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Old 01-24-2014, 08:43 PM   #61
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...sh-withdrawals

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Bank-Run Fears Continue; HSBC Restricts Large Cash Withdrawals
Quote :
HSBC is imposing restrictions on large cash withdrawals raising a number of red flags. The BBC reports that some HSBC customers have been prevented from withdrawing large amounts of cash because they could not provide evidence of why they wanted it. HSBC admitted it has not informed customers of the change in policy, which was implemented in November
HSBC's reasoning doesn't sound bad. But it is surprising they would change their policy without being required to and not inform the public about it, especially because as ZH explains it's also coming at a time they've been shown to have a serious capital shortfall because of stuff in China. Hmm...
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Old 01-25-2014, 05:16 AM   #62
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This has been a general approach in the UK for several years.

Banks are obliged to notify HMRC of cash transactions above about £2k ( I dont know the exact amount ) and a reason for the transaction. This includes cash payments into your bank.
You could always write cheques for whatever your balance will cover and they will happily do bankers draft thingies if you are buying a vehicle or something that requires certainty of payment at the moment of transaction.

Banks here do not generally carry large amounts of cash in anticapion of big number withdrawals so they require notice (and reason ) if cash is required.
I dont think this means there is a shortage of cash but it certainly does not encourage its use for larger transactions.

Its rather typical of ZH to use this kind of information in an attempt to promote concern in an unrelated situation .....
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
This has been a general approach in the UK for several years.

Banks are obliged to notify HMRC of cash transactions above about £2k ( I dont know the exact amount ) and a reason for the transaction. This includes cash payments into your bank.
You could always write cheques for whatever your balance will cover and they will happily do bankers draft thingies if you are buying a vehicle or something that requires certainty of payment at the moment of transaction.

Banks here do not generally carry large amounts of cash in anticapion of big number withdrawals so they require notice (and reason ) if cash is required.
I dont think this means there is a shortage of cash but it certainly does not encourage its use for larger transactions.

Its rather typical of ZH to use this kind of information in an attempt to promote concern in an unrelated situation .....
That's generally been my experience too that >2k cash can be an issue.

But ZH did get the story from the BBC who surprisingly seem to be treating it in same sort of way

Quote :
HSBC imposes restrictions on large cash withdrawals
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717

Quote :
Money Box asked other banks what their policy is on large cash withdrawals. They all said they reserved the right to ask questions about large cash withdrawals. But none of them said they would require evidence of what the money was being used for before paying out.
So looks like it was only HSBC who started the evidence thing, they seem to have said they're reversing it now, will have to wait and see...
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:36 AM   #64
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The entire point of the article is that indeed these are "demand deposits" and one should never have to justify to the bank, government or anyone else for that matter, what they want their own money for. If they want to require some minimal amount of pre-notice so they can have cash on hand then so be it, but if I have saved up a hundred thousand dollars, and want to have eighty thousand dollars in cash, it's none of their fucking business what it is for. I've earned this money, it's mine and now I want it back, that's why motherfuckers!

This is just another in a long line of examples over the recent years of the worlds governments trying to demonize cash and move to paperless money. If they make us look like criminals for having cash, and if they go all paperless, then taxes can be extracted far more easily than if reporting is by the "honor system" so to speak.
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:50 AM   #65
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yeah, its a bit odd that the Beeb ran it as a scare but they seem to be shifting just a little ......

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this weeks 'Book of ther Week' - all about Gold
and written by someone who seems to 'get it '. In last nights episode he talked about the gold shifting east and closed with the thought that gold can be relied on when paper fails.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006...pisodes/player

And yes Ancona, I agree its more about getting us to run cashless than a shortage of linen and ink.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:07 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
I thoroughly enjoyed listening to this weeks 'Book of ther Week' - all about Gold
and written by someone who seems to 'get it '. In last nights episode he talked about the gold shifting east and closed with the thought that gold can be relied on when paper fails.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006...pisodes/player
I tried your link, but I can't find any way to listen to it, although from the hype on the page it seems like something worth listening to.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:36 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by mmerlinn View Post:
I tried your link, but I can't find any way to listen to it, although from the hype on the page it seems like something worth listening to.
hey mmerlin, Im not much use when it comes to computer button poking
all I can say is that it works for me ............

Perhaps the individual links to the 5 episodes will work better -

Episode 1 was fascinating as he described going down as deep as it gets, at 42 ft per second ! and how theres a whole underworld of thieves who live down the mines and extract and sometimes even refine and smelt in disused parts of the mines. ( only 2 days left to listen )
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03kpnjq

Episode 2 described how a relatively small army of conquistadors managed to control a vast army of Inca ( or was it Aztec ? ) by capturing their god/king and how he offered them gold ( which they saw only as decorative ) in exchange for his freedom ....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03kqdzw

Episode 3 was about Nixon closing the gold window and its effects
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03ktz05

4. China currently mines more gold than any country, and everyone wants a part of it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03ktz05

5- Even in the 21st century, gold-dealing remains an archaic practice.( 6 days left to listen) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03kv6kz

All really interesting and a lot of facts I didnt know.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:55 PM   #68
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This seems like a genuine glitch, I think Lloyds is busy changing over some of their accounts at the moment, and these kind of things do happen periodically here but still...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...s-stop-working

Quote :
Sky reports that customers of Lloyds and TSB, as well as those with Halifax, have reported difficulties paying for goods in shops and getting money out of ATMs.
Quote :
All three banks are under the Lloyds Banking Group which said: "We are aware that some customers are unable to use their debit cards either to make purchases or to withdraw money from ATMs. "We are working hard to resolve this as swiftly as possible and apologise for any inconvenience caused."
Quote :
Helen Needham ‏said: "#lloyds bank having problems with there card service... Can't pay for anything or get money out!"

Another Twitter user wrote: "This problem is also affecting Halifax debit cards as I found out trying to pay for lunch with my wife!"

And Jane Lucy Jones tweeted Halifax, saying: "Why can't I get any money out of any cashpoints, what is going on?
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Old 01-26-2014, 03:07 PM   #69
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Bird in the hand, folks. Bird in the hand.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:44 PM   #70
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http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/01/chi...ash-transfers/

Quote :
China halts bank cash transfers
Quote :
In short, there will be a three-day suspension of domestic renminbi transfers. There will also be a suspension, spanning nine calendar days, of conversions of renminbi to foreign currency.
Quote :
The specific reason given—“system maintenance” at the central bank—is preposterous. It is not credible that during the highest usage period in the year—the weeklong Lunar New Year holiday beginning January 31—the central bank would schedule an upgrade and shut down cash transfers
Um maybe I missed something, first I heard about this, but maybe I have not been paying attention or it's not true, or it's related to something else that's over-hyped?
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:52 PM   #71
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Banks are evidently scrambling for cash. They have, in the past, resorted to desperate maneuvers at the ends of calendar quarters to meet regulatory requirements. The current crunch is even more alarming because it cannot be occurring for quarter-end reasons.

Something is very wrong in China at the moment. Banks’ apparent need to conserve cash, coming just weeks after the last incident, looks ominous.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonch...h-transfers-2/
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rblong2us View Post:
hey mmerlin, Im not much use when it comes to computer button poking
all I can say is that it works for me ............

Perhaps the individual links to the 5 episodes will work better -
I had tried all of them before I wrote the last post. For some reason can't listen to any of them.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:12 AM   #73
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Apparently the above China story I quoted is fake...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ransfers-china

Some of the responses in the comments section are still not sure though, as it seems the first reply saying 'and now ZH was spoofed' was apparently removed.

Who knows maybe this is the big one. Global bank holiday coming in 5,4,3,2,1...
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Old 01-27-2014, 07:34 AM   #74
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People are certainly getting very nervous. Everyone seems to be waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:28 AM   #75
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Looks like the markets are getting spooked:
Quote :
Earlier this week 30-day/4-wk T-Bills were auctioned off a 0% rate. Intra-day, after the auction, the rate went negative. Negative short term rates were last observed in 2008, before the Lehman/AIG/Goldman collapse occurred. Of course, Lehman was allowed to implode and Goldman, who's ex-CEO was the Treasury Secretary, was bailed out. AIG was the beneficiary of that bailout because Goldman had impaled itself on AIG nuclear waste.

The point here is that negative T-bill rates only occur when very big investors are concerned about the return OF their money and not the return on their money. Think about what a negative T-bill rate means. It means that someone is paying more for the T-bill than they get in return when it matures a few weeks later. Why would someone do that? It's the "safest" place to park large sums of cash.

A big institutional fund or very wealthy investor pays for a T-bill because they they see something which indicates that the risk of the Government defaulting in the next four weeks is less than the risk of parking that money in a bank or a money market fund. We're talking millions and tens of millions in short term money. Bank deposits are insured only up to a small amount. After 2008, it has been decided that money market funds will no longer be bailed out by the Government/Fed.

In other words, big big investors with cash that needs to be parked are seeing something that gives them concern about the financial system. The negative rates on T-bills means that whatever was spooking big money in 2008 is spooking it again. My best guess right now is that there is massive risk of derivatives default. This would be the derivatives that blew up the system in 2008 but that the Fed/Government quickly monetized. The problem was never fixed, contrary to Obama's recent end zone dance on the safety of the banking system.
...
More: http://truthingold.blogspot.com/2014...ing-at-us.html

Quote :
These credit/currency related crises that we have experienced since 2008 all have produced the same thing after the market begins to sift through the details - a DEFLATIONARY reaction.

By that I mean a rush into the relative safety of US Treasuries out of equities. The result is a drop in interest rates as investors seek return OF capital and not necessarily return ON capital.

In the process, the Japanese Yen has tended to be the recipient of inflows. I am still unclear as to why anyone would regard the Yen as a safe haven currency but I suspect it might have more to do with Yen carry trades being unwound which puts upward pressure on the funding currency as those trades are reversed.

...

... This late session recovery in the US Dollar and further downward movement in equities is actually bringing deflation fears back to traders' minds and as those fears strengthen ( at least for this immediate moment) gold is fading lower along with silver and copper and the other metals.
http://traderdannorcini.blogspot.com...ng-market.html

Sounds like the Fed is going to have justification for MOAR QE, since it appears that the banking system hasn't quite got all their bail-in mechanisms in place yet. Or maybe we are approaching the event horizon for the great bail-in.
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Old 01-27-2014, 08:07 PM   #76
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If there was going to be a mass bail-in/wealth tax that needed to be orchestrated on a global scale, where would those decisions be finalised?

I think they would have to be finalised somewhere like Davos.
I also think once they were finalised that they would have to happen pretty quickly otherwise the news would leak out.

So even though the Chinese news story was apparently not as serious as reported, and I don't think they're planning to do anything this year, this weekend is still 'on my radar.'
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:21 AM   #77
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...sh-withdrawals

Quote :
Via Bloomberg,

Lender has introduced complete ban on cash withdrawals until end of week, news agency reports, citing unidentified person in call center.

Bank spokeswoman declined to comment by phone

My Bank is top 200 lender by assets: Prime
My Bank is only in top 200 in Russia so it may not mean much really, I didn't even know there were 200+ banks in any country, I think UK has less than 20-50 total, but not sure.

Last edited by Unbeatable; 01-28-2014 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:36 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Unbeatable View Post:
If there was going to be a mass bail-in/wealth tax that needed to be orchestrated on a global scale, where would those decisions be finalised?
...
I think a lot of the strategic stuff (basic frameworks, goals) is likely hashed out in forums like Davos and the G-8/G-20, hence the water testing in Cyprus while nations get their bail in frameworks legalized, but I suspect that crisis management happens over the phone or conference calls.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:36 AM   #79
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I'm actually starting to get a little bit nervous about this bail-in idea. Besides my personal pile, my firm has all of our operating cash in a couple of accounts that would be subject to this taking.

Opening fifteen or twenty 100K accounts is unfeasible, and even if we did, "they" would probably rule that it doesn't matter because we're a single entity and not entitled to protection under the hundred thousand dollar "per account" threshold.

These4 are some truly sick bastards coming up with this shit. I predict heads on a stick if this comes to fruition here, since there are far too many folks with guns and far too many people with little to lose by taking definitive action.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:52 AM   #80
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ancona, I think you "mis-underestmate" how slick they'd be at this.
No point stealing from the "just getting by" poor, who have "nothing to lose." We already have a ton of those, and they're not taking up arms as is, screwed as they already are.

How many people with "nothing to lose" - even after having their money stolen, do you know who have "fieldcraft" in the sniper sense, and are in good shape physically, enough to do what you suggest? For example, you have a kid - would you die in the attempt to make a marginal difference (at best), and leave her fatherless? To make a real noticeable difference, it's hundreds that would have to be taken out, at a minimum. I don't see that happening, and I see zero chance of organization that would make that possible due to NSA snooping - that's what it's for, after all - should be obvious. The actions they are taking are those of a government afraid of just that, not one afraid of foreign powers and invasion - that should be obvious to anyone who can analyze what's going on, what's been revealed that there is no doubt about.

We'd still be a colony of England had they had what the NSA/FBI/3 letter others have now, and are using now to ID malcontents who might actually be a threat. We cannot hang together, so we are doomed to hang separately, as one of the founders said.

Do you think they'll target SEALs and snipers/rangers? Kinda doubt most of them have a ton of dough. And of course, they won't target themselves, who do have most of the money.

In other words, I think you're an optimist, though I'm glad there are still some out there!
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