RUMOR: Greece out of Eurozone?

[bushi]

..."in as orderly fashion, as it would be only possible":

http://www.examiner.com/internationa...f-the-eurozone

See this as you like it fit

On my part, I've heard some birds twittering about similar preparations going on here in Ireland. Better late than never, IMHO, and should be done together with letting the "too big to fail" fail, spectacularly. And maybe hang some of the most irresponsible ones to make a proper example.

cheers

[PMBug]

They should have followed Iceland's example a long time ago.

[ancona]

I agree Bug, Iceland told the bankers to go pound sand, and they did. They said that furthermore, since the general population of Iceland had absolutely nothing to do with the deals that went on inside their banks, and that the banks were private business enterprises, not national banks, that they held no duty to repay a private debt with public money. I feel the same way about the banks right here in the USA. Why the hell should I backstop bad decisions made by private, for profit institutions with my hard earned tax money.

What the fuck is that??? Oh...../that's right......it's corporate fascism.....the new normal.

[DoChenRollingBearing]

Hear, hear guys!

I am sick of seeing the taxpayers pick up the tab for bad bank decisions. Iceland did the right thing.

I wonder though... When Greece defaults, I think more will go wrong. And probably it will be very messy.

Maybe Ireland could pull it off "a la Iceland." Greece? I have my doubts.

[bushi]

I think they would very much try to avoid letting a precedence (they - you know whos), in that, the REAL TPTB, a.k.a. Moneychangers, would be in for a nasty dissapointment, if someone would pull Iceland on them ( I propose the new nickname for a "righteous default on banksters" - "pulling an Iceland") and othors WOULD certainly follow. Problem is, that would be in the middle of Europe, instead of the middle of nowhere (OK, middle of North Atlantic ), and it would be very, very difficult to masquerade, how GOOD it would be for the Greek people/economy, in the mid-term, to just default on bank/national debts. Thus they will try to pull every stunt possible, before letting it happened. Question remains, what options there really are left on the table. Not many, in reality. And even when they default, they will get punished as severely by banksters as humanly possible, to set an example, how bad it is to default on us, booo!

Although, I still think, it will happened (if they manage their abrakadabra and kick the greek can down the road, it will be just some other country - probably Portugal is on the cardsnext, and maybe even France), and when it happens, it is going to be very nasty, indeed...

[DCFusor]

Greece is toast, and unless someone declares a general debt jubilee, so are the dominoes - so of course, that's what they will scramble to do in some form. Remember that interactive graphic about who owns whose debt? Total cluster fsk. At some point, even the ECB isn't going to take total toilet paper as collateral for their cheap 3 year money.

In related news, this ZH article title says it all.
landmark-case-greek-court-writes-employed-bank-customers-debt

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/landma...customers-debt

They're pushing the failure attitude right up to the very wall - it's over, they're not repenting, just wait for the plop sound.

Portugal, Spain, Italy - France not likely, but in that order. Ireland will get special treatment. You heard it here first. Japan in there somewhere - ask Kyle Bass, he's right - again. Who would have thought that all you need to do is keep awake while reading endless boring financial reports so you know the actual numbers to have a huge information asymmetry advantage? Go Kyle. Hopefully most of us have seen "Come undone", right? He's not talking trash, or his book there. Just the real numbers, honestly researched, that most don't know.

Yeah, "pulling an Iceland" is a good one. When your private banking system runs up some huge 2 digit multiple of your GDP in "bad financial engineering" and you're a tiny country with "no" productivity and everyone knows it - it's a no brainer. And no one is going to blame you - they'll be doing business with you again in a week. If some larger, more productive country pulled that - they'd be world pariahs for quite awhile. Except for one thing - Iceland didn't "pull" anything - they did nothing. That's it - they just didn't do anything, and let the chips fall.

UK....laxer finance rules (rehypothection is nothing compared to what they do), worse situation if you follow the numbers - but they have us at their back BB will print for them if required. Note how they refused to join in that last batch of EU junk because it would require them to uniformalize their bank regs with the rest of EU?

They had some real good reasons to refuse, despite it costing them a lot of prestige and friendship. I'd suggest people looking into the frauds and just stupid financial engineering going on there - it's much worse than it ever was here. Please include mark to unicorn in that work. They even "fix" the price of gold right out in public (and yes, I know that's a joke - or is it?).

[suibhne]

Bushi, I heard a while back that our Irish government was printing the Punt again in secret but there is of course no concrete proof of that. In all honesty I'd be very surprised if they had thought that far ahead and were considering leaving the Euro at all. Given Kennys (and others) desire to kiss European ass all the time, it seems they'd pretty much do anything they can to please their IMF/EU/ECB over lords and stay in the Euro no matter how much austerity that forces on us citizens.

[bushi]

Given Kennys (and others) desire to kiss European ass all the time, it seems they'd pretty much do anything they can to please their IMF/EU/ECB over lords (...).

...unless... it is on the orders of these same overlords, who'd decided that the most has been already achieved (banks' bondholders arse secured in every mean conceivable, huge debts taken on the economy/taxpayers to cover private loses, debt that will need to be repayed one way or another), so there is no point in keeping peasants on the euro leash anymore, especially that it fails on its own. And who knows what "debt restructuring" would be agreed upon, if Ireland switched back to Punt. I strongly suspect, they'd demand it to be paid back in Euros, so for them, devaluation of the Punt would meant nothing. For Ireland, that would be a disaster (devaluation of the local currency, while debts taken on people would be repaid in Euro), total economical enslavement for generations to come.

I do not think for a single minute, that our puppet governments do ANYTHING without coming to a heel of their financial overlords at the request. If you think about it: politicians know one thing, and one thing ONLY: how to get & then cling to power, by kissing all the arses above their heads, and looking & talking smart in the telly. They do not have a CLUE about ANYTHING else. That is their profession. Quite often, passed through generations, nowadays.

So, you don't even need the conspiracy theory; when faced with an enormous difficulty, "who you gonna call", Ghostbusters? Nah, they will do meetings, commissions, committees - and order REPORTS to be made for them. But made by whom? Me, you, or some other shmock? Nah... by PROFESSIONALS, who live & breathe the stuff, ie Banksters themselves.

Bunch of spineless, brainless retards.

[suibhne]

Couldn't agree more, and hopefully you're right about them wanting to ditch us. As bad as it would be in some levels to be out of the Euro, I'd still rather go back to the Punt and ideally out of the EU altogether..

[DCFusor]

They should probably just "pull an Iceland" and go back to being a nice tax haven for high tech business. But I kinda doubt they'll do it, due to the influence of money on the pols. That disease seems to be worldwide.

[bushi]

They should probably just "pull an Iceland" and go back to being a nice tax haven for high tech business

I do not even know, if it is not too late to unwind all the crap that has been taken on: roughly €80bn has been borrowed by the govt to just recapitalize banks (which, as of today, are still limping and are at the brink of collapse, disease spreading to banks that were previously quite sound and solid - ie "people bank" AIB - moral hazard, anyone?), so even if they pull the brakes now - what about all that money, that has been borrowed in the name of Irish taxpayer? Just tell them creditors to take a hike? That is much worse, than just say in 2008: "these are private, not state-owned banks, Irish people are not responsible for the loses nor mismanagement of any company, that happens to have a headquarters here, why are you coming to us and wail, if you were stupid enough to recklessly lend your money to recklessly lending companies, well, go and take a hike!"

[PMBug]

All three party leaders in Greece’s teetering national unity government have opposed new austerity measures demanded by international lenders, forcing eurozone finance ministers to postpone approval of a new €130bn bail-out and moving the country closer to a full-blown default.

Representatives of the so-called “troika” – the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund – have demanded further cuts in government jobs and severe reductions in Greek salaries, including an immediate 25 per cent cut in the €750 minimum monthly wage, before agreeing the new rescue.
...
Without approval of the new bail-out within a matter of days, Athens is at risk of defaulting on a €14.5bn bond that comes due on March 20. Many eurozone officials fear such a default could reignite panic in European bond markets, pushing Italy and Spain back into danger.
...

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/76b31...#axzz1lW7ydnEY

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly - Duel - YouTube

The Good, The Bad and the Ugly - Duel - YouTube

[ancona]

Expect them to try and last out the week, then default anyway.

[DoChenRollingBearing]

My GUESS?

Same old, same old for a few more weeks. Greece has been dragging this out a year now. Seems every other weekend is "make or break". I expect more can kicking, which will work barely OK.

Until it doesn't.

We have two friends in Italy, a mother and daughter. They have money, but they are scared...

[ancona]

The rumor mill is running hot this morning, with a ZH article now talking openly about a Greek default. If they simply step out of the union and revert to the Drachma, that is technically not a default, but it will have the same effect. Sovereign CDS may not trigger, but faith in those instruments will certainly take a giant hit. In addition, as goes Greece, so goes Portugal, Spain, Ireland and Italy.

It's all just a matter of time really. The banksters will finally get their comeuppance.

[ancona]

Germany is now planning for the eventual Greek 'pull-out'. If the Greeks have any cojones whatsoever, they would tell the IMF and ECB to take a flying fuck at a rolling donut, and to get teh hell out of our sovereign nation. They should tell them to take their banker puppet boy with them and don't let teh door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Got Drachmas?

[rblong2us]

I expect a bail out regardless, as its now dawned on the pols and banksters that its all or nothing.

With the Fed supporting the EBC with 'swaps' they really cannot let any part of the house of cards fail.

Everything we see regarding the greek bailout, is politics for the various voting populations

Reckon on a genuine black swan event to generate the final collapse, as anything we might discuss will have been thought about and 'covered'

from - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/schaeu...escue-portugal

In an incredibly candid 'informal' discussion caught on video by Portugal's TVi24 television crew, German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble gives Portuguese finance minister Vitor Gaspar 'the nod' that after the Greek deal is done, Germany will relax the conditions of the financial assistance program for Portugal.