Premiums rising for physical silver (and gold)

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It was just a couple days ago that The Doc @ SilverDoctors posted a note about BullionDirect having problems and wherein he stated:
Now it appears there is indeed some tightness going on:
http://www.silverdoctors.com/physic...g-at-the-potential-of-2008-style-pm-premiums/

Now I wish I had been maintaining that Apmex inventory/premium spreadsheet/thread like I used to do.
 

More: http://srsroccoreport.com/has-the-g...run-on-silver-begun-shortages-on-the-horizon/
 
About four and a half bucks an ounce per Eagle at Apmex for less than twenty. That's some fat premium!
 
So I did a quick check. Last time I checked the Apmex inventory/premiums was December 2013:
So it's been a month since I last did an update on this. I decided to take look today ...

The following report details the status as of 12/19 @ ~8am:
  • 10 ozt gold bars - 110
  • 1 ozt gold bars - 3146
  • 100 ozt silver bars - 1752
...

As of 7/9 @ ~10:30am:
  • 10 ozt gold bars - 70
  • 1 ozt gold bars - 3054
  • 100 ozt silver bars - 702
Premiums were more or less the same as they were 12/2013. Inventories are down from the last check, but in line with where they were in July 2013. I'm not seeing the tightness mentioned above in Apmex listings (yet?).
 
Sure seems like that the price adjusted with premiums isn't falling as nearly fast as spot. I guess those fat juicy premiums they are charging with the low prices make it less enticing to buy, at least for me.
 
The Doc is at it again - sounding the warning bell on rising premiums in the silver market:
... The only time premiums across the board for retail silver products were higher than they are right now was during the 2008 take-down of gold and silver. ...

http://www.silverdoctors.com/fund-m...-doc-retail-silver-supplies-are-disappearing/

That's a pretty bold statement. So, I checked Apmex current offerings for 100oz silver bars and the premiums are still pretty much in line with where they have been for years - around $0.99 / ounce over spot. I didn't check inventory numbers. 90% silver however does seem to have a high premium - $5.99 /ounce over spot.
 
Six bucks over is 39.19% premium. I would say that is a healthy premium my friend.
 
So, The Doc has been warning about tightness in the wholesale markets for retail silver products. Bron Suchecki wrote a piece a while back arguing that such tightness usually indicates bottlenecks in the minting process(es) and are not indicative of real supply issues. Now it looks like we are seeing reports of tightness in the bullion markets that indicate true supply issues (with gold at least):
http://gata.org/node/15694
 
BoE annual report indicates that London gold vaults are losing their gold inventories:
More:
 
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The Doc interviews the CEO of Sunshine Mint:

http://www.silverdoctors.com/silver-shortage-us-mint-silver-eagle-sunshine-mint-tom-power/
 
My LCS still has some product, although he has more gold than silver. As for his silver, he has more junk than anything else. The thing is though, he keeps raising his premiums. Folks keep buying the stuff and he keeps on raising his premiums. He says the supply lines are tighter than a ducks ass, and they are getting tighter. He buys whenever he can, and pays whatever he has to. Then, he passes what premiums he has to pay for on to us.
 
Even checking out comparesilverprices.com premiums on generic silver ~2 bucks/ozt and eagles just over $4/ozt and maple's just under $4/ozt.
 
I was just at Apmex. I looked at the prices for ASE's and saw that the CC price for one ASE was 21.30 without shipping, handling, insurance or anything. Just the purchase price. The current bid for silver spot is $14.59, which makes the delta for a credit card purchased American Silver Eagle $6.71. That is a very healthy 45.99%over spot my friends, very healthy indeed.

Now, that comes down significantly if you are buying more than a few eagles, but premiums are still in historic territory, and they don't look to come down any time soon.
 

based on 35.27 ounces per kilo, this seems to work out to 14.37 an ounce.
http://www.silver.com/1-kilo-rmc-silver-bars/
I may have done the math wrong.....
 
Following up on post #10, more smoke about the depletion of London's gold inventories:
 
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IF you think the current $4.00 premium on a CSM is crazy, I looked at the 90% silver dollars which have a current scrap value of $11.29 are demanding $24 for CULL coins! the decent shape ones are $25-$30+ right now. You could buy 11 dimes which would give you just a bit more silver than a silver dollar (~.022ozt) for about $17-$18, or just buy an ASE/CSM for $18-$19. If collector value is a large part of why silver dollars are so high, I just don't see it with the cull coins, as you are paying almost the same price for a cull coin vs. avg circulated coin. I never understand a lot of people. Like I always used to say, the more people I meet, the more I like my dog, and I shot my dog.
 
Bron says all is well:
More: http://research.perthmint.com.au/2015/09/14/who-is-the-player-and-who-is-being-played/
 
I agree with Turd that the Comex numbers are largely meaningless which is why I stopped paying attention to them some time ago. I really don't care for the personal attacks and haughty "gold bugs are idiots" attitude that I see from Bron, KD, Trader Dan, et. al. on the one side and similar and opposite tin foil hat shrieking I see from the other. If they have some relevant facts, information or arguments to present to people, it can be done without the insults. $.02
 
ASE's right now are carrying a ~$5 premium, CSM's are a bit better at ~$3.50 for the best prices shown on compare silver prices dot com.
 
It is important to know that acquiring Gold will allow our savings not to be devalued, we are talking about a cryptocurrency that allows the acquisition of the precious metal.
 
* {super} bump *

Silver is dirt cheap right now. People are apparently buying physical again. The temporary sell out of Silver Eagles has sparked a jump in premiums on silver across the board.

I read this morning where someone claimed that premiums over spot for 90% silver dimes (Roosevelts) were $1.99 while the premiums for 90% silver quarters (Washingtons) were $0.99 at Apmex and that this might be indicative of supply constraints in the wholesale/dealer market. But when I checked just now, I see the premiums for both at $1.99.

Either the initial report was mistaken, or Apmex updated their pricing on the quarters within the last 24 hours or so. Either way, if the spot price of silver stays this low, we might see junk silver becoming difficult to source once again.

Ah... memories:

... 90% silver however does seem to have a high premium - $5.99 /ounce over spot.
 
Hearing more rumors about tightening supply in the wholesale market for 90% silver. 90% silver is the canary in the coal mine with respect to the physical market IMO. They don't make it any more and what little supply exists that actually gets traded around disappears when the public gets serious about buying silver (as we experienced circa 2010-2011 when silver was heading to $50/oz).
 
* COVID 19 bump *

I'm seeing a lot of online metal dealers warning of long shipping times due to large order volume.

Some retailers (Provident, JM Bullion) seem to running out of stock on 90% silver.
 

https://www.jmbullion.com/jm-bullion-update-3-13-20/
 

https://www.texmetals.com/news/important-update-3-12-2020/

 
Also seeing a couple of online dealers calling the demand "unprecedented".

Below is a statement from Goldcore CEO:

Note that he states that premiums will start increasing for those *selling to* Goldcore. Did that happen back in 2008-2011 on the "sell to dealer" transaction?

 
...
Note that he states that premiums will start increasing for those *selling to* Goldcore. Did that happen back in 2008-2011 on the "sell to dealer" transaction?

Yes. Premiums rose on both the buy/sell sides of a deal. Of course dealers made a vig, but it's a business. It was especially noticeable on products like 90% junk (which no one is making anymore, so ...).
 
Bug, didn't you keep a spreadsheet on premiums back in the 2008 era? Might be interesting to do a spot check see how this eras premiums are comparing so far to back then.

And do you recall if the "sell to" premium rose to as much as 10% on silver eagles?
 
Yeah, it's been years since I kept up the premium watch, but I'll have a look tomorrow (don't have time right now) and update the old thread.

I recall that both the buy and sell to premiums on ASEs rose disproportionately to all other forms of silver as the US Mint couldn't keep up with demand and dealers were desperate to shore up inventory to take advantage of buying demand. The US Market prefers ASEs in a crisis (at least, it did circa 2008).
 

https://www.texmetals.com/news/demand-shock-the-forces-behind-rising-premiums/

I think he's slightly overstating the issue. If dealers were as desperate as he claims, they would be raising their "buy from the public" prices/premiums too (which they might have in the last day or two since I last checked around, but as of my last survey, it wasn't the case).
 
The last time I updated my spreadsheet on Apmex inventories and premiums was roughly 7 years ago (found here).

I was shocked by what I saw this morning:
  • 10 ozt gold bars - Zero inventory. Few items offered for "pre-sale" on expected future inventory. Premiums ranged from $47.8 to $97.8 over spot
  • 1 ozt gold bars - Zero inventory. Few items offered for "pre-sale" on expected future inventory. Premiums ranged from $50 to $80 over spot
  • 100 ozt silver bars - Zero inventory. Few items offered for "pre-sale" on expected future inventory. Premiums ranged from $4.49 to $5.49 over spot

Unfortunately, my spreadsheet only tracked inventory over time. I have premiums recorded for my last update which was circa January 2014. Premiums now are much higher across the board.
 


A little bit over the top? Or are we there yet?


https://realmoney.thestreet.com/inv...on-playing-out-in-the-silver-markets-15268913

I managed to score a little bit of gold and silver at my LCS over the last couple of days. I've bought metal at lower price points, but I'm not sweating the deals I got. At least I was able to buy some.
 
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This is likely to exacerbate the shock to the physical markets:
https://www.mint.ca/store/mint/cust...en_CA&rcmiid=tf|tb|covid19&PageSpeed=noscript

I wonder if other mints are similarly scaling back or halting production.
 
Not sure what descriptor to use for this situation. Fascinating? Intriguing? Devastating?

Looks like the Austrian Mint has also closed temporarily. Having a tough time finding any other mints that have suspended production.

https://www.muenzeoesterreich.at/eng

 
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