I believe the super secret plan is to run up the debt and in the hidden background the FED is secretly printing more gold at the Treasury. I bet somebody goes in on the weekend and does it.
US Debt is unsustainable
- Thread starter pmbug
- Start date
Welcome to the Precious Metals Bug Forums
Welcome to the PMBug forums - a community supported watering hole for folks interested in gold, silver, precious metals, sound money, investing, market and economic news, central bank monetary policies, politics and more.
Register a free account to join the discussions. When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including access to market data/charts and additional members only rooms (including one for trade/barter with the community).
That has nothing to do with it.
What would happen is all the gold would be bled off in a matter of days.
That's why Nixon closed the gold window to begin with.
Can't open it back up 'til we get our fiscal house in order.
Opening it now would be like pointing a loaded gun at your own head and pulling the trigger.
If they cannnot manufacture lower rates somehow, by the next president's midterms either the interest on the debt will be approximately $2.5T annually or about half of annual taxes collected or everything will have crashed and imploded.
The gov has had about $8 trillion in debt rolling over every year since 2020. This year it's approx $10T. In '24 it was about $9T
- Messages
- 45,354
- Reaction score
- 7,663
- Points
- 288
Fun with Grok
Q
Can you tell me if the following statements are true and if not true what are the actual numbers. The gov has had about $8 trillion in debt rolling over every year since 2020. This year it's approx $10T. In '24 it was about $9T
A
Mostly in the right ballpark for recent years, but not fully accurate—especially the “every year since 2020” part.
Here are the actual figures for the amount of maturing Treasury securities that the U.S. Treasury refinanced (rolled over) each fiscal year, based on GAO analysis of Treasury data:
| Fiscal Year | Refinancing / Maturing Debt Rolled Over |
|---|---|
| 2020 | $4.5 trillion |
| 2021 | $7.4 trillion |
| 2022 | $6.3 trillion |
| 2023 | $6.7 trillion |
| 2024 | $8.3 trillion |
| 2025 | $9.1 trillion |
| 2026 | $9.7 trillion |
Breakdown of the claims
- “About $8 trillion in debt rolling over every year since 2020” → False. It was substantially lower in 2020–2023 (ranging from $4.5T to $7.4T). It only reached the $8T+ range starting in FY2024.
- “In ’24 it was about $9T” → Close but a bit high. Actual was $8.3 trillion.
- “This year it’s approx $10T” (2026) → Very close. Official projection/figure is $9.7 trillion.
Additional context
These GAO numbers refer to the principal amount of securities that matured and needed to be refinanced in that fiscal year (primarily marketable debt). Gross issuance is much higher because short-term Treasury bills mature and are rolled over multiple times within a single year.Other commonly cited figures (e.g., “debt maturing in the next 12 months”) often land in the $8–10 trillion range depending on the exact snapshot date, whether they include only privately held debt, and how bills are counted. Recent commentary has frequently referenced roughly $8T+ or about one-third of outstanding marketable debt coming due within a year.
In short: The trend of rising rollover volumes is real and has been climbing into the high single-digit to near-$10T range recently, but the claim of a steady ~$8T every year since 2020 is overstated for the earlier years.
^^^^ Lol
As though there's just huge differences between $6.3T $7.4T and the close average of $8T I used.
It's still pretty damn close. The only lowish one was from the last year of Trump's first term.
Also, when you add in defect spending, the total is a good bit higher for each of those years.
The point being, it's not a Trump thing, like your post I was responding to suggested. Having 10% of the debt roll over in such a short time, isn't a new thing. It went on all during Biden's term too, but where was Massies tweets on it then?
In 2020 we had 10% of US debt rollover in six months time. Debt was a just over 21T. $2.25T rolled over in six months is pretty darn close to 10%.
In 2024 we had $35.5T in debt with $8.3T of it rolled over.
That's almost 12% rolled over each six months of Biden's last term, so based on that, the ten percent in the past six months is an improvement.
.....but hey, let's throw rocks at it. Lol
Where was Massies tweets on it in 2024 when it was 20% higher?
As though there's just huge differences between $6.3T $7.4T and the close average of $8T I used.
It's still pretty damn close. The only lowish one was from the last year of Trump's first term.
Also, when you add in defect spending, the total is a good bit higher for each of those years.
The point being, it's not a Trump thing, like your post I was responding to suggested. Having 10% of the debt roll over in such a short time, isn't a new thing. It went on all during Biden's term too, but where was Massies tweets on it then?
In 2020 we had 10% of US debt rollover in six months time. Debt was a just over 21T. $2.25T rolled over in six months is pretty darn close to 10%.
In 2024 we had $35.5T in debt with $8.3T of it rolled over.
That's almost 12% rolled over each six months of Biden's last term, so based on that, the ten percent in the past six months is an improvement.
.....but hey, let's throw rocks at it. Lol
Where was Massies tweets on it in 2024 when it was 20% higher?
Last edited:
Are you asserting that Massie just became a budget hawk because of TDS? For more likely, IMO, that he tailors his speech for his intended audience. He didn't need to educate Trump supporters while Biden was in office.
I'm not saying he just became a budget hawk. That aspect of him is a good thing.
I was just asking if he was pointing it out when it was an even higher percent of the debt.
His intended audience should be first and foremost his constituents, then his peers in Congress, and third, other citizens.
....but shouldn't they all hear the same message? At least when it comes to stuff like the public debt?
I want the gov to get it's fiscal shit together as much as anyone does, but the problem rests at congress's feet, and no one else's.
Purse strings, after all.
They do?
They sure don't act as though they do.
IMHO, we have a GOP majority in name only.
Too many Rino's on the other side.
Thune is one of 'em.
Unless what you think is the United States is really just another corporation...
Libertarians are your Herd of Cats with very strong opinions (guilty)
Republicans are more a coalition of a couple groups, the Economic conservatives, the Christian/moral conservatives, and the military rah-rah types.
Republicans are more a coalition of a couple groups, the Economic conservatives, the Christian/moral conservatives, and the military rah-rah types.
Problem still is that none of them can truly agree on things like the Borg-like Dems seem to always be able to.
Seeing as I am forced to choose, I would much rather have a group that is somewhat ineffective (like we have now) than the Borg-like Dems ramming all manner of f'ed up shit through the legislative process and into law.
Because we know that's what they will do.
What I think is that if the US is made (or allowed) to crash, the people will still be saddled with the debt.
If the choice is everyone plunging into a generations long depression, or maintaining the status quo, almost everyone will go with maintaining the status quo.
No one wants to be seen as the guy who allowed it to crash by not doing something that could have prevented it.
Like Nixon closing the gold window.
He did what he had to do to give the nation a chance to go on.
Had he allowed us to simply ride the Breton Woods Agreement into the ground, we'd prolly still be in a depression to this day.
Certainly would not have the standard of living most everyone in America has today.
Is it perfect? Heck no.
.....but it's a far sight better than it'd be had he not done what he did.
Which are just some of the reasons to not allow it to crash, if at all possible.
It's all this money-fer-nuffin, all this CTRL+P fiat, that makes all this torment possible.
All the planeloads of Haitians and Somalis, dumped into Middle America to vote, loot, cause chaos, destroy community.
All the Jabs. And, as part of that...the LABS where this bio-weapon (and its sham vaxx, which was the same thing) were engineered.
All the DEI. All the SURVEILLANCE.
All the money for Banksters...to drift into the capital markets and Private Equity. Everything from buying up land to close it off to cattle-ranching, thus exploding beef prices...to buying thousands of vet hospitals, turning them into chains. OVERPRICED chains.
Which is worse? The spate of crime, which MEN can handle, locally...or this ongoing oppression, where they print money and then use it, using stooges who think it's valuable...use it to enslave us?
The problem is the debt goes up no matter who the POTUS is.
The problem isn't the POTUS. It's our inflationary monetary system.
Had Kackles won, the debt would still be up by that much or even more.
If you look at percent of increase in the debt, Trump's second term is running behind what Biden did, on a percentage basis.
Under Biden the debt increased by 32%
Trump's first term it was a 39% increase, but the dollar amount of his increase was more than a trillion dollars less than the increase under Biden.
Obama increased the debt by 70%
.....and some idiots think he was the best ever.
Edited to add: @searcher , if you gonna trash Trump for the debt, you need to trash Obama even more for his increase in it.
IMHO, using debt as a measure as to how good or bad a POTUS is, is misguided simply due to the fact the system requires a constant increase just to stay functional.
If you wanna blame anyone, blame the idiots of the past generations that got us started on the inflationary monetary system.
IMHO, the people who allowed the federal reserve to exist and those who allowed the gold standard to end, are who the true villains are in this story.
Simply put, they fucked us over.
If I had a time machine I'd go kick all their asses.
Last edited:
If I had a time machine I'd go back to 1910 or so and buy up a buncha twenty dollar gold pieces and stash em really good.
Viking
Yellow Jacket
I'd just go back to 2009, and buy BTC. Cash most of it in when it went up to $100,000.
If you were to go back and kick all their asses, we could still have $20 gold pieces in circulation.
That's part of it.
But our Political Elites fashioned this debt-based system. They TOOK a sound-money system, GUARANTEED in the Constitution (we see how THAT worked, when the Elites choose to ignore law and the Constitution) and set up this house of cards - to spend without limits, and thus increase their own worth and power.
We're now approaching the Reckoning. The Grate Reset. And, if you believe commentators like Michael Yon, the cost is gonna be fearful, and moar than JUST an economic collapse.
People have been saying that since Reagan's days.
What was per-household consumer debt in those days, compared to today?
What was our total government debt, vis-a-vis the GDP?
What was the average cost of shelter, as a percentage of the average household's income?
People said that in Reagan's day, because they knew where that Road to Hell led.
But, as Adam Smith noted, "There is a lot of ruin in a nation." Meaning, destruction of an originally-healthy society, takes time and many injuries.
Not saying there won't eventually be bad things happen because of the debt, but presidential detractors of all types have always been using the debt and deficit spending to attack with.
The point is that the potus' are just doing what anyone else would do in their position.
With the only dif being what the money is spent on.
.....but either way, it will still be spent and the debt increased.
Well, this time it's different.
Yeah, I know...that's always the assertion; but various stats bear it out. Also, history. Germany got to this point, and came out with a new leader, a strange little guy with a funny moustache.
Just one example, of a dozen or so. This time it's our turn in the barrel. Depending on what scenario you accept as realistic, we'll be like 1932 America, or like Medieval Times. Or a new sort of upheaval - read Michael Yon's comments to get another view of what might be coming.
Like, a Chin or other invasion. Yon claims the borders have quietly been re-opened - this time, not with NGOs flying in hominid animals, but with street-smart clever CCP operatives. Opening farming collectives far from the southern border. RAISING DOPE AND PROCESSING FENTANYL.
Bon apitit. We are definitely living in interesting times.
Yeah, I know...that's always the assertion; but various stats bear it out. Also, history. Germany got to this point, and came out with a new leader, a strange little guy with a funny moustache.
Just one example, of a dozen or so. This time it's our turn in the barrel. Depending on what scenario you accept as realistic, we'll be like 1932 America, or like Medieval Times. Or a new sort of upheaval - read Michael Yon's comments to get another view of what might be coming.
Like, a Chin or other invasion. Yon claims the borders have quietly been re-opened - this time, not with NGOs flying in hominid animals, but with street-smart clever CCP operatives. Opening farming collectives far from the southern border. RAISING DOPE AND PROCESSING FENTANYL.
Bon apitit. We are definitely living in interesting times.
Only way for it stop, is for Congress to quit spending.
I've always thought it odd that Congress is who actually spends the money, but everyone blames the POTUS for it.
It's almost as though most people have zero clue as to how our gov actually works.
Edited add: wasn't Trump impeached for trying to not spend money Congress already approved of?
I
- Messages
- 45,354
- Reaction score
- 7,663
- Points
- 288
Nah
President Donald Trump was impeached twice by the House of Representatives during his first term (2017–2021); the Senate acquitted him both times.
First impeachment (December 2019)
The House approved two articles of impeachment on December 18, 2019, largely along party lines.- Abuse of power: This charged that Trump used the powers of his office to solicit Ukraine’s interference in the 2020 U.S. presidential election. It centered on a July 25, 2019, phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in which Trump asked for investigations into (1) his potential political opponent, former Vice President Joe Biden (and his son Hunter Biden’s business dealings in Ukraine), and (2) a theory that Ukraine (rather than Russia) interfered in the 2016 U.S. election. The article alleged that Trump conditioned official acts—such as the release of nearly $400 million in congressionally appropriated military aid to Ukraine and a White House visit—on Ukraine publicly announcing those investigations, for personal political benefit rather than legitimate U.S. policy goals.
- Obstruction of Congress: This charged that Trump directed an unprecedented, categorical defiance of House subpoenas for documents and testimony during the impeachment inquiry, obstructing the investigation.
Second impeachment (January 2021)
The House approved one article of impeachment on January 13, 2021 (again largely along party lines), just days after the January 6 Capitol attack and shortly before the end of Trump’s term.- Incitement of insurrection: This charged that Trump engaged in high crimes and misdemeanors by inciting violence against the U.S. government. It referenced his repeated false claims of widespread fraud in the 2020 presidential election (which he lost to Joe Biden), efforts to overturn the results (including pressure on election officials), and statements/actions leading up to and on January 6, 2021. On that day, supporters of Trump stormed the Capitol while Congress was certifying the electoral votes; the article alleged his conduct encouraged and foreseeably resulted in lawless action that interfered with the peaceful transfer of power and threatened democratic institutions.
These are the formal reasons stated in the articles of impeachment adopted by the House. Trump is the only U.S. president to have been impeached twice.
Thanks for posting that.
So apparently he did.
It says right in your post that he didn't want to release money Congress had already appropriated for Ukraine.
He wanted to withold the money Congress already said to spend.
So that means that if Congress says spend, the POTUS has to spend it.
Ie: he has no real control over spending.
Therefore all deficit spending is a Congress problem, not a POTUS problem.
That's what your grandpap said when you were a kid, too.