Instead of being cute, with cryptic references, why don't you show me, STRAIGHT OUT of the United States Code or CFR, the procedures for opting out of FICA
Did I say opt out, or did I say don't volunteer to begin with?
Why don't you show me how an employee can refuse to provide a social-security number and be put on a payroll.
It depends on how badly a company wants to hire you.
At this point, 85 years into it, prolly no company is going to want to do things differently for one worker with no special skills.
Especially if they can just hire the next guy on the applicant list to get the same work done.
....but seeing as you asked, there is this from the Texas Workforce Commission on verification of SS#'s.
Notice that it is a .gov website.
"Every once in a while, you may encounter a would-be employee who, for one reason or another, not only does not have a social security card, but refuses to show you one, or else claims not to have a social security number at all
"The IRS actually provides a procedure for employers and employees to use if such a situation occurs and the employer still wishes to hire the individual; the procedure is described in detail on its Web site at https://www.irs.gov/individuals/int...iling-forms-w-2-and-1042-s-without-payee-tins("Filing Forms W-2 and 1042-S Without Payee TIN's"), and involves the use of an affidavit
That'd be the form P-1 affidavit I mentionned.
TWC also goes on to advise companies not
choosing to hire someone without a SS# to not tell them the reason why, so as to avoid "legal action" for their decision.
"In the case of employees who refuse outright to furnish a social security number, and the employer decides not to hire the employee, it would be well-advised to take advantage of its right not to explain why an applicant is not being hired. To explain would only invite legal action.
Casey, why would admitting to not wanting to hire based on an applicant not having a number, open a company to a lawsuit?
If there were a blanket requirement that all applicants must have a SS# in order to be hired, such a case brought would be declared as frivolous by the court, and dismissed.
Ie: there would be no danger to the company. Yet the TWC.gov advises that there could be? Why would they say such a thing if it weren't true?
If things were truly as you think, there would be no possibility of being sued for refusing to hire someone lacking the legal requirements for being hired.
Why don't you show me where a person can work for wages, and either file taxes without a SSN or not file, legally
if you don't have a SS#, why would you want to file an income tax return? You have to have a number to do that.
You don't file, you go to prison for non-payment.
Yes, but only if you already had a liability requiring you to file, and you did not.
....but if you already took action to create a liability, it would in fact be a crime to not file a return relative to that previously existing liability.
Ie: if you actually owe the tax, yes it would be a mistake not to file. Everyone should pay whatever it is they are liable for.
This is an asinine discussion. The only worthwhile thing to glean out of this, is how needlessly convoluted and complex are Federal regulations and laws.
Oh yes, they are very much so that. The complexity of the regs is what keeps people on the easy path of volunteering to put what amounts to a gov ring in their noses in order to be led along by.
Show me ONE case, court ruling or example, where your INTERPRETATION of this spider-web of laws has been accepted as valid.
If ya do it right, you'll never see a court.
One thing that troubles and annoys me, is this belief in Magic Words.
When did I ever say it comes down to that?
It's fact that the form P-1 is real. The irs accepts them.
Can you have a #, but then lie about it and file the affidavit anyways and expect to have nothing happen to you? No. A person would be stupid to do that.
Look Casey, I am not saying that any of this is easy, or should even be attempted by those not fully versed in how it all works.
All I am saying is that there is obviously not a blanket requirement for all Americans to have SS#.
That it is a voluntary gov program. More specifically, it is a tax that one volunteers to pay.
Ie: no mandate exists requiring those who do not want gov benefits, to get one.