than harsh words or a sanction or two are done about it. If someone was going to stand up to Russia they would have done it a few months ago.
May we live in less exciting times.
Penn
Yellow Jacket
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when the president goes to camp david- it is serious.
-- THE issue to me is the illegals. That is a direct financial threat to us.
Gaza- they been fighting centuries- nothing I can do about it- a plane crash- it happens- it is a fact of life.
The border invasion- this is a problem- cause these newcomers are welfare cases. 99% of them will be on every program there is.
So which is detracting from which?
Once we take on these illegals- they will never go home. They will cost us cash- the kids and grandkids will be on section 8 medicaid- food stamps- a portion will work under the table and pick the crops.
Anything to do with russia is not a big concern to me- I see it as in-fighting- the various factions of the NWO- are fighting each other. It means little to us peons which faction wins- because in the end- it is still global governance- agenda 21- a centralized control grid.
There seems to be a quest to make white people look like racist red necks. The climate could end up as a race war. that wont be good.
lyndon larouche- had some interesting thoughts on the civil war- and how the banking elite operate-
no one is going to save/rescue us. the choices get worse and worse.
when things collapse- the liberals will blame the white rascists- the whites have been pushed to the wall on obama care- the grab for guns- and epa rules- the global warming- you did not build that- quest.
the whites did a terrible job- the neocon bush cheny crowd- and cheny said obama wasted all the good we did in Iraq- which totally losses me- I note no differences between bush and obama.
I offered to sell my vote and it created an uproar- it is not even worth $5 and some guy reported me to the county attorney.
I said how is $5 any different then a mug or a tee shirt?
the left worship their hillary- liberal gun grabbers- and the right- is blood thirsty for us to invade iran, and be the army for israel.
the left craves muslems that invite sharia law- and placates the crowd the would murder gays and treat woman terrible.
Either way- both the left and the right- crave and demand for a more centralized power- they presume their side will rule.
The problem is-the other side will wield this power.
I see folks get all exicted on how bad obama is- but their guy- both sides got us to where we are today.
when push comes to shove- people will be in the street for thier party to "save us". the 2 factions might even engage in blood shed- to get what they want.
Libertarians are the execption- we are 1-3% of the population that see thru the nonsense.
the key will be- to cultivate- 2014 misconceptions of popular folklore and to employ this as a tool to make our life a good one.
people are programmed to certain expectations- the key is to tap into that- and unleash the robotic masses to do our bidding- and that day-- we will figure it out- this day is quickly presenting itself.
-- THE issue to me is the illegals. That is a direct financial threat to us.
Gaza- they been fighting centuries- nothing I can do about it- a plane crash- it happens- it is a fact of life.
The border invasion- this is a problem- cause these newcomers are welfare cases. 99% of them will be on every program there is.
So which is detracting from which?
Once we take on these illegals- they will never go home. They will cost us cash- the kids and grandkids will be on section 8 medicaid- food stamps- a portion will work under the table and pick the crops.
Anything to do with russia is not a big concern to me- I see it as in-fighting- the various factions of the NWO- are fighting each other. It means little to us peons which faction wins- because in the end- it is still global governance- agenda 21- a centralized control grid.
There seems to be a quest to make white people look like racist red necks. The climate could end up as a race war. that wont be good.
lyndon larouche- had some interesting thoughts on the civil war- and how the banking elite operate-
no one is going to save/rescue us. the choices get worse and worse.
when things collapse- the liberals will blame the white rascists- the whites have been pushed to the wall on obama care- the grab for guns- and epa rules- the global warming- you did not build that- quest.
the whites did a terrible job- the neocon bush cheny crowd- and cheny said obama wasted all the good we did in Iraq- which totally losses me- I note no differences between bush and obama.
I offered to sell my vote and it created an uproar- it is not even worth $5 and some guy reported me to the county attorney.
I said how is $5 any different then a mug or a tee shirt?
the left worship their hillary- liberal gun grabbers- and the right- is blood thirsty for us to invade iran, and be the army for israel.
the left craves muslems that invite sharia law- and placates the crowd the would murder gays and treat woman terrible.
Either way- both the left and the right- crave and demand for a more centralized power- they presume their side will rule.
The problem is-the other side will wield this power.
I see folks get all exicted on how bad obama is- but their guy- both sides got us to where we are today.
when push comes to shove- people will be in the street for thier party to "save us". the 2 factions might even engage in blood shed- to get what they want.
Libertarians are the execption- we are 1-3% of the population that see thru the nonsense.
the key will be- to cultivate- 2014 misconceptions of popular folklore and to employ this as a tool to make our life a good one.
people are programmed to certain expectations- the key is to tap into that- and unleash the robotic masses to do our bidding- and that day-- we will figure it out- this day is quickly presenting itself.
drAGonfly47
Predaceous Stink Bug
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Flight 93; what wreckage pattern?
I am having difficulty believing PC mentality is justifiable, or rational.
My other difficulty is not ripping off your PC Conformity Badge and replacing it
with a taser.
Please add sarc/ to your comments end in order to preserve rank of rational.
Or photo of prescription signed G.W. Bush/Cheney.
Thanks
Well.. for the tin foil hat crowd.. they are saying it was the same plane.
some rebels made this claim..
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/...ght-mh17-was-filled-with-already-dead-bodies/
and to make matters more interesting.. it looks like Ukraine was deploying anti-aircraft missles in the east. why they did that when the rebels don't have an airforce is odd...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...g-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1
I don't see how this wasn't a false flag honestly.